7 ms·

Japan Seeks to Squelch Its Tiny Cars

41 points by austinz 12y ago

josai 12y ago
This is pretty short-sighted, in my opinion. If anything, smaller-sized cars seem likely to become more popular globally, not less. A walk through any chinese city will reveal any number of hand carts and jury-rigged bicycles just begging to be replaced by space- and fuel-efficient microvehicles. As the world moves to cities, cars get smaller. Japan should be capitalising on this trend, trying to spread the culture overseas, not trying to smother it!
- quotient 12y ago
  I agree. Smaller cars are not only more affordable (both in terms of original price and fuel efficiency) than normal-sized, let alone 'big' cars, but they're also significantly more practical in crowded conditions, with regards to manoeuvring and parking. They don't even necessarily offer less utility than larger cars; they are simply more compact. For these reasons, I think it is likely that smaller vehicles will be adapted in urban centres of developing nations in great number, and they may even gain popularity in developed nations due to their environmental and financial efficiency. If the article in question reports anything even close to the truth, then auto-manufacturers in Japan are making a mistake: they are abandoning their practice precisely when they are really getting their chance to make significant global impact.
- dnautics 12y ago
  Keynesian economics... Friend to the working class and the end environment. Increase Y at all cost.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- seanmcdirmid 12y ago
  I would love to buy a daihatsu copen in the states. These are just fun small cars.
  - 2muchcoffeeman 12y ago
    I don't own my own car, I share one at the moment. But if I bought my own, I used to want a Nissan Cube. It's a hilarious looking car and the overall shape just looks so efficient. I never realised they make even smaller more efficient cars (and I have visited Japan). If you don't want to sell these in Japan, send them over to Australia please.
deadghost 12y ago
>But industry and government officials are increasingly worried that these microvehicles have become a distraction for the nation’s automakers — still bastions of the Japanese economy — and are moving to wean drivers off them. In April the government took what its critics charged was a hard-line route. Kei drivers were hit with a triple whammy of a higher sales tax, higher gasoline tax and higher kei car tax, the last of which the government raised by 50 percent, sharply narrowing their tax difference with regular-size vehicles. I feel like there's more going on than the article is saying. "industry and government officials are increasingly worried that these microvehicles have become a distraction for the nation’s automakers" sounds like lobbyists for full-size cars feeding politicians what to say. I don't buy that a bunch of politicians decided it was the for the greater good of the country to increase taxes on a cheap, fuel efficient vehicle.
- ekianjo 12y ago
  > I don't buy that a bunch of politicians decided it was the for the greater good of the country to increase taxes on a cheap, fuel efficient vehicle. You are right, politicians in Japan are mostly influenced by industry lobbies. They went to devaluated the Yen not too long ago just so that Toyota and a few other major manufacturers could sell more products overseas. And now everything is more expensive in Japan (petrol price increased so all manufacturing goods and anything that needs to be moved around has increased significantly in price).
  - po 12y ago
    …just so that Toyota and a few other major manufacturers could sell more products overseas The strong yen was hurting any and all export industries in Japan, not just a few companies. The ability to export at competitive prices is extremely important to the Japanese economy. A devalued yen does drive up the price of imported goods (like fuel) but it also drives demand for jobs. The price of locally produced goods are largely unaffected.
    - ekianjo 12y ago
      Do you go shopping? Because i have seen most of my bills go up. Including food. And not just a little. EDIT: I have been in companies making products in Japan for years and I can tell you the petrol price impacts everything and a weak yen is very detrimental to your product cost structure. If you dont see the prices move much its because the companies are taking the hit as they do not want to raise prices too much and therefore keep prices more or less the same but reduce quantities, or remove ingredients or parts of the products to make it cheaper to produce. But do not kid yourself into believing increased petrol prices because of a weaker yen have no effect on the economy or prices. They clearly do.You basically get less for your money as a consumer.
edandersen 12y ago
Kei cars are (were) cheap, economical, Eco friendly, favourably taxed and actually quite fun to drive. Now they are "too popular" and the government wants everyone to buy larger, less fuel efficient cars - I know someone personally who bought a larger car simply because of the new penalty taxes on Keis. Abe really has lost it.
