4 ms·

Having lived in a BK building where at least 25% (4 out of 16) of the tenants rented out their apt. on AirBnB with regular frequency, I can't wait for this to b

Having lived in a BK building where at least 25% (4 out of 16) of the tenants rented out their apt. on AirBnB with regular frequency, I can't wait for this to be addressed once and for all... Strangers with keys to the front door, easily copied because our landlord didn't invest in secure locks. Strangers coming home at 3am on a weekday (Mo-We), inebriated, slamming the doors waking us up and the kid as well, quite often with more raucous strangers in tow for a night cap. Strangers picked up in a bar of our 'gentrifying' hood, who left at 5am after knocking back more beers and/or some boots. I paid rent, for the joy of living in a virtual dorm, they collected monies while affecting my quality of life and safety. The lease specifically forbade short-term subletting. We lived in that place for 13 years, 10 without problems, but the last 3 at times unbearable because of these "good friends from Europe". When we moved, our friendly neighbors across the hall, avowed AirBnB hosts (they came clean), suggested that we renew our lease one more year (rent stabilized) and put our apt. on AirBnB "as a source of income". They would happily "manage" our AirBnB listing (key transfer, cleaning) for a piece of the pie. We declined, we liked our other neighbors too much... With reports from Berlin, San Francisco and other cities showcasing how AirBnB has affected availability of apt's and is one of the main drivers of rising rents ( eg see http://www.sfchronicle.com/business/item/airbnb-san-francisco-30110.php http://www.sfchronicle.com/business/item/airbnb-san-francisc... and http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2013/1230/Berlin-squeezes-Airbnb-on-short-term-apartment-rentals http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2013/1230/Berlin-squee... ) it's about time something is done about this. Let's stop calling them social sharing companies, and just rename them "loopholes", who make money by assisting others in breaking the law, violating the terms of their lease, and enabling tax evasion whilst denying any type of responsibility for "sharing" my quality of life to pieces... Glad regulation is in the pipeline. Private home owners who reside in their own houses, share away, but keep AirBnB out of apt. buildings. Edit: words/grammar

