9 ms·

I wonder if this has compounded the TBI and concussion issue over the years. I think sports medicine in general has gotten much better and the average player is

by S_A_P 12y ago

I wonder if this has compounded the TBI and concussion issue over the years. I think sports medicine in general has gotten much better and the average player is probably bigger and stronger and thus able to hit harder than 20+ years ago...

zacinbusiness 12y ago
In other words, steroids have become more effective.
- theboss 12y ago
  This actually starts before steroids were invented.
- bps4484 12y ago
  steroids, nutrition, weight training, and specialization have all become more effective.
colmvp 12y ago
I noticed this with the NHL. Players are way more fit resulting in a faster game with more brutal body-checking. That compounded with improved protective equipment has allowed players to have a lot less regard for others safety.
- bernardom 12y ago
  Also, it has become accepted to check a lot more now than in the past. There was an awesome blog post about the '70s-era Broad Street Bullies and how "soft" they look if you're used to today's NHL: http://www.mc79hockey.com/2014/05/the-broad-street-bullies-were-soft/ http://www.mc79hockey.com/2014/05/the-broad-street-bullies-w...
skierscott 12y ago
Malcolm Gladwell has looked at this issue[1]. He sees football as being analogous to dogfighting. Popular at the time and with fans, but the science behind it is scary. I've experienced a severe traumatic brain injury (sTBI), meaning I've seen many brain doctors. I have seen a neuro-omptomolgist (brain-eye doctor) who sees a football player who can't even add up his checkbook (meaning he can't add, not this his checkbook is too complex). I had a therapist who dated a college football player and eventually saw him as more of a patient than a boyfriend. A concussion is now defined as seeing bright spots[2] and is classified as a mild TBI. The results from concussions are cumulative[3], and football is one of the sports most prone to concussion[3]. A football block is defined as being good if you see bright spots or having a concussion, and players often play through this[4]. I'll never let my children play football. [1]:http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/10/19/091019fa_fact_gladwell?currentPage=all http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/10/19/091019fa_fact_... [2]:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concussion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concussion [3]:http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140673675902883 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140673675... [4]:http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/11/05/dont-tell-coach-playing-through-concussions/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0 http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/11/05/dont-tell-coach-pla...
- jleader 12y ago
  I know a few people who do neuropsychological testing (testing IQ, various kinds of memory, spatial reasoning, attention, and so on). Some college athletes are now getting "before" tests, as a baseline to evaluate the severity of damage after any subsequent concussion. One tester says she's seen players attempt to do poorly on the "before" tests, so they'll be able to keep playing even after a concussion impairs their cognitive abilities. This horrifies me more than I can describe.
  - deathhand 12y ago
    Why can't one sell their the cognitive ability if they choose to? If the player is "smart" enough to cheat the test then ultimately it is their choice. Society has deemed their muscles more valuable then their intelligence and I don't think we would be turning towards them for their thoughts on optimizations for database wrappers.
    - leoc 12y ago
      Well, it depends. If you believe that Armin Meiwes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armin_Meiwes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armin_Meiwes is wrongly imprisoned and must be released, then sure; you also win the who's-the-most-consistent-libertarian contest. On the other hand, if you believe that humans possess certain unalienable (which means not revokable, and not relinquishable, even voluntarily) rights, then the fact that the football players are volunteering for brain damage is not necessarily enough to make it okay.
    - pdenya 12y ago
      I agreed with your moral position that it's the players right despite the fact that it's wasteful. Your last sentence is out there though. We're talking about kids in college, no one has put a price on their intelligence yet. Also unnecessary to imply that football players wouldn't be able to do anything useful with their intelligence.
    - jleader 12y ago
      I didn't say they don't have the right to choose (though there's a discussion to be had about how informed their consent really is), I just said that their choice horrifies me. Coincidentally, I've worked with a former Pac-12 football player (who left the game after I think freshman year), and in fact I have sought out his opinions on optimizations for database wrappers (among other subjects). Beware of who you write off with your stereotypes!
danielweber 12y ago
The extreme specialization is bad for the bodies, too. When players are in specific positions, you basically sacrifice other parts of your health in order to be as good as possible at, say, running into another human. Other people point out how 1 group seems to separate into 3. That 1 group had to be good at lots of different things, and while football was probably still a rough sport, there was no chasing of extremes.

by S_A_P 12y ago

zacinbusiness 12y ago

In other words, steroids have become more effective.

theboss 12y ago
This actually starts before steroids were invented.
bps4484 12y ago
steroids, nutrition, weight training, and specialization have all become more effective.

colmvp 12y ago

I noticed this with the NHL. Players are way more fit resulting in a faster game with more brutal body-checking. That compounded with improved protective equipment has allowed players to have a lot less regard for others safety.

bernardom 12y ago
Also, it has become accepted to check a lot more now than in the past. There was an awesome blog post about the '70s-era Broad Street Bullies and how "soft" they look if you're used to today's NHL: http://www.mc79hockey.com/2014/05/the-broad-street-bullies-were-soft/ http://www.mc79hockey.com/2014/05/the-broad-street-bullies-w...

skierscott 12y ago

Malcolm Gladwell has looked at this