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One paragraph stands out for me: ”In his article Dobzhanksy turned Sagan’s argument on its head. Dobzhansky cited the fact that of the more than two million sp

One paragraph stands out for me: ”In his article Dobzhanksy turned Sagan’s argument on its head. Dobzhansky cited the fact that of the more than two million species living on Earth only one had evolved language, extragenetically transmitted culture, and awareness of self and death, as proof that it is “fatuous” to hold “the opinion that if life exists anywhere else it must eventually give rise to rational beings.”“ I find this interesting because some scientists are open to the fact that dolphins[1] and elephants[2] may be significantly more intelligent than we previously supposed, and possibly as intelligent as humans. The difficulty lies in defining exactly what intelligence is - and how we measure it in other animals. That in turn leads to more questions. Suppose that there is, in fact, at least 3 human-level sentient species on our own planet. Observe: only one of them have developed tools to the extent that space travel is a problem that we're trying to solve. Perhaps the reality is that there are as many intelligent species as astronomers posit - maybe multiple species per planet! - but almost all of them have no interest in exploring and settling on other planets. [1]http://www.dolphins-world.com/dolphin-intelligence/ http://www.dolphins-world.com/dolphin-intelligence/ [2]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant_cognition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant_cognition

Roboprog 12y ago
Other animals also make simple food gathering tools or construct simple dwellings. However, humans seem to have had a qualitative impact on the planet due to the quantity of things that they imagine and build. Perhaps the capacity for written language gives us the ability to recursively combine our tool building in layers? (not that reading and writing is required, but simply using that as a indicator that the species in general is capable of such permutation of ideas)
- undersuit 12y ago
  Without reading and writing I think the whole 'Standing on the shoulders of giants' thing falls apart because you must be directly associated with the 'giant'. How do you transmit the ideas of an Einstein between generations of normals?
  - scrumper 12y ago
    Agreed, but it's possible, up to a point: oral history, apprenticeship, observation all serve. It is much less efficient, much less reliable, and probably impractical for higher-order things (such as theories of relativity) but it does work as a bootstrap. Human culture did well enough for a long time before writing. I think a bigger reason that intelligent animals haven't progressed as far as us (qualify 'progress' however you like) is more to do with evolutionary pressure from humans changing the environment faster than they can adapt to it. That extends to populations of humans at different stages of societal evolution as well: cultures are snuffed out very quickly when more advanced groups make their presence felt.
sitkack 12y ago
The speciesism in the article struck me as an odd centrality. We are also in a small window between ice ages, there could have been and possibly be in the future other intelligent life on this planet. Depending how far you want to go, Homosapiens have displaced other intelligent hominids. Crows might have language. Pigs are hella smart. Octopus are extremely intelligent from a purely genetic standpoint, they have no socialization with their parents. And many animals hunt in packs, including squid. What intelligent animals does our existence displace?
protonfish 12y ago
I thought that was a good idea poorly worded. It appears that other animals do have language, culture and awareness of death, but no other animal has built radios (or even uses fire as far as I know.) So I don't know why he chose that example. I don't believe that life, even highly intelligent life, is rare in the universe. But I'd bet a life form that chooses to build giant radio telescopes is quite uncommon. We are freaks of the galaxy.

Roboprog 12y ago

Other animals also make simple food gathering tools or construct simple dwellings. However, humans seem to have had a qualitative impact on the planet due to the quantity of things that they imagine and build. Perhaps the capacity for written language gives us the ability to recursively combine our tool building in layers? (not that reading and writing is required, but simply using that as a indicator that the species in general is capable of such permutation of ideas)

undersuit 12y ago
Without reading and writing I think the whole 'Standing on the shoulders of giants' thing falls apart because you must be directly associated with the 'giant'. How do you transmit the ideas of an Einstein between generations of normals?
- scrumper 12y ago
  Agreed, but it's possible, up to a point: oral history, apprenticeship, observation all serve. It is much less efficient, much less reliable, and probably impractical for higher-order things (such as theories of relativity) but it does work as a bootstrap. Human culture did well enough for a long time before writing. I think a bigger reason that intelligent animals haven't progressed as far as us (qualify 'progress' however you like) is more to do with evolutionary pressure from humans changing the environment faster than they can adapt to it. That extends to populations of humans at different stages of societal evolution as well: cultures are snuffed out very quickly when more advanced groups make their presence felt.

sitkack 12y ago

The speciesism in the article struck me as an odd centrality. We are also in a small window between ice ages, there could have been and possibly be in the future other intelligent life on this planet. Depending how far you want to go, Homosapiens have displaced other intelligent hominids. Crows might have language. Pigs are hella smart. Octopus are extremely intelligent from a purely genetic standpoint, they have no socialization with their parents. And many animals hunt in packs, including squid. What intelligent animals does our existence displace?

protonfish 12y ago

I thought that was a good idea poorly worded. It appears that other animals do have language, culture and awareness of death, but no other animal has built radios (or even uses fire as far as I know.) So I don't know why he chose that example. I don't believe that life, even highly intelligent life, is rare in the universe. But I'd bet a life form that chooses to build giant radio telescopes is quite uncommon. We are freaks of the galaxy.