3 ms·

Visualizing Photons in Motion at a Trillion FPS

49 points by Vinz_ 12y ago

ColinWright 12y ago
Lengthy discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3346609 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3346609 Other submissions: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3347267 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3347267 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3347793 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3347793 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3348210 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3348210 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3348427 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3348427 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3348679 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3348679 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3349278 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3349278 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3349614 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3349614
- TeMPOraL 12y ago
  ColinWright, HN's own biological duplicate content detection bot ;). (disclaimer: I find what you do very valuable, please keep doing that)
stcredzero 12y ago
One of the things that are unrealistic about "bullet time" as portrayed in games and movies, is that the world doesn't dim as time slows down. Slow the rest of the universe down, and the amount of light energy entering your pupil per unit time slows down as well. One of the things that came up in the criticisms of Khan Academy's teaching of slope/rate is that lots of people don't internalize a conception of sensory intensities as rates. To some people out there, things like speed are feelings of intensity divorced from the notion of X things happening in a second. This is probably especially true for things like brightness.
- derefr 12y ago
  The eye normalizes for orders-of-magnitude difference in luminance. Presumably, it makes for a good cinematographic choice to avoid the effect, for the same reason it would be grating to be hit with a lens flare every time a shot tracks from indoors to outdoors. On the other hand, bullet-time would, and should, be red-shifted, which is a whole 'nother thing.
  - stcredzero 12y ago
    Yes, but for certain extreme instances of bullet time indoors, I suspect the difference in intensity would be significant to the action. It would be like navigating a room at night with just one dim red LED providing light. Or else, people with that superpower would have to set off a flash-bang grenade when using their power.
    - derefr 12y ago
      Another interesting thought: bullet-time would seem colder. Depending on how things were supposed to be working (let's say your whole body was put into a different relativistic reference frame from everything around you), this would mean that things like air would become liquid/solid and impossible to move through. Interestingly, this would mean that you could have a civilization of Speedsters living comfortably inside a star.
      - stcredzero 12y ago
        Another interesting thought: bullet-time would seem colder. Yes, but then you also have friction and the required speedup of energy consumption and heat generation. Drag and friction increases with the square of velocity, so going ludicrously fast is going to generate ludicrous heat. Also recall that there's an absolute zero. Basically, there's limited downside and much greater potential upside. Interestingly, this would mean that you could have a civilization of Speedsters living comfortably inside a star. Or on a Neutron Star, as in Robert Forward's Starquake. (With the speedup coming from the much greater speed of strong force mediated nuclear reactions.)
  - jerf 12y ago
    It depends on your "bullet-time" model whether it's red-shifted or not. Much "bullet-time" is explicitly just a special effect, i.e., the idea is that the action is still occurring in real time but we're having it slowed down so we can see it, understand it, and enjoy it. In that case we are simply shooting the scene with a high-FPS camera. "Technically" we should indeed get a dimmer scene, just as real high-speed cameras do, but it's not that unrealistic that it's compensated for, again, just as in real life when the Mythbusters go to a high-speed camera shot they've already compensated for that. If you have a "real" time slow-down, exactly what happens depends on your model, especially where the photons cross whereever the effect is occurring. It is true that one model could be that a photon crossing into the effect keeps the same "real" Hertz, in which case you'd see it red-shifted. However, since in the end the entire idea of such sharply-localized time variance without a corresponding gravity field is complete nonsense, the truth is that no matter how you slice it the result is gibberish, so it's just as sensible to let the field "keep" the old photon's frequency too. However, I'd point out that "real" time slowing in the movies is fairly unusual. Mostly it's the first kind. There's a number of sci-fi books with a variety of "real" time slowing effects, though.
- bobbles 12y ago
  I generally interpret these scenes as the individual speeding themselves up to an insane level and everything else 'appears' to slow down in comparison. Maybe this is why everyone in the Matrix is wearing black sunglasses 24/7
vilhelm_s 12y ago
Does this have any practical applications, or is it just a (very cool!) art project?
tritium 12y ago
This photography isn't really about "photons" or any amount of energy measurements of radiation emission at the subatomic scale. This is more about capturing macro-scale events at very precise time scales and exceedingly high shutter speeds, and detecting how quickly an arbitrary amount of light will traverse the components of a still life. There's also a lot of distortion introduced into the final composited images, enough that they cease to look like photographs of normal physical objects, and start to look more like computer generated images of ray traced 3D models.
e3pi 12y ago
The camera filming itself in perpendicular mirror? Would we see an appreciable delay for each diminishing image, or what?