throwaway_yy2Di 12y ago
Just speculation, maybe this is a result of US pressure in the recent trade talks (trans-Pacific partnership?) It looks like Japan's domestic auto market is a key issue in TPP: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/12/us-trade-asiapacific-japan-idUSBRE93B09R20130412 http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/12/us-trade-asiapacif... (edit): Here's a whole article about US TPP pressure against kei cars: http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2012/01/27/business/lower-tax-rates-for-kei-cars-arent-ok-with-american-automakers/ http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2012/01/27/business/lower-t... "When American automakers expressed their opposition against Japan joining the Trans-Pacific Partnership negotiations due to its closed market, the U.S. makers also pressed Tokyo to end special tax treatment for the country’s unique “kei” super-minivehicle segment." "The outside pressure to end the low taxation for one of Japan’s most popular car segments has jolted the industry, which has protected the smaller end of the domestic car market for half a century." "Some industry observers point out that reviewing the tax rules for the super-mini segment would hit Japanese automakers hard. But others say a review would be a good thing because kei cars have received favorable treatment for too long." Reading those two articles, I think it's credible that US negotiators got a concession from Abe on kei taxes, and we're seeing the result of that. As I understand, this kind of deal would be made in secret (like many aspects of TPP), so we wouldn't be aware of it at this point.
- deadghost 12y ago
  "Japan also agreed the United States could phase out its auto tariffs, which are 2.5 percent on cars and 25 percent on trucks, over the longest period possible in the future TPP deal. Levin criticized the commitment in that area, saying any phase-out of the U.S. tariffs should be linked to measurable improvement in sales of U.S. cars in Japan." It's all highly suggestive that it's a concession in part of a broader strategy. I'm sure there's a complex interplay of interests going on with the TPP as a whole, US auto, and Japanese auto. US auto seems like it's getting the raw end and may be trying to grab at whatever they can and perhaps the Japanese may be making a large concession in another area(not auto related) to get more automotive foothold in the US. ^complete speculation; I don't know jack about politics/economics/current events.
- deciplex 12y ago
Fuxy 12y ago
This is stupid Japanese auto makers were fairing way better in this economic crises than American ones. Why would you like your car companies to be like GM or Ford and fail at the first sign of bad economic times. Everyone is trying to make cars more eco friendly the Japanese seem to be ahead in that regard and now their going to opposite way.
scarygliders 12y ago
This makes me sad. I lived and worked in Japan for 6 years, returning to my native Scotland almost 2 years ago, after struggling for the few years after the M9 quake (lived in Koriyama, Fukushima prefecture and lost my job after the quake). We bought a new Suzuki Wagon R Limited back then, and I loved that car. Its apparently small outward appearance is deceptive; inside, there was loads of space - a high roof height, and when you folded down the rear seats you could comfortably fit items such as chests of drawers, fridges, and the like. The engine; 0.6 litre - but that was augmented by a turbo, so there was plenty of power available, plus it sipped fuel. The automatic gearbox provided 4WD in first gear, which was awesome during winter - we lived in rural parts of Fukushima and the roads frequently iced over. Once during winter we went for a drive up a mountain road covered in about 3 inches of fresh snow and made it to the top of the Katasoniyama mountain because of the 4WD+studless tyres. Our Wagon R Limited also had niceties such as aircon, electric windows, and a minidisc(!)/radio. All in all, a fantastic vehicle, and I wish we had sent it over to Scotland when we moved as the equivalent Wagon R's available here are made in Europe and just aren't the same standard of equipment and features, sadly. The silly thing about the move by the Japanese government is that these Kei cars are an ideal solution to crowded cities as they require less space on roads and for parking, as well as being (or were) an extremely economical choice. As others here have commented, I suspect there has been lobbying by the makers of large gas-guzzlers to make Kei cars less desirable. I think this decision by Abe's government will inevitably impact Japan's struggling economy - crony politics is notorious in Japan, something which contributed to the design and layout flaws of the Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear plant.
- gambiting 12y ago
  >>All in all, a fantastic vehicle, and I wish we had sent it over to Scotland when we moved as the equivalent Wagon R's available here are made in Europe and just aren't the same standard of equipment and features, sadly. Well, I am glad you enjoyed it in Japan, but I am very happy that cars which do not meet basic NCAP safety standards are not allowed to be sold in the EU.
