5 ms·

> ever since we’ve had success on the Android platform [Our Apple developer rep has] made it very clear that his services are no longer available to us. Wow. T

by cheald 12y ago

> ever since we’ve had success on the Android platform [Our Apple developer rep has] made it very clear that his services are no longer available to us. Wow. That is shocking to me - is that typical of Apple? I know they're very much about having people their ecosystem, but I didn't realize that there was this kind of animosity towards people who stepped out of bounds.

jbigelow76 12y ago
Maybe the Apple rank and file took Jobs's "thermonuclear war" vow to heart[1] [1] http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-20/jobs-regretted-not-getting-cancer-surgery-sooner-biographer-isaacson-says.html http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-20/jobs-regretted-not-...
- fpgeek 12y ago
  That makes me wonder if they'd have gotten the same reaction for a successful Windows Phone app (though, for practical reasons, I don't expect many developers to end up testing that).
  - aceperry 12y ago
    That's pretty funny, because Microsoft has been actively courting Apple devs. They've had special events featuring Apple devs and companies associated with Apple, making the case for developing on the Windows 8 platform. Including Windows phone, which I suspect Apple and their fanbois aren't too concerned with at the moment.
- jjoonathan 12y ago
  Or they get performance pay based on converting/retaining their assigned customers.
fpgeek 12y ago
Well, taking 2+ years (and at least one lawsuit) to fix the "iMessage switcher" bug seems to fit the same pattern.
- aviraldg 12y ago
  Why is the truth being downvoted?
  - MBCook 12y ago
    Because it's not directly developer related?
  - cheald 12y ago
    I can actually understand them dragging their heels on that - it only manifests when you leave iOS, at which point they've already lost the customer, and it causes a worse experience on their new non-Apple device, which could drive the user back into Apple's arms. It's slimy, but switching ecosystems is a high-friction event, and Apple may have just determined that the cost of supporting former customers is greater than the winback they'd get from doing so. Alienating developers, on the other hand, seems like a losing play. Publishing on Android doesn't mean you stop publishing on iOS, but giving them the cold shoulder might drive them to do so.
    - xxchan 12y ago
      They're actually hurting their current customers, those that can't get a text message through to their lost Apple brethren. Shame on them for having traitors in their flock, I guess.
      - cheald 12y ago
        Certainly, but the common factor is that the friends they're having problems with are dirty Android users. I have no doubt they've been content to let people believe that the problem is that Android can't handle text messages.
    - fpgeek 12y ago
      It's the same play in both cases - creating extra friction when you step outside of Apple's ecosystem. Users who switch to an Android phone aren't any more "lost" to Apple than developers who publish on Android. They often still have iPads, iPods and/or Macs. Some might still buy music and/or video from iTunes. And so on. In both cases, Apple is choosing to risk losing X as well in order to increase their chances of holding onto Y. And since we see other companies making both choices, it isn't an obviously winning or losing play in either case.
chimeracoder 12y ago
Anecdotally, I've heard horror stories from friends who develop apps for multiple platforms of being "punished" by Apple for releasing features to their Android application first, or similar things. Those friends don't talk about it publicly for fear of further retaliation, but given their experiences, what OP wrote doesn't surprise me in the least.
- fpgeek 12y ago
  > Those friends don't talk about it publicly for fear of further retaliation, but given their experiences, what OP wrote doesn't surprise me in the least. But what is surprising, especially given the prevalence of these anecdotes, is that OP wrote about it. I have the feeling he made the calculation that there isn't much left that Apple can do to them (other than kick them out of their app store, which would probably backfire spectacularly, of course).
robryan 12y ago
Seems like a weird attitude. Almost everyone with the resources to do so is going to want their app distributed as widely as possible across multiple platforms. Personally if I was at Apple I would be accepting that and trying my best to make iOS the platform you have the best dev experience on so that you are encouraged to put as much time as possible into the iOS app and update it more or at least as regularly as elsewhere.
- zak_mc_kracken 12y ago
  Very logical and absolutely not the way Apple operates. Steve Jobs' ghost is going to be haunting these walls for a very long time (well, at least until the new campus comes).
zak_mc_kracken 12y ago
> Wow. That is shocking to me - is that typical of Apple? Yes it is. We have a pretty successful app in the iTunes store and as a consequence, we have privileged access to the entire team, including engineers and executives who advise us how to word the description of our app and telling us all kinds of tricks to increase downloads. A few months ago, we released an Android app and since then, we have fallen into a complete Apple black hole. The Apple people we used to exchange daily emails with are not even responding to us any more. Apple is very, very serious about exclusivity. And probably feeling very, very threatened too.
- cheald 12y ago
  That's...well, bizarre seems too kind. As an outsider who hasn't ever dealt with Apple in that kind of capacity, it seems downright childish. I'm not sure that I was in danger of developing iOS apps any time soon, but these kinds of tales make me want to run screaming.
  - threeseed 12y ago
    How is it childish ? It's business. Apple has finite resources and there are thousands of amazing, exclusive apps that don't get any direct assistance. Why would they invest their time if it doesn't benefit their ecosystem. Also as someone who has worked on some of the most popular apps there is always the problem of feature equality. Companies don't want to annoy their customers by only offering features on one platform. So they don't. In which case you end up with a lowest common denominator of features.
    - hahainternet 12y ago
      > How is it childish ? It's business The two are not mutually exclusive.
    - vacri 12y ago
      It's uncommon for businesses to see a client flirting with another vendor, and in response cease all communications. Usually it's just the opposite - wow the client with attention, and woo them back. Apple certainly has the resources to shed clients at will, but it's still childish behaviour. Why make it harder for a client with a good history to develop on your platform?
izacus 12y ago
Yes, we were told directly by Apple that we will not be featured on AppStore or get any dev contacts if we release Android app together with the iOS version.
- morsch 12y ago
  That certainly explains why there are so many iOS exclusives. Here I was blaming the Android platform or foolish developers, when in fact Apple's aggressive business practices were -- at least partially -- to blame. Also serves as a reminder what we, both as devs and users, gave up when we put ourselves at the mercy of approximately 2.5 app store operators. There's no need to remind me what we gained, I'm aware. The question is rather if we can get a system that combines the best of both worlds.
kreeger 12y ago
When I worked for Universal Uclick, we released the GoComics app all at the same time for iOS, Android, and Windows Phone. I worked on the iOS release until its launch, and we had the ear of its developer support team up until and well after its release. We even were able to get the app 'featured' in the App Store shortly after its release. We didn't experience a cold shoulder at all from Apple after putting out the app for other platforms. But then again, that was just us.

