58 ms·

The Government Once Built Silicon Valley

89 points by sgy 12y ago

Uhhrrr 12y ago
I had to scroll down 7 comments (on the TC site) to find someone who wasn't pointing out inaccuracies in this article.
- sgy 12y ago
  You can please some of the people, some of the time
  - SahAssar 12y ago
    "1 billion consumers worldwide will enter the middle class in the next 15 years – 80% of this growth will be outside of the U.S." Saying that 200 million Americans will enter the middle class in the next 15 years might be worth pointing out though. Where is he getting that statistic?!
    - sgy 12y ago
      McKinsey (http://www.mckinsey.com/insights/urbanization/urban_world_cities_and_the_rise_of_the_consuming_class http://www.mckinsey.com/insights/urbanization/urban_world_ci...)
    - Uhhrrr 12y ago
      The only way I can figure it is if at least 100 million leave the middle class first.
      - hkmurakami 12y ago
        If you define middle class solely by income (rather than accumulated wealth), and consider them "middle class" just from one year's worth of middle class level income (an abberation, basically), then this may be perhaps possible? I remember there was an article on HN that described such "income churn" for the population, and it was tremendous how people enter and exit mid to high income ranges throughout their lives.
- domdip 12y ago
  The annoying thing is that some of them are commonly-abused statistics (such as the SMB export statistic). Seeing that early on immediately marks this as low-quality political editorial. Look elsewhere for a history lesson.
lmg643 12y ago
These articles are accurate. Of course - can we also agree that the US Government post WW-2, coming off the largest war-time mobilization in history, is not the same government we have today? To say that the government had a huge hand in silicon valley, and thus all government efforts to produce commerce and innovation are going to have equal results, confuses the issue. (not to mention the universities have changed too). Which I think is the point of most of these pieces.
- FD3SA 12y ago
  Precisely. Eisenhower/FDR style "New Deal" policies would be ridiculed as Communism in today's political arena. Modern politicians are just prudent businessmen who only care about the needs of their most affluent customers.
  - dragonwriter 12y ago
    > Precisely. Eisenhower/FDR style "New Deal" policies would be ridiculed as Marxism in today's political arena. Which is different to how critics responded to them at the time...how? The New Deal wasn't exactly universally acclaimed and non-controversial when it was proposed.
    - coldtea 12y ago
      >The New Deal wasn't exactly universally acclaimed and non-controversial when it was proposed. It was far more accepted though -- as were other kind of policies, and even unions back then. It was a different climate. The fact that it was not "universally acclaimed" then, doesn't mean everything is the same regarding how the public and the pundits react to such things then and now. The deegre and the quality of the disagreement for one, can change over time.
      - dragonwriter 12y ago
        > It was far more accepted though Sure, in the depth of a massive depression, it was accepted enough as a possible solution that some of it survived, but even then it was bitterly opposed, attacked as anti-American and socialist by its opponents, parts of it didn't make it through Congress (with defections even from the President's party), and of those that did, several were struck down by the Supreme Court, in what were described by supporters of the New Deal as political rather than legally-driven rulings that were the impetus for the "court packing" scheme. And even more were winded down early as the opponents, always numerous, gained more power in Congress in the early 1940s. You say they would be "ridiculed as Marxism" today -- and they would. By people who are the ideological heirs of the same people that were ridiculing them as Marxism when they were proposed. > The fact that it was not "universally acclaimed" them, doesn't mean everything is the same regarding how the public and the pundits react to such things then and now. Things are a lot more the same than they are different. You really seem to be looking at the past through rose colored glasses.
andrewtbham 12y ago
If you're interested in more details about the government's early involvement check out steve blank's secret history of silicon valley. it's fascinating. http://steveblank.com/secret-history/ http://steveblank.com/secret-history/
- ABS 12y ago
  I also quite enjoyed Prof. Mazzucato's The Entrepreneurial State: "This book debunks the myth of a dynamic private sector vs. a sluggish public sector by providing a detailed account of the role of the public sector in taking on high-risk entrepreneurial investments, from the Internet to the ‘green revolution’." The book is more thorough but you can get a lot also out of the free pamphlet available here http://www.demos.co.uk/publications/theentrepreneurialstate http://www.demos.co.uk/publications/theentrepreneurialstate
  - WalterBright 12y ago
    Nobody remembers FidoNet.
    - wslh 12y ago
      I do ;-)
      - WalterBright 12y ago
        I meant that people assume the internet would not have existed if the government didn't create the Arpanet. FidoNet demonstrates otherwise.
    - angersock 12y ago
      Aloha!
    - mitchtbaum 12y ago
      A great documentary on FidoNet's rise with superb music and universal themes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Cm6EFYktRQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Cm6EFYktRQ A modern tale of care for a bright and reliable future, search: project byzantium fidonet
adventured 12y ago
Pretty terrible article as others have pointed out. You can tell immediately by the quality of the statistics they attempt to sell the premise with, for example: "95% of the world’s consumers live outside of the U.S." And ~20% of the world's consumption by dollar value occurs in the U.S. It's likely 1/3 of the world's population won't be meaningful consumers in this century. The 95% number - based on population of all things - is entirely worthless.
- Pacabel 12y ago
  A century is a rather long time. We only have to look at the past century to see how significantly economic conditions can change. Massive social and economic change on a global scale can happen within even just half a century. So I'd be very, very hesitant to make a claim like "It's likely 1/3 of the world's population won't be meaningful consumers in this century."
unpaiddeveloper 12y ago
I question the author's integrity (Vitaly M. Golomb). I worked for one of his startups once briefly and was never paid. I was awarded a judgement but was unable to collect it.
asadlionpk 12y ago
I learned that history through this video some time ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTC_RxWN_xo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTC_RxWN_xo
sgloutnikov 12y ago
I enjoyed Silicon Valley: A Five Part Series. Worth a shot if you are into these kinds of documentaries. http://www.siliconvalleyhistorical.org/#!silicon-valley-film/c1hkf http://www.siliconvalleyhistorical.org/#!silicon-valley-film...
schnable 12y ago
Does it cost more money to teach math and science? Or are other factors at play? Education budgets may have been cut over the past few years but in real dollars, they are significantly larger than they were in the '50s, '60s, and even the '90s. So is willingness to spend a problem? Or are we spending on the wrong things?

