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It's highly recyclable. Aluminium oxide (the result of the reaction in the battery) is one of the feedstocks for industrial aluminium smelting. Recyclable isn't
by dojomouse 12y ago
It's highly recyclable. Aluminium oxide (the result of the reaction in the battery) is one of the feedstocks for industrial aluminium smelting. Recyclable isn't necessarily the same as 'efficient' or 'a good idea' though. It's energy intensive (haven't checked the efficiency of 'recharging'), and additionally has, as a byproduct, massive amounts of CO2 even before considering CO2 emitted in generating the electricity required for the smelting process.
I can't see how that a single use battery like this (which also needs swap infrastructure) has any net advantage over the rechargable swappable packs + fast chargers as Tesla use.
Maybe it could have applications in aerospace where existing lithium ion cells don't have sufficient energy density to even come close to a viable solution. But you'd want to compare it to other 'single use' options like synfuel.
- JoeAltmaier 12y agoMaybe if the aluminum could be packaged as a liquid or a gel, it could be pumped in and out like gas.
- rpedela 12y agoSomething that requires 1,221 F (660.3 C) doesn't seem like something you would want to sit on or pump without serious protection.
- pjc50 12y agoSlurry, not molten. This (aluminium powder suspended in a liquid) was considered as a rocket fuel at one point.
- trhway 12y agoRussian super-sonic solid fuel anti-ship missiles burn aluminum based fuel in their ramjet engines :)
- lotsofmangos 12y agoThe Space Shuttle solid rocket boosters were basically just oxidiser and aluminium powder.
- bane 12y agoJust use aluminum powder or prills. Bonus you get a huge surface area so the reactions happen fast.
- JoeAltmaier 12y agoand just dump the alumina result out the tailpipe - its just ceramic dust. And refill with new powder. So it becomes very much like the process of gasoline fueling.
- rpedela 12y agoI thought ceramic dust was toxic, at least in the large quantities a fleet of cars would produce? Is that not the case?
- JoeAltmaier 12y agoWell, its non-reactive (doesn't break down with low or high ph). But I don't know otherwise. A little Googling shows lots of problems with clay dust (toxins for coloring etc) but nothing about actual fired ceramic dust. For clay it seems to depend upon the particle size in large part. So some control there might help alleviate the risk.
- stcredzero 12y agoIt's energy intensive (haven't checked the efficiency of 'recharging'), and additionally has, as a byproduct, massive amounts of CO2 even before considering CO2 emitted in generating the electricity required for the smelting process. Aw come on! I'd rather see thinking two or more steps ahead from the HN crowd. If the CO2 emitted from the battery's materials came from the atmosphere in the first place, this will be a closed cycle and won't increase global CO2 levels. Supply the power to recycle the aluminum and charge the battery from renewable sources, and you're good. The thing that might sink this is simply the sheer amount of energy needed. There is nothing inherently carbon intensive about it, though.
- sbierwagen 12y ago>If the CO2 emitted from the battery's materials came from the atmosphere in the first place, this will be a closed cycle and won't increase global CO2 levels. The carbon emissions of aluminum smelting come from the carbon electrodes in the electrolytic cell-- you're essentially burning them to pull the oxygen atoms off the aluminum oxide molecule. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_smelting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_smelting Carbon electrodes used in industrial processes are generally formed from processed coal and mineral graphite: the fossiliest of the fossil fuels. You could theoretically produce synthetic bulk carbon from atmospheric CO2 using the Bosch process, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosch_reaction http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosch_reaction) at incredible cost per kilogram of carbon produced, which would then directly increase the cost per kilogram of aluminum smelted.
- stcredzero 12y agoCarbon electrodes used in industrial processes are generally formed from processed coal and mineral graphite: the fossiliest of the fossil fuels. Again, there's no fundamental reason why this must be the case. You could theoretically produce synthetic bulk carbon from atmospheric CO2 using the Bosch process, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosch_reaction http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosch_reaction) at incredible cost per kilogram of carbon produced, which would then directly increase the cost per kilogram of aluminum smelted. Yes, but this is like saying that because our present economic/industrial configuration is the way it is, there's no escape from emitting carbon, which is simply circular logic. Or, maybe you do understand the implication, which is that the only way out is for us to make energy much cheaper across the board.
- jff 12y agoThis particular smelter uses hydroelectric power, mentioned in the article.
- marvin 12y agoMoot point, unfortunately. Hydropower displaces fossil energy if the nearby energy markets are halfway deregulated and efficient.
- zurn 12y agoUnless you're Iceland, with more geothermal and hydro than you know wat to do wit, and too far away from civilization. One of the largest aluminum exporters in the world.
- fancyketchup 12y agoThe power source is immaterial. Industrial-scale smelting produces CO2 at the point of production. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall-H%C3%A9roult_process http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall-H%C3%A9roult_process
- Scoundreller 12y agoThough you might want to read here: http://www.cpcml.ca/Tmld2013/D43129.htm http://www.cpcml.ca/Tmld2013/D43129.htm for a bit of background on the price paid for such electricity.
- jff 12y agoThe communists are against them? Fucking go Alcoa, I say!