by cheald 12y ago

jbigelow76 12y ago

Maybe the Apple rank and file took Jobs's "thermonuclear war" vow to heart[1] [1] http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-20/jobs-regretted-not-getting-cancer-surgery-sooner-biographer-isaacson-says.html http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-20/jobs-regretted-not-...

fpgeek 12y ago
That makes me wonder if they'd have gotten the same reaction for a successful Windows Phone app (though, for practical reasons, I don't expect many developers to end up testing that).
- aceperry 12y ago
  That's pretty funny, because Microsoft has been actively courting Apple devs. They've had special events featuring Apple devs and companies associated with Apple, making the case for developing on the Windows 8 platform. Including Windows phone, which I suspect Apple and their fanbois aren't too concerned with at the moment.
jjoonathan 12y ago
Or they get performance pay based on converting/retaining their assigned customers.

fpgeek 12y ago

Well, taking 2+ years (and at least one lawsuit) to fix the "iMessage switcher" bug seems to fit the same pattern.

aviraldg 12y ago
Why is the truth being downvoted?
- MBCook 12y ago
  Because it's not directly developer related?
- cheald 12y ago
  I can actually understand them dragging their heels on that - it only manifests when you leave iOS, at which point they've already lost the customer, and it causes a worse experience on their new non-Apple device, which could drive the user back into Apple's arms. It's slimy, but switching ecosystems is a high-friction event, and Apple may have just determined that the cost of supporting former customers is greater than the winback they'd get from doing so. Alienating developers, on the other hand, seems like a losing play. Publishing on Android doesn't mean you stop publishing on iOS, but giving them the cold shoulder might drive them to do so.
  - xxchan 12y ago
    They're actually hurting their current customers, those that can't get a text message through to their lost Apple brethren. Shame on them for having traitors in their flock, I guess.
    - cheald 12y ago
      Certainly, but the common factor is that the friends they're having problems with are dirty Android users. I have no doubt they've been content to let people believe that the problem is that Android can't handle text messages.
  - fpgeek 12y ago
    It's the same play in both cases - creating extra friction when you step outside of Apple's ecosystem. Users who switch to an Android phone aren't any more "lost" to Apple than developers who publish on Android. They often still have iPads, iPods and/or Macs. Some might still buy music and/or video from iTunes. And so on. In both cases, Apple is choosing to risk losing X as well in order to increase their chances of holding onto Y. And since we see other companies making both choices, it isn't an obviously winning or losing play in either case.