  - 1stop 12y ago
    Because you need the government to decide what is safe for you or not? I've never understood safety standards for consumer goods. If you want to drive around in a horrible death trap of a car... why should the government stop you? (Admittedly I guess you don't want driving time bombs, but the majority of NCAP standards are related to occupancy safety).
gambiting 12y ago
"Even Ford’s smallest car, the Fiesta subcompact, has a substantially larger engine." I am fairly certain that Ford's smallest car is the Ka[1], not Fiesta. [1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Ka http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Ka
- arethuza 12y ago
  As it's the New York Times it seems likely they are referring to the smallest Ford available in the US - I don't think the Ka is available there.
threedaymonk 12y ago
This reminds me of Happoshu[1]: beer was expensive in Japan because malt content was taxed[2]. Brewers introduced fizzy beer-like beverages with lower malt content ("happoshu"). Beer tax revenues consequently dropped, so the tax on most happoshu was raised to parity with beer. Brewers responded by putting even less malt in their fizzy alcohol drinks. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happoshu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happoshu 2. As I have been led to understand, this was intended to dissuade rice-growing land being switched to barley: Japan seeks to preserve self-sufficiency in rice production.
leorocky 12y ago
Shouldn't it be up to the private automaker to make decisions about the economy of scale of its products or what is better for the private company's future? Why would the government get involved in securing the future of its automakers by taxing a class of products? The only legitimate argument for taxes might be reduced safety features. Does the US government do something like this? Imagine it adding a tax on Apple products or even American cars because of a sales demographic issue?
epaladin 12y ago
Kei cars make perfect sense in Japan- the density in city areas, the lower speed limits (compared to the US), smaller house driveways which could probably fit two kei cars but not two "regular" cars. At some point I saw a house (in either Okazaki or Kanazaa, I forget) that had a Ford Excursion in the driveway, and it stuck halfway into the road- that was a very rare sighting. Most people speak pretty positively of their K-car experiences. Instead of trying to pressure people in Japan into buying larger cars, wouldn't it make more sense to try to reduce the preconceptions about them and develop an export market? It sounds like this attempt will only result in more people ditching cars for scooters again, or dropping down to one car when they previously had two. Cars- of any kind- are already rather expensive to own there. They've already had to replace most of their nuclear power with fossil fuel based sources. Pressuring people into buying less efficient cars seems like a giant backward step for a country that's generally considered to be fairly eco-conscious (when you ignore the past destruction of ecosystems for building, and the effects of concreting all the riverbeds). It's much easier to breathe in Tokyo than Beijing, it would be great if it stayed that way! As an aside, I think Japan's regulation on diesel exhaust for large hauler trucks is actually less strict than the US. I was in Okinawa last year, and there was constant traffic from large construction trucks that were always billowing black exhaust that smelled horrific- it seemed much worse than 18 wheelers here. I also noticed it when I tried backpack from Nagoya to Osaka on a rural road in 2010- the truck exhaust seemed to hang in the air longer and felt more choking than modern truck exhaust in the US (familiar with this from doing distance runs on roadsides).
smoyer 12y ago
I'd buy one of these ... most of my driving is in town and the Kei would be perfect for that type of driving. (Note that our primary car is an eight passenger Sienna with just above half the city fuel economy claimed by the NT100.
Jxnathan 12y ago
For those wondering the definition of "squelch": make a soft sucking sound such as that made by walking heavily through mud.
- panarky 12y ago
  That's one definition of "squelch". The title is probably using the definition that means "suppress": a circuit that suppresses the output of a radio receiver if the signal strength falls below a certain level. https://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Asquelch https://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Asquelch http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squelch http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squelch
BrianEatWorld 12y ago
Curses...and here I was excited that many of the best Keis are finally hitting the 25 year mark and becoming eligible for import into the US. I had my hopes high that they would catch on and actually encourage Japanese brands to bring over some of the cooler Keis.

