4 ms·

The particular problem that article is talking about is one in the PRC, not extending to Taiwan. As I understand it, orders came from on high (by definition th

by hga 12y ago

The particular problem that article is talking about is one in the PRC, not extending to Taiwan. As I understand it, orders came from on high (by definition the Communist Party of China) driving this. Which is not to say the "publish or perish" problem isn't endemic, and that we can safely assume Taiwan is about as bad as any other "normal", non-cargo cult science country.

gwern 12y ago
Because Taiwan is so close to the PRC, in every sense of the word, you have to worry. Has the Taiwanese government been enacting China-like policies? When researchers return to Taiwan, do they bring with them corrupt practices? Or even just beliefs in evaluating researchers by publication count? Do the revelations about Chinese papers encourage Taiwanese researchers to try their own hand at it, and normalize it? Are there any underlying cultural factors which might be the same in both countries? And so on. > that we can safely assume Taiwan is about as bad as any other "normal", non-cargo cult science country. I wouldn't say that. For example, there's a strikingly consistent observation that close to 100% of acupuncture experiments succeed when they are done in East Asia (which is pretty much impossible for any effect size) despite rates halving when you move out of the region; is the placebo effect that much stronger in East Asia, or does this reflect investigator bias / incentives to get positive results by any means etc?
- nknighthb 12y ago
  My experiences with the business climates of Taiwan and China suggest to me that the set of "senses" you and I have associated with the word "close" must be vastly different.
  - seanmcdirmid 12y ago
    The universities are set up similarly, many of China's flagship universities exist in both PRC and ROC (e.g. Qinghua). In other aspects, Taiwan is closer to Japanese culture (or so I hear, I've never stepped foot in ROC before).
    - taejo 12y ago
      While there is a Qinghua/Tsing Hua university in both, they're competing rather than coöperating organisations, as far as I can tell.
      - seanmcdirmid 12y ago
        Yep, but same roots.
  - beachstartup 12y ago
    why use critical thinking and actually go to these places, when a little bit of casual racism will do quite nicely instead?

by hga 12y ago

gwern 12y ago

Because Taiwan is so close to the PRC, in every sense of the word, you have to worry. Has the Taiwanese government been enacting China-like policies? When researchers return to Taiwan, do they bring with them corrupt practices? Or even just beliefs in evaluating researchers by publication count? Do the revelations about Chinese papers encourage Taiwanese researchers to try their own hand at it, and normalize it? Are there any underlying cultural factors which might be the same in both countries? And so on. > that we can safely assume Taiwan is about as bad as any other "normal", non-cargo cult science country. I wouldn't say that. For example, there's a strikingly consistent observation that close to 100% of acupuncture experiments succeed when they are done in East Asia (which is pretty much impossible for any effect size) despite rates halving when you move out of the region; is the placebo effect that much stronger in East Asia, or does this reflect investigator bias / incentives to get positive results by any means etc?

nknighthb 12y ago
My experiences with the business climates of Taiwan and China suggest to me that the set of "senses" you and I have associated with the word "close" must be vastly different.
- seanmcdirmid 12y ago
  The universities are set up similarly, many of China's flagship universities exist in both PRC and ROC (e.g. Qinghua). In other aspects, Taiwan is closer to Japanese culture (or so I hear, I've never stepped foot in ROC before).
  - taejo 12y ago
    While there is a Qinghua/Tsing Hua university in both, they're competing rather than coöperating organisations, as far as I can tell.
    - seanmcdirmid 12y ago
      Yep, but same roots.
- beachstartup 12y ago
  why use critical thinking and actually go to these places, when a little bit of casual racism will do quite nicely instead?