chimeracoder 12y ago

Anecdotally, I've heard horror stories from friends who develop apps for multiple platforms of being "punished" by Apple for releasing features to their Android application first, or similar things. Those friends don't talk about it publicly for fear of further retaliation, but given their experiences, what OP wrote doesn't surprise me in the least.

fpgeek 12y ago
> Those friends don't talk about it publicly for fear of further retaliation, but given their experiences, what OP wrote doesn't surprise me in the least. But what is surprising, especially given the prevalence of these anecdotes, is that OP wrote about it. I have the feeling he made the calculation that there isn't much left that Apple can do to them (other than kick them out of their app store, which would probably backfire spectacularly, of course).

robryan 12y ago

Seems like a weird attitude. Almost everyone with the resources to do so is going to want their app distributed as widely as possible across multiple platforms. Personally if I was at Apple I would be accepting that and trying my best to make iOS the platform you have the best dev experience on so that you are encouraged to put as much time as possible into the iOS app and update it more or at least as regularly as elsewhere.

zak_mc_kracken 12y ago
Very logical and absolutely not the way Apple operates. Steve Jobs' ghost is going to be haunting these walls for a very long time (well, at least until the new campus comes).

zak_mc_kracken 12y ago

> Wow. That is shocking to me - is that typical of Apple? Yes it is. We have a pretty successful app in the iTunes store and as a consequence, we have privileged access to the entire team, including engineers and executives who advise us how to word the description of our app and telling us all kinds of tricks to increase downloads. A few months ago, we released an Android app and since then, we have fallen into a complete Apple black hole. The Apple people we used to exchange daily emails with are not even responding to us any more. Apple is very, very serious about exclusivity. And probably feeling very, very threatened too.

cheald 12y ago
That's...well, bizarre seems too kind. As an outsider who hasn't ever dealt with Apple in that kind of capacity, it seems downright childish. I'm not sure that I was in danger of developing iOS apps any time soon, but these kinds of tales make me want to run screaming.
- threeseed 12y ago
  How is it childish ? It's business. Apple has finite resources and there are thousands of amazing, exclusive apps that don't get any direct assistance. Why would they invest their time if it doesn't benefit their ecosystem. Also as someone who has worked on some of the most popular apps there is always the problem of feature equality. Companies don't want to annoy their customers by only offering features on one platform. So they don't. In which case you end up with a lowest common denominator of features.
  - hahainternet 12y ago
    > How is it childish ? It's business The two are not mutually exclusive.
  - vacri 12y ago
    It's uncommon for businesses to see a client flirting with another vendor, and in response cease all communications. Usually it's just the opposite - wow the client with attention, and woo them back. Apple certainly has the resources to shed clients at will, but it's still childish behaviour. Why make it harder for a client with a good history to develop on your platform?

izacus 12y ago

Yes, we were told directly by Apple that we will not be featured on AppStore or get any dev contacts if we release Android app together with the iOS version.

morsch 12y ago
That certainly explains why there are so many iOS exclusives. Here I was blaming the Android platform or foolish developers, when in fact Apple's aggressive business practices were -- at least partially -- to blame. Also serves as a reminder what we, both as devs and users, gave up when we put ourselves at the mercy of approximately 2.5 app store operators. There's no need to remind me what we gained, I'm aware. The question is rather if we can get a system that combines the best of both worlds.

kreeger 12y ago

When I worked for Universal Uclick, we released the GoComics app all at the same time for iOS, Android, and Windows Phone. I worked on the iOS release until its launch, and we had the ear of its developer support team up until and well after its release. We even were able to get the app 'featured' in the App Store shortly after its release. We didn't experience a cold shoulder at all from Apple after putting out the app for other platforms. But then again, that was just us.