41 points by austinz 12y ago

josai 12y ago

This is pretty short-sighted, in my opinion. If anything, smaller-sized cars seem likely to become more popular globally, not less. A walk through any chinese city will reveal any number of hand carts and jury-rigged bicycles just begging to be replaced by space- and fuel-efficient microvehicles. As the world moves to cities, cars get smaller. Japan should be capitalising on this trend, trying to spread the culture overseas, not trying to smother it!

quotient 12y ago
I agree. Smaller cars are not only more affordable (both in terms of original price and fuel efficiency) than normal-sized, let alone 'big' cars, but they're also significantly more practical in crowded conditions, with regards to manoeuvring and parking. They don't even necessarily offer less utility than larger cars; they are simply more compact. For these reasons, I think it is likely that smaller vehicles will be adapted in urban centres of developing nations in great number, and they may even gain popularity in developed nations due to their environmental and financial efficiency. If the article in question reports anything even close to the truth, then auto-manufacturers in Japan are making a mistake: they are abandoning their practice precisely when they are really getting their chance to make significant global impact.
dnautics 12y ago
Keynesian economics... Friend to the working class and the end environment. Increase Y at all cost.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
seanmcdirmid 12y ago
I would love to buy a daihatsu copen in the states. These are just fun small cars.
- 2muchcoffeeman 12y ago
  I don't own my own car, I share one at the moment. But if I bought my own, I used to want a Nissan Cube. It's a hilarious looking car and the overall shape just looks so efficient. I never realised they make even smaller more efficient cars (and I have visited Japan). If you don't want to sell these in Japan, send them over to Australia please.

deadghost 12y ago

>But industry and government officials are increasingly worried that these microvehicles have become a distraction for the nation’s automakers — still bastions of the Japanese economy — and are moving to wean drivers off them. In April the government took what its critics charged was a hard-line route. Kei drivers were hit with a triple whammy of a higher sales tax, higher gasoline tax and higher kei car tax, the last of which the government raised by 50 percent, sharply narrowing their tax difference with regular-size vehicles. I feel like there's more going on than the article is saying. "industry and government officials are increasingly worried that these microvehicles have become a distraction for the nation’s automakers" sounds like lobbyists for full-size cars feeding politicians what to say. I don't buy that a bunch of politicians decided it was the for the greater good of the country to increase taxes on a cheap, fuel efficient vehicle.

ekianjo 12y ago
> I don't buy that a bunch of politicians decided it was the for the greater good of the country to increase taxes on a cheap, fuel efficient vehicle. You are right, politicians in Japan are mostly influenced by industry lobbies. They went to devaluated the Yen not too long ago just so that Toyota and a few other major manufacturers could sell more products overseas. And now everything is more expensive in Japan (petrol price increased so all manufacturing goods and anything that needs to be moved around has increased significantly in price).
- po 12y ago
  …just so that Toyota and a few other major manufacturers could sell more products overseas The strong yen was hurting any and all export industries in Japan, not just a few companies. The ability to export at competitive prices is extremely important to the Japanese economy. A devalued yen does drive up the price of imported goods (like fuel) but it also drives demand for jobs. The price of locally produced goods are largely unaffected.
  - ekianjo 12y ago
    Do you go shopping? Because i have seen most of my bills go up. Including food. And not just a little. EDIT: I have been in companies making products in Japan for years and I can tell you the petrol price impacts everything and a weak yen is very detrimental to your product cost structure. If you dont see the prices move much its because the companies are taking the hit as they do not want to raise prices too much and therefore keep prices more or less the same but reduce quantities, or remove ingredients or parts of the products to make it cheaper to produce. But do not kid yourself into believing increased petrol prices because of a weaker yen have no effect on the economy or prices. They clearly do.You basically get less for your money as a consumer.

edandersen 12y ago

Kei cars are (were) cheap, economical, Eco friendly, favourably taxed and actually quite fun to drive. Now they are "too popular" and the government wants everyone to buy larger, less fuel efficient cars - I know someone personally who bought a larger car simply because of the new penalty taxes on Keis. Abe really has lost it.