89 points by sgy 12y ago

Uhhrrr 12y ago

I had to scroll down 7 comments (on the TC site) to find someone who wasn't pointing out inaccuracies in this article.

sgy 12y ago
You can please some of the people, some of the time
- SahAssar 12y ago
  "1 billion consumers worldwide will enter the middle class in the next 15 years – 80% of this growth will be outside of the U.S." Saying that 200 million Americans will enter the middle class in the next 15 years might be worth pointing out though. Where is he getting that statistic?!
  - sgy 12y ago
    McKinsey (http://www.mckinsey.com/insights/urbanization/urban_world_cities_and_the_rise_of_the_consuming_class http://www.mckinsey.com/insights/urbanization/urban_world_ci...)
  - Uhhrrr 12y ago
    The only way I can figure it is if at least 100 million leave the middle class first.
    - hkmurakami 12y ago
      If you define middle class solely by income (rather than accumulated wealth), and consider them "middle class" just from one year's worth of middle class level income (an abberation, basically), then this may be perhaps possible? I remember there was an article on HN that described such "income churn" for the population, and it was tremendous how people enter and exit mid to high income ranges throughout their lives.
domdip 12y ago
The annoying thing is that some of them are commonly-abused statistics (such as the SMB export statistic). Seeing that early on immediately marks this as low-quality political editorial. Look elsewhere for a history lesson.

lmg643 12y ago

These articles are accurate. Of course - can we also agree that the US Government post WW-2, coming off the largest war-time mobilization in history, is not the same government we have today? To say that the government had a huge hand in silicon valley, and thus all government efforts to produce commerce and innovation are going to have equal results, confuses the issue. (not to mention the universities have changed too). Which I think is the point of most of these pieces.