esbonsa 12y ago
use something like http://www.unikey.com/ http://www.unikey.com/ and then you can easily revoke/disable keys
- rahimnathwani 12y ago
  It's not his apartment or building. He cannot force the building owner to replace the main entrance's lock.
- wavefunction 12y ago
  whooosh right over the head
dominotw 12y ago
I bought a condo near a sporting/concert center and I live though hell during summer because my neighbors rent out their condos to concert going college kids on AirBnB. I've written to my alderman, complained to the city with listings on AirBnb. Nothing. No response. It would be a dream come true for me someone prosecutes AirBnb and puts the founders behind bars.
- wyager 12y ago
  >It would be a dream come true for me someone prosecutes AirBnb and puts the founders behind bars. What have they done wrong? Made it easier for people to share living space? God forbid people make tools that make travel easier and more accessible.
  - dominotw 12y ago
    >Made it easier for people to share living space? Did you read the article?
  - sheetjs 12y ago
    AirBnB violates NY's illegal hotel law (e.g. http://www.scribd.com/doc/142650911/Decision-and-Order-for-NOV-35006622J http://www.scribd.com/doc/142650911/Decision-and-Order-for-N...). AirBnB actively promotes in New York (they have been actively airing ads on local TV) and made no effort (at least, when the issue first flared up) to make users aware of the relevant laws.
    - wyager 12y ago
      OK, so they broke NYC law. I probably do that 25 times a day. So does everyone else. Did they do anything morally wrong? I mean the developers, not the people renting their apartments.
      - bradleyjg 12y ago
        These are not victimless crimes, the neighbors are the victims, and AirBnb is willfully facilitating illegal and antisocial behavior. That's plainly immoral.
wyager 12y ago
>The lease specifically forbade short-term subletting. Then it sounds like your lease agreement isn't being enforced. That's a landlord problem, not a legal problem. >Glad regulation is in the pipeline. Why? So that all of us who use AirBnB have no options left? I know I can't afford travel without it. How about instead of trying to ham-fist legal solutions to minor problems, you just get your landlord to enforce the lease agreement that already bans AirBnB renting?
- thenmar 12y ago
  How do you go about getting a landlord to enforce a lease agreement? As long as the landlord is getting paid on time and the place isn't destroyed, he probably doesn't care. This seems like a textbook example of an externality that's only solvable by regulation, or by more strictly enforcing any city laws that require landlords to forbid short term sublets.
  - wyager 12y ago
    >How do you go about getting a landlord to enforce a lease agreement? Uh, ask them? If they refuse, just threatening them with a court case will probably do the job. They are legally obligated to uphold their end of your lease agreement. >This seems like a textbook example of an externality that's only solvable by regulation Again, why? It's covered under existing laws. If that doesn't do it, why do you think more laws will?
    - tzs 12y ago
      > Uh, ask them? If they refuse, just threatening them with a court case will probably do the job. They are legally obligated to uphold their end of your lease agreement. That is not correct. Let L = the landlord, R = the tenant who is renting out his apartment, T = the tenant who is being annoyed by the problems R's sub-renters are causing You are proposing that T sue L for not enforcing a term in R's lease against R. R does not wish to have this term enforced. The lease agreement being violated (at least as far as the term that prohibits sub-renting the apartment goes) is the one between L and R, not the one between L and T. T would not have standing to sue since T is not a party to the contract between L and R.
seanmcdirmid 12y ago
> Having lived in a BK building where at least 25% (4 out of 16) of the tenants rented out their apt. on AirBnB with regular frequency, I can't wait for this to be addressed once and for all... I didn't think AirBnB was a thing in Bangkok at all!?
- sheetjs 12y ago
  BK also refers to brooklyn
  - notlisted 12y ago
    Pardon my arrogance :-)
    - seanmcdirmid 12y ago
      BK meaning Brooklyn definitely completely changes the way I read your post :)
      - Mz 12y ago
        To me, BK = either Burger King or Bad Kissingen (a town in Germany). :-)
aianus 12y ago
If your rent is $40 a day and AirBnb guests are paying $80 a day don't they deserve to be there more than you? I don't buy the "I was there first" or "but zoning" arguments. Besides, I've lived in private room in a hostel in a developing country for the last three months and haven't experienced any of these problems. I find it hard to believe the average apartment building with AirBnB units would be worse.
- humbledrone 12y ago
  > The lease specifically forbade short-term subletting [...] > [...] don't they deserve to be there more than you? Nope. In fact, they don't deserve to be there at all if they're violating the contract the tenants signed with the owner.
  - aianus 12y ago
    If it wasn't for the zoning laws and the ban on short term rentals, the landlord would be doing it himself and there would be no such clause. I'm just saying it's totally unfair that someone who lives in NY should pay considerably less for housing than someone visiting and since the city isn't willing to do something to fix that, this black market has popped up to take advantage of the arbitrage opportunity.
    - tzs 12y ago
      > I'm just saying it's totally unfair that someone who lives in NY should pay considerably less for housing than someone visiting People who live there are in the market for long term housing. People visiting are in the market for short term housing. Comparing this is kind of ridiculous, because they serve people with quite different needs.
      - aianus 12y ago
        The product (a place to sleep) is the same and there's no reason for one type of person to pay more than the other besides government interference. This is the mirror of taxis vs owning a car. There is no good reason for it to cost so much more to take a taxi than to get a ride from some guy with a car besides government regulation. As soon as you ignore that regulation you get products that everyone loves except the people who were benefiting under the old unfair system. In the taxi case it's people who were charging above market rates for transportation. In this case, it's people paying below market rates to live in NYC.
mcphilip 12y ago
I got to experience the opposite side of the equation. I rented a 6 bedroom house in Austin to house my family during my wedding. There was an ominous note left on the fridge where the owner explained that the neighbors are hostile and will call the cops after 10pm if they hear any noise at all. Later in the day when my mom was out playing in the backyard with the grandkids, she got yelled at by the neighbors with warnings of calling the cops later that night. Honestly I just wanted everything to go smoothly since I was getting married, but man, I felt sleazy housing my family in a hostile environment. And you know what, I can't really blame the neighbors at all. This was my first and last experience with Airbnb. It just felt dirty to be apart of such neighborhood hostilitly.
- zaroth 12y ago
  Interesting perspective. I've done AirBnB but only ever in single-family homes in jurisdictions where it's not illegal. But if I rented a unit and it turned out that the unit was actually not legal to rent, and even more-so if the neighbors are hostile, why PAY for it? Sounds like a great basis for contesting the charge.

esbonsa 12y ago

use something like http://www.unikey.com/ http://www.unikey.com/ and then you can easily revoke/disable keys

rahimnathwani 12y ago
It's not his apartment or building. He cannot force the building owner to replace the main entrance's lock.
wavefunction 12y ago
whooosh right over the head

dominotw 12y ago

I bought a condo near a sporting/concert center and I live though hell during summer because my neighbors rent out their condos to concert going college kids on AirBnB. I've written to my alderman, complained to the city with listings on AirBnb. Nothing. No response. It would be a dream come true for me someone prosecutes AirBnb and puts the founders behind bars.

wyager 12y ago
>It would be a dream come true for me someone prosecutes AirBnb and puts the founders behind bars. What have they done wrong? Made it easier for people to share living space? God forbid people make tools that make travel easier and more accessible.
- dominotw 12y ago
  >Made it easier for people to share living space? Did you read the article?
- sheetjs 12y ago
  AirBnB violates NY's illegal hotel law (e.g. http://www.scribd.com/doc/142650911/Decision-and-Order-for-NOV-35006622J http://www.scribd.com/doc/142650911/Decision-and-Order-for-N...). AirBnB actively promotes in New York (they have been actively airing ads on local TV) and made no effort (at least, when the issue first flared up) to make users aware of the relevant laws.
  - wyager 12y ago
    OK, so they broke NYC law. I probably do that 25 times a day. So does everyone else. Did they do anything morally wrong? I mean the developers, not the people renting their apartments.
    - bradleyjg 12y ago
      These are not victimless crimes, the neighbors are the victims, and AirBnb is willfully facilitating illegal and antisocial behavior. That's plainly immoral.