throwaway_yy2Di 12y ago

Just speculation, maybe this is a result of US pressure in the recent trade talks (trans-Pacific partnership?) It looks like Japan's domestic auto market is a key issue in TPP: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/12/us-trade-asiapacific-japan-idUSBRE93B09R20130412 http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/12/us-trade-asiapacif... (edit): Here's a whole article about US TPP pressure against kei cars: http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2012/01/27/business/lower-tax-rates-for-kei-cars-arent-ok-with-american-automakers/ http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2012/01/27/business/lower-t... "When American automakers expressed their opposition against Japan joining the Trans-Pacific Partnership negotiations due to its closed market, the U.S. makers also pressed Tokyo to end special tax treatment for the country’s unique “kei” super-minivehicle segment." "The outside pressure to end the low taxation for one of Japan’s most popular car segments has jolted the industry, which has protected the smaller end of the domestic car market for half a century." "Some industry observers point out that reviewing the tax rules for the super-mini segment would hit Japanese automakers hard. But others say a review would be a good thing because kei cars have received favorable treatment for too long." Reading those two articles, I think it's credible that US negotiators got a concession from Abe on kei taxes, and we're seeing the result of that. As I understand, this kind of deal would be made in secret (like many aspects of TPP), so we wouldn't be aware of it at this point.

deadghost 12y ago
"Japan also agreed the United States could phase out its auto tariffs, which are 2.5 percent on cars and 25 percent on trucks, over the longest period possible in the future TPP deal. Levin criticized the commitment in that area, saying any phase-out of the U.S. tariffs should be linked to measurable improvement in sales of U.S. cars in Japan." It's all highly suggestive that it's a concession in part of a broader strategy. I'm sure there's a complex interplay of interests going on with the TPP as a whole, US auto, and Japanese auto. US auto seems like it's getting the raw end and may be trying to grab at whatever they can and perhaps the Japanese may be making a large concession in another area(not auto related) to get more automotive foothold in the US. ^complete speculation; I don't know jack about politics/economics/current events.
deciplex 12y ago

Fuxy 12y ago

This is stupid Japanese auto makers were fairing way better in this economic crises than American ones. Why would you like your car companies to be like GM or Ford and fail at the first sign of bad economic times. Everyone is trying to make cars more eco friendly the Japanese seem to be ahead in that regard and now their going to opposite way.

scarygliders 12y ago

This makes me sad. I lived and worked in Japan for 6 years, returning to my native Scotland almost 2 years ago, after struggling for the few years after the M9 quake (lived in Koriyama, Fukushima prefecture and lost my job after the quake). We bought a new Suzuki Wagon R Limited back then, and I loved that car. Its apparently small outward appearance is deceptive; inside, there was loads of space - a high roof height, and when you folded down the rear seats you could comfortably fit items such as chests of drawers, fridges, and the like. The engine; 0.6 litre - but that was augmented by a turbo, so there was plenty of power available, plus it sipped fuel. The automatic gearbox provided 4WD in first gear, which was awesome during winter - we lived in rural parts of Fukushima and the roads frequently iced over. Once during winter we went for a drive up a mountain road covered in about 3 inches of fresh snow and made it to the top of the Katasoniyama mountain because of the 4WD+studless tyres. Our Wagon R Limited also had niceties such as aircon, electric windows, and a minidisc(!)/radio. All in all, a fantastic vehicle, and I wish we had sent it over to Scotland when we moved as the equivalent Wagon R's available here are made in Europe and just aren't the same standard of equipment and features, sadly. The silly thing about the move by the Japanese government is that these Kei cars are an ideal solution to crowded cities as they require less space on roads and for parking, as well as being (or were) an extremely economical choice. As others here have commented, I suspect there has been lobbying by the makers of large gas-guzzlers to make Kei cars less desirable. I think this decision by Abe's government will inevitably impact Japan's struggling economy - crony politics is notorious in Japan, something which contributed to the design and layout flaws of the Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear plant.

