5 ms·

I appreciate that Cook shares the personal story of encountering clansmen, challenging them (at such a young age), but man there are some serious stretches of t

by selmnoo 12y ago

I appreciate that Cook shares the personal story of encountering clansmen, challenging them (at such a young age), but man there are some serious stretches of truths in the rest of the video. At 4:12 he says he found Apple and Steve Jobs to believe advancing humanity through the equality of all its employees. Is he serious? Not even any sign of cognitive dissonance while he says it? He was the COO, he had to have known something about the terrible things that were going on. It wasn't over nothing that nytimes pondered the question that if Jobs were alive today, whether he would be in jail or not ( http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/03/business/steve-jobs-a-genius-at-pushing-boundaries-too.html http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/03/business/steve-jobs-a-geni... ). As a tech person I'm excited and impressed by Apple products, but let's not forget the serious wrongs they have done and continue to do. I personally choose to vote with my dollars and stay away from Apple for this and other reasons.

josephlord 12y ago
You can treat people equally without treating them well. Yes they may have been harmed by the no poaching agreements but if gay, straight, black, brown and white were otherwise treated well and equally that is something that I could easily imagine someone could feel proud of. The crimes in the listed article don't seem that terrible, the exceptional thing about them compared to other companies seems to be the direct CEO involvement and brazen lack of subtlety and subterfuge with which they were done. I'm not saying that these actions were right or that they shouldn't be punished but if you feel that way about Apple I wonder what your thoughts are about Samsung. Out of interest what tech companies do meet your ethical requirements?
- simonh 12y ago
  The no poaching agreement went all the way up to the top at Google as well. In fact Google even fired a recruiter for trying to hire someone from Apple, yet they seem to get a free pass in these discussions for some reason. It's the same effect as the Chinese factory workers conditions all over again. Forget that workers at the Microsoft and Samsung factories have worse conditions and lower pay, the story is all about Apple, as always.
  - adamnemecek 12y ago
    I mean didn't the no poaching agreement come from Apple?
    - Alphasite_ 12y ago
      It came from multiple companies collaborating to create it.
    - throwaway1509 12y ago
      By definition, you need more than one entity to agree.
      - adamnemecek 12y ago
        You need more than one entity to agree. You need one entity to suggest it.
        simonh 12y ago
        I'm sure you must have a really good reason for so heavily implying that it was apple. Go on. Enlighten us. What makes you so certain?
  - pyre 12y ago
    Apple paints itself in a different light than Microsoft or Samsung, which is one of the reasons that people focus on their flaws more than those of MS or Samsung...
    - tendom 12y ago
      Oh, of course. It's okay to kill migrant workers, as long as I don't create pretty products. Apple is like any other company, it doesn't matter how they paint themselves. What matters is the peoples lives that are being ruined.
      - 12y ago
zak_mc_kracken 12y ago
> At 4:12 he says he found Apple and Steve Jobs to believe advancing humanity through the equality of all its employees. Yes, it's clear revisionism. For example, Jobs didn't believe in donating to charities. The first thing he did when he rejoined Apple after the NeXt debacle is to cancel all charity donations. After his death, restoring charities was one of the first things that Tim Cook did. There's also ample evidence that Apple treated its employees very poorly, especially compared to the other Silicon Valley companies (for example, Jobs refused for years to provide commuting shuttles to its employees despite heavy complaints and internal petitions). There is a reason why Apple has never been even in the top 100 companies to work for.
- goblin89 12y ago
  > At 4:12 he says he found Apple and Steve Jobs to believe advancing humanity through the equality of all its employees. Well, your comment doesn't seem to contradict that point, to be fair. - Donation policy doesn't relate to employee equality. - Shuttles: Jobs himself didn't use a shuttle. Employee equality checks out.
- mandeepj 12y ago
  > Jobs refused for years to provide commuting shuttles to its employees despite heavy complaints and internal petitions What could be the reason behind Jobs refusal for this facility?
- webwielder 12y ago
  Jobs didn't believe in coddling employees. For him, the chance to work on amazing products (or in support of those products) with amazing people was ample enough reward.
- gress 12y ago
  Apple pays well. Shuttles on the other hand, are a controversial elitist perk.
  - pook1e 12y ago
    > Apple pays well. A company requires more than 'pays well' to be a great company to work for, if that's what you're suggesting.

by selmnoo 12y ago

josephlord 12y ago

You can treat people equally without treating them well. Yes they may have been harmed by the no poaching agreements but if gay, straight, black, brown and white were otherwise treated well and equally that is something that I could easily imagine someone could feel proud of. The crimes in the listed article don't seem that terrible, the exceptional thing about them compared to other companies seems to be the direct CEO involvement and brazen lack of subtlety and subterfuge with which they were done. I'm not saying that these actions were right or that they shouldn't be punished but if you feel that way about Apple I wonder what your thoughts are about Samsung. Out of interest what tech companies do meet your ethical requirements?

simonh 12y ago
The no poaching agreement went all the way up to the top at Google as well. In fact Google even fired a recruiter for trying to hire someone from Apple, yet they seem to get a free pass in these discussions for some reason. It's the same effect as the Chinese factory workers conditions all over again. Forget that workers at the Microsoft and Samsung factories have worse conditions and lower pay, the story is all about Apple, as always.
- adamnemecek 12y ago
  I mean didn't the no poaching agreement come from Apple?
  - Alphasite_ 12y ago
    It came from multiple companies collaborating to create it.
  - throwaway1509 12y ago
    By definition, you need more than one entity to agree.
    - adamnemecek 12y ago
      You need more than one entity to agree. You need one entity to suggest it.
      - simonh 12y ago
        I'm sure you must have a really good reason for so heavily implying that it was apple. Go on. Enlighten us. What makes you so certain?
- pyre 12y ago
  Apple paints itself in a different light than Microsoft or Samsung, which is one of the reasons that people focus on their flaws more than those of MS or Samsung...
  - tendom 12y ago
    Oh, of course. It's okay to kill migrant workers, as long as I don't create pretty products. Apple is like any other company, it doesn't matter how they paint themselves. What matters is the peoples lives that are being ruined.
    - 12y ago

zak_mc_kracken 12y ago

> At 4:12 he says he found Apple and Steve Jobs to believe advancing humanity through the equality of all its employees. Yes, it's clear revisionism. For example, Jobs didn't believe in donating to charities. The first thing he did when he rejoined Apple after the NeXt debacle is to cancel all charity donations. After his death, restoring charities was one of the first things that Tim Cook did. There's also ample evidence that Apple treated its employees very poorly, especially compared to the other Silicon Valley companies (for example, Jobs refused for years to provide commuting shuttles to its employees despite heavy complaints and internal petitions). There is a reason why Apple has never been even in the top 100 companies to work for.

goblin89 12y ago
> At 4:12 he says he found Apple and Steve Jobs to believe advancing humanity through the equality of all its employees. Well, your comment doesn't seem to contradict that point, to be fair. - Donation policy doesn't relate to employee equality. - Shuttles: Jobs himself didn't use a shuttle. Employee equality checks out.
mandeepj 12y ago
> Jobs refused for years to provide commuting shuttles to its employees despite heavy complaints and internal petitions What could be the reason behind Jobs refusal for this facility?
webwielder 12y ago
Jobs didn't believe in coddling employees. For him, the chance to work on amazing products (or in support of those products) with amazing people was ample enough reward.
gress 12y ago
Apple pays well. Shuttles on the other hand, are a controversial elitist perk.
- pook1e 12y ago
  > Apple pays well. A company requires more than 'pays well' to be a great company to work for, if that's what you're suggesting.