49 points by Vinz_ 12y ago

Lengthy discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3346609 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3346609 Other submissions: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3347267 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3347267 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3347793 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3347793 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3348210 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3348210 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3348427 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3348427 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3348679 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3348679 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3349278 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3349278 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3349614 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3349614

TeMPOraL 12y ago
ColinWright, HN's own biological duplicate content detection bot ;). (disclaimer: I find what you do very valuable, please keep doing that)

stcredzero 12y ago

One of the things that are unrealistic about "bullet time" as portrayed in games and movies, is that the world doesn't dim as time slows down. Slow the rest of the universe down, and the amount of light energy entering your pupil per unit time slows down as well. One of the things that came up in the criticisms of Khan Academy's teaching of slope/rate is that lots of people don't internalize a conception of sensory intensities as rates. To some people out there, things like speed are feelings of intensity divorced from the notion of X things happening in a second. This is probably especially true for things like brightness.

derefr 12y ago
The eye normalizes for orders-of-magnitude difference in luminance. Presumably, it makes for a good cinematographic choice to avoid the effect, for the same reason it would be grating to be hit with a lens flare every time a shot tracks from indoors to outdoors. On the other hand, bullet-time would, and should, be red-shifted, which is a whole 'nother thing.
- stcredzero 12y ago
  Yes, but for certain extreme instances of bullet time indoors, I suspect the difference in intensity would be significant to the action. It would be like navigating a room at night with just one dim red LED providing light. Or else, people with that superpower would have to set off a flash-bang grenade when using their power.
  - derefr 12y ago
    Another interesting thought: bullet-time would seem colder. Depending on how things were supposed to be working (let's say your whole body was put into a different relativistic reference frame from everything around you), this would mean that things like air would become liquid/solid and impossible to move through. Interestingly, this would mean that you could have a civilization of Speedsters living comfortably inside a star.
    - stcredzero 12y ago
      Another interesting thought: bullet-time would seem colder. Yes, but then you also have friction and the required speedup of energy consumption and heat generation. Drag and friction increases with the square of velocity, so going ludicrously fast is going to generate ludicrous heat. Also recall that there's an absolute zero. Basically, there's limited downside and much greater potential upside. Interestingly, this would mean that you could have a civilization of Speedsters living comfortably inside a star. Or on a Neutron Star, as in Robert Forward's Starquake. (With the speedup coming from the much greater speed of strong force mediated nuclear reactions.)
- jerf 12y ago
  It depends on your "bullet-time" model whether it's red-shifted or not. Much "bullet-time" is explicitly just a special effect, i.e., the idea is that the action is still occurring in real time but we're having it slowed down so we can see it, understand it, and enjoy it. In that case we are simply shooting the scene with a high-FPS camera. "Technically" we should indeed get a dimmer scene, just as real high-speed cameras do, but it's not that unrealistic that it's compensated for, again, just as in real life when the Mythbusters go to a high-speed camera shot they've already compensated for that. If you have a "real" time slow-down, exactly what happens depends on your model, especially where the photons cross whereever the effect is occurring. It is true that one model could be that a photon crossing into the effect keeps the same "real" Hertz, in which case you'd see it red-shifted. However, since in the end the entire idea of such sharply-localized time variance without a corresponding gravity field is complete nonsense, the truth is that no matter how you slice it the result is gibberish, so it's just as sensible to let the field "keep" the old photon's frequency too. However, I'd point out that "real" time slowing in the movies is fairly unusual. Mostly it's the first kind. There's a number of sci-fi books with a variety of "real" time slowing effects, though.
bobbles 12y ago
I generally interpret these scenes as the individual speeding themselves up to an insane level and everything else 'appears' to slow down in comparison. Maybe this is why everyone in the Matrix is wearing black sunglasses 24/7

vilhelm_s 12y ago

Does this have any practical applications, or is it just a (very cool!) art project?

tritium 12y ago

This photography isn't really about "photons" or any amount of energy measurements of radiation emission at the subatomic scale. This is more about capturing macro-scale events at very precise time scales and exceedingly high shutter speeds, and detecting how quickly an arbitrary amount of light will traverse the components of a still life. There's also a lot of distortion introduced into the final composited images, enough that they cease to look like photographs of normal physical objects, and start to look more like computer generated images of ray traced 3D models.

e3pi 12y ago

The camera filming itself in perpendicular mirror? Would we see an appreciable delay for each diminishing image, or what?