gambiting 12y ago
>>All in all, a fantastic vehicle, and I wish we had sent it over to Scotland when we moved as the equivalent Wagon R's available here are made in Europe and just aren't the same standard of equipment and features, sadly. Well, I am glad you enjoyed it in Japan, but I am very happy that cars which do not meet basic NCAP safety standards are not allowed to be sold in the EU.
- 1stop 12y ago
  Because you need the government to decide what is safe for you or not? I've never understood safety standards for consumer goods. If you want to drive around in a horrible death trap of a car... why should the government stop you? (Admittedly I guess you don't want driving time bombs, but the majority of NCAP standards are related to occupancy safety).

gambiting 12y ago

"Even Ford’s smallest car, the Fiesta subcompact, has a substantially larger engine." I am fairly certain that Ford's smallest car is the Ka[1], not Fiesta. [1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Ka http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Ka

arethuza 12y ago
As it's the New York Times it seems likely they are referring to the smallest Ford available in the US - I don't think the Ka is available there.

threedaymonk 12y ago

This reminds me of Happoshu[1]: beer was expensive in Japan because malt content was taxed[2]. Brewers introduced fizzy beer-like beverages with lower malt content ("happoshu"). Beer tax revenues consequently dropped, so the tax on most happoshu was raised to parity with beer. Brewers responded by putting even less malt in their fizzy alcohol drinks. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happoshu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happoshu 2. As I have been led to understand, this was intended to dissuade rice-growing land being switched to barley: Japan seeks to preserve self-sufficiency in rice production.

leorocky 12y ago

Shouldn't it be up to the private automaker to make decisions about the economy of scale of its products or what is better for the private company's future? Why would the government get involved in securing the future of its automakers by taxing a class of products? The only legitimate argument for taxes might be reduced safety features. Does the US government do something like this? Imagine it adding a tax on Apple products or even American cars because of a sales demographic issue?

epaladin 12y ago

Kei cars make perfect sense in Japan- the density in city areas, the lower speed limits (compared to the US), smaller house driveways which could probably fit two kei cars but not two "regular" cars. At some point I saw a house (in either Okazaki or Kanazaa, I forget) that had a Ford Excursion in the driveway, and it stuck halfway into the road- that was a very rare sighting. Most people speak pretty positively of their K-car experiences. Instead of trying to pressure people in Japan into buying larger cars, wouldn't it make more sense to try to reduce the preconceptions about them and develop an export market? It sounds like this attempt will only result in more people ditching cars for scooters again, or dropping down to one car when they previously had two. Cars- of any kind- are already rather expensive to own there. They've already had to replace most of their nuclear power with fossil fuel based sources. Pressuring people into buying less efficient cars seems like a giant backward step for a country that's generally considered to be fairly eco-conscious (when you ignore the past destruction of ecosystems for building, and the effects of concreting all the riverbeds). It's much easier to breathe in Tokyo than Beijing, it would be great if it stayed that way! As an aside, I think Japan's regulation on diesel exhaust for large hauler trucks is actually less strict than the US. I was in Okinawa last year, and there was constant traffic from large construction trucks that were always billowing black exhaust that smelled horrific- it seemed much worse than 18 wheelers here. I also noticed it when I tried backpack from Nagoya to Osaka on a rural road in 2010- the truck exhaust seemed to hang in the air longer and felt more choking than modern truck exhaust in the US (familiar with this from doing distance runs on roadsides).

smoyer 12y ago

I'd buy one of these ... most of my driving is in town and the Kei would be perfect for that type of driving. (Note that our primary car is an eight passenger Sienna with just above half the city fuel economy claimed by the NT100.

Jxnathan 12y ago

For those wondering the definition of "squelch": make a soft sucking sound such as that made by walking heavily through mud.

panarky 12y ago
That's one definition of "squelch". The title is probably using the definition that means "suppress": a circuit that suppresses the output of a radio receiver if the signal strength falls below a certain level. https://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Asquelch https://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Asquelch http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squelch http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squelch

BrianEatWorld 12y ago

Curses...and here I was excited that many of the best Keis are finally hitting the 25 year mark and becoming eligible for import into the US. I had my hopes high that they would catch on and actually encourage Japanese brands to bring over some of the cooler Keis.