FD3SA 12y ago
Precisely. Eisenhower/FDR style "New Deal" policies would be ridiculed as Communism in today's political arena. Modern politicians are just prudent businessmen who only care about the needs of their most affluent customers.
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  > Precisely. Eisenhower/FDR style "New Deal" policies would be ridiculed as Marxism in today's political arena. Which is different to how critics responded to them at the time...how? The New Deal wasn't exactly universally acclaimed and non-controversial when it was proposed.
  - coldtea 12y ago
    >The New Deal wasn't exactly universally acclaimed and non-controversial when it was proposed. It was far more accepted though -- as were other kind of policies, and even unions back then. It was a different climate. The fact that it was not "universally acclaimed" then, doesn't mean everything is the same regarding how the public and the pundits react to such things then and now. The deegre and the quality of the disagreement for one, can change over time.
    - dragonwriter 12y ago
      > It was far more accepted though Sure, in the depth of a massive depression, it was accepted enough as a possible solution that some of it survived, but even then it was bitterly opposed, attacked as anti-American and socialist by its opponents, parts of it didn't make it through Congress (with defections even from the President's party), and of those that did, several were struck down by the Supreme Court, in what were described by supporters of the New Deal as political rather than legally-driven rulings that were the impetus for the "court packing" scheme. And even more were winded down early as the opponents, always numerous, gained more power in Congress in the early 1940s. You say they would be "ridiculed as Marxism" today -- and they would. By people who are the ideological heirs of the same people that were ridiculing them as Marxism when they were proposed. > The fact that it was not "universally acclaimed" them, doesn't mean everything is the same regarding how the public and the pundits react to such things then and now. Things are a lot more the same than they are different. You really seem to be looking at the past through rose colored glasses.

andrewtbham 12y ago

If you're interested in more details about the government's early involvement check out steve blank's secret history of silicon valley. it's fascinating. http://steveblank.com/secret-history/ http://steveblank.com/secret-history/

ABS 12y ago
I also quite enjoyed Prof. Mazzucato's The Entrepreneurial State: "This book debunks the myth of a dynamic private sector vs. a sluggish public sector by providing a detailed account of the role of the public sector in taking on high-risk entrepreneurial investments, from the Internet to the ‘green revolution’." The book is more thorough but you can get a lot also out of the free pamphlet available here http://www.demos.co.uk/publications/theentrepreneurialstate http://www.demos.co.uk/publications/theentrepreneurialstate
- WalterBright 12y ago
  Nobody remembers FidoNet.
  - wslh 12y ago
    I do ;-)
    - WalterBright 12y ago
      I meant that people assume the internet would not have existed if the government didn't create the Arpanet. FidoNet demonstrates otherwise.
  - angersock 12y ago
    Aloha!
  - mitchtbaum 12y ago
    A great documentary on FidoNet's rise with superb music and universal themes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Cm6EFYktRQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Cm6EFYktRQ A modern tale of care for a bright and reliable future, search: project byzantium fidonet

adventured 12y ago

Pretty terrible article as others have pointed out. You can tell immediately by the quality of the statistics they attempt to sell the premise with, for example: "95% of the world’s consumers live outside of the U.S." And ~20% of the world's consumption by dollar value occurs in the U.S. It's likely 1/3 of the world's population won't be meaningful consumers in this century. The 95% number - based on population of all things - is entirely worthless.

Pacabel 12y ago
A century is a rather long time. We only have to look at the past century to see how significantly economic conditions can change. Massive social and economic change on a global scale can happen within even just half a century. So I'd be very, very hesitant to make a claim like "It's likely 1/3 of the world's population won't be meaningful consumers in this century."

unpaiddeveloper 12y ago

I question the author's integrity (Vitaly M. Golomb). I worked for one of his startups once briefly and was never paid. I was awarded a judgement but was unable to collect it.

asadlionpk 12y ago

I learned that history through this video some time ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTC_RxWN_xo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTC_RxWN_xo

sgloutnikov 12y ago

I enjoyed Silicon Valley: A Five Part Series. Worth a shot if you are into these kinds of documentaries. http://www.siliconvalleyhistorical.org/#!silicon-valley-film/c1hkf http://www.siliconvalleyhistorical.org/#!silicon-valley-film...

schnable 12y ago

Does it cost more money to teach math and science? Or are other factors at play? Education budgets may have been cut over the past few years but in real dollars, they are significantly larger than they were in the '50s, '60s, and even the '90s. So is willingness to spend a problem? Or are we spending on the wrong things?