3 ms·

If TDD is the best thing on this planet, why have we to discuss about it? Why did not everybody use it? Answer: obviously, it is not the best thing on this pla

by progx 12y ago

If TDD is the best thing on this planet, why have we to discuss about it? Why did not everybody use it? Answer: obviously, it is not the best thing on this planet. Like "use the right tool to solve a problem", use TDD if it solves a problem.

shutton 12y ago
It has it merits and there's some pieces of code I would not want to write without it but those cases (at least of a front-end dev) are remarkably few.
kasey_junk 12y ago
"If TDD is the best thing on this planet, why have we to discuss about it? Why did not everybody use it?" That's a pretty easy logical fallacy. For instance, I've encountered developers who don't use version control. That doesn't imply that you shouldn't use version control because everyone doesn't.
- notastartup 12y ago
  if you use an IDE with local history support like PyCharms or Webstorm, you can view every single save and every line of code you changed. It works just like git diff.
  - icholy 12y ago
    You don't know what you're missing
  - jyu 12y ago
    Now what happens when you are working with one other person using only local history support? What about ten people? What if someone is a bozo programmer and screws up your code accidentally?
    - ithinkso 12y ago
      Do not generalize here, what if he is working alone?
  - pjc50 12y ago
    How does "local history" interact with the other developers on the project?
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - rbonvall 12y ago
    Git is not just about git diff. For example, it gives you the ability to find which changeset introduced a regression by doing a binary search on the history and running tests automatically on each revision. The culprit could be a change made months ago. To do so on an IDE with local history, you'd have to Ctrl-Z backwards all changes (not meaningful commits, but even small changes) linearly.
  - dmiladinov 12y ago
    Oh come now, that's just an extra safety net. Don't take IDEA local history as a replacement to version control, rather a supplement.
  - dragonwriter 12y ago
    That seems like it probably is a passable solution for simple linear history (in certain, single-developer, contexts), but it doesn't sound like it offers much for branching, which I would think you would often end up wanting with most real software even in single-developer set ups.
- vinceguidry 12y ago
  > I've encountered developers who don't use version control. That doesn't imply that you shouldn't use version control because everyone doesn't. His argument wasn't usage, it was controversy. Presumably, these developers you've encountered aren't announcing that version control sucks and you shouldn't use it. They're just not using it themselves, and you'd probably be right if you guessed that they wouldn't have a rational reason for avoiding it. Contrast this with TDD.
  - dragonwriter 12y ago
    > Presumably, these developers you've encountered aren't announcing that version control sucks and you shouldn't use it. I've seen people argue that. The fact that people argue something is bad doesn't mean that it is, in fact, bad.
    - vinceguidry 12y ago
      There's a difference between a few people arguing and a controversy. Admittedly, it's a fuzzy difference, but you could also use the degree of controversy as an indication of just how off the idea is. With DVCS, not much, with TDD, you could conclude that the idea needs more development before you can really rely on it.
      - jbrechtel 12y ago
        | There's a difference between a few people arguing and a controversy. Only on average. We are fully capable of being irrational as large groups...
      - dragonwriter 12y ago
        > you could also use the degree of controversy as an indication of just how off the idea is. That's exactly the ad populum fallacy, so while you could do it, you probably shouldn't.
        vinceguidry 12y ago
lmm 12y ago
> Answer: obviously, it is not the best thing on this planet. Or some people are stupid. The truth doesn't always win out. > Like "use the right tool to solve a problem", use TDD if it solves a problem. You could say that of anything; it doesn't actually help decisionmaking.
steveklabnik 12y ago
"there is reasonable debate about an issue" != "this issue is inherently subjective."

by progx 12y ago

shutton 12y ago

It has it merits and there's some pieces of code I would not want to write without it but those cases (at least of a front-end dev) are remarkably few.

kasey_junk 12y ago

"If TDD is the best thing on this planet, why have we to discuss about it? Why did not everybody use it?" That's a pretty easy logical fallacy. For instance, I've encountered developers who don't use version control. That doesn't imply that you shouldn't use version control because everyone doesn't.

notastartup 12y ago
if you use an IDE with local history support like PyCharms or Webstorm, you can view every single save and every line of code you changed. It works just like git diff.
- icholy 12y ago
  You don't know what you're missing
- jyu 12y ago
  Now what happens when you are working with one other person using only local history support? What about ten people? What if someone is a bozo programmer and screws up your code accidentally?
  - ithinkso 12y ago
    Do not generalize here, what if he is working alone?
- pjc50 12y ago
  How does "local history" interact with the other developers on the project?
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- rbonvall 12y ago
  Git is not just about git diff. For example, it gives you the ability to find which changeset introduced a regression by doing a binary search on the history and running tests automatically on each revision. The culprit could be a change made months ago. To do so on an IDE with local history, you'd have to Ctrl-Z backwards all changes (not meaningful commits, but even small changes) linearly.
- dmiladinov 12y ago
  Oh come now, that's just an extra safety net. Don't take IDEA local history as a replacement to version control, rather a supplement.
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  That seems like it probably is a passable solution for simple linear history (in certain, single-developer, contexts), but it doesn't sound like it offers much for branching, which I would think you would often end up wanting with most real software even in single-developer set ups.
vinceguidry 12y ago
> I've encountered developers who don't use version control. That doesn't imply that you shouldn't use version control because everyone doesn't. His argument wasn't usage, it was controversy. Presumably, these developers you've encountered aren't announcing that version control sucks and you shouldn't use it. They're just not using it themselves, and you'd probably be right if you guessed that they wouldn't have a rational reason for avoiding it. Contrast this with TDD.
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  > Presumably, these developers you've encountered aren't announcing that version control sucks and you shouldn't use it. I've seen people argue that. The fact that people argue something is bad doesn't mean that it is, in fact, bad.
  - vinceguidry 12y ago
    There's a difference between a few people arguing and a controversy. Admittedly, it's a fuzzy difference, but you could also use the degree of controversy as an indication of just how off the idea is. With DVCS, not much, with TDD, you could conclude that the idea needs more development before you can really rely on it.
    - jbrechtel 12y ago
      | There's a difference between a few people arguing and a controversy. Only on average. We are fully capable of being irrational as large groups...
    - dragonwriter 12y ago
      > you could also use the degree of controversy as an indication of just how off the idea is. That's exactly the ad populum fallacy, so while you could do it, you probably shouldn't.
      - vinceguidry 12y ago

lmm 12y ago

> Answer: obviously, it is not the best thing on this planet. Or some people are stupid. The truth doesn't always win out. > Like "use the right tool to solve a problem", use TDD if it solves a problem. You could say that of anything; it doesn't actually help decisionmaking.

steveklabnik 12y ago

"there is reasonable debate about an issue" != "this issue is inherently subjective."