wyager 12y ago

>The lease specifically forbade short-term subletting. Then it sounds like your lease agreement isn't being enforced. That's a landlord problem, not a legal problem. >Glad regulation is in the pipeline. Why? So that all of us who use AirBnB have no options left? I know I can't afford travel without it. How about instead of trying to ham-fist legal solutions to minor problems, you just get your landlord to enforce the lease agreement that already bans AirBnB renting?

thenmar 12y ago
How do you go about getting a landlord to enforce a lease agreement? As long as the landlord is getting paid on time and the place isn't destroyed, he probably doesn't care. This seems like a textbook example of an externality that's only solvable by regulation, or by more strictly enforcing any city laws that require landlords to forbid short term sublets.
- wyager 12y ago
  >How do you go about getting a landlord to enforce a lease agreement? Uh, ask them? If they refuse, just threatening them with a court case will probably do the job. They are legally obligated to uphold their end of your lease agreement. >This seems like a textbook example of an externality that's only solvable by regulation Again, why? It's covered under existing laws. If that doesn't do it, why do you think more laws will?
  - tzs 12y ago
    > Uh, ask them? If they refuse, just threatening them with a court case will probably do the job. They are legally obligated to uphold their end of your lease agreement. That is not correct. Let L = the landlord, R = the tenant who is renting out his apartment, T = the tenant who is being annoyed by the problems R's sub-renters are causing You are proposing that T sue L for not enforcing a term in R's lease against R. R does not wish to have this term enforced. The lease agreement being violated (at least as far as the term that prohibits sub-renting the apartment goes) is the one between L and R, not the one between L and T. T would not have standing to sue since T is not a party to the contract between L and R.

seanmcdirmid 12y ago

> Having lived in a BK building where at least 25% (4 out of 16) of the tenants rented out their apt. on AirBnB with regular frequency, I can't wait for this to be addressed once and for all... I didn't think AirBnB was a thing in Bangkok at all!?

sheetjs 12y ago
BK also refers to brooklyn
- notlisted 12y ago
  Pardon my arrogance :-)
  - seanmcdirmid 12y ago
    BK meaning Brooklyn definitely completely changes the way I read your post :)
    - Mz 12y ago
      To me, BK = either Burger King or Bad Kissingen (a town in Germany). :-)

aianus 12y ago

If your rent is $40 a day and AirBnb guests are paying $80 a day don't they deserve to be there more than you? I don't buy the "I was there first" or "but zoning" arguments. Besides, I've lived in private room in a hostel in a developing country for the last three months and haven't experienced any of these problems. I find it hard to believe the average apartment building with AirBnB units would be worse.

humbledrone 12y ago
> The lease specifically forbade short-term subletting [...] > [...] don't they deserve to be there more than you? Nope. In fact, they don't deserve to be there at all if they're violating the contract the tenants signed with the owner.
- aianus 12y ago
  If it wasn't for the zoning laws and the ban on short term rentals, the landlord would be doing it himself and there would be no such clause. I'm just saying it's totally unfair that someone who lives in NY should pay considerably less for housing than someone visiting and since the city isn't willing to do something to fix that, this black market has popped up to take advantage of the arbitrage opportunity.
  - tzs 12y ago
    > I'm just saying it's totally unfair that someone who lives in NY should pay considerably less for housing than someone visiting People who live there are in the market for long term housing. People visiting are in the market for short term housing. Comparing this is kind of ridiculous, because they serve people with quite different needs.
    - aianus 12y ago
      The product (a place to sleep) is the same and there's no reason for one type of person to pay more than the other besides government interference. This is the mirror of taxis vs owning a car. There is no good reason for it to cost so much more to take a taxi than to get a ride from some guy with a car besides government regulation. As soon as you ignore that regulation you get products that everyone loves except the people who were benefiting under the old unfair system. In the taxi case it's people who were charging above market rates for transportation. In this case, it's people paying below market rates to live in NYC.

mcphilip 12y ago

I got to experience the opposite side of the equation. I rented a 6 bedroom house in Austin to house my family during my wedding. There was an ominous note left on the fridge where the owner explained that the neighbors are hostile and will call the cops after 10pm if they hear any noise at all. Later in the day when my mom was out playing in the backyard with the grandkids, she got yelled at by the neighbors with warnings of calling the cops later that night. Honestly I just wanted everything to go smoothly since I was getting married, but man, I felt sleazy housing my family in a hostile environment. And you know what, I can't really blame the neighbors at all. This was my first and last experience with Airbnb. It just felt dirty to be apart of such neighborhood hostilitly.

zaroth 12y ago
Interesting perspective. I've done AirBnB but only ever in single-family homes in jurisdictions where it's not illegal. But if I rented a unit and it turned out that the unit was actually not legal to rent, and even more-so if the neighbors are hostile, why PAY for it? Sounds like a great basis for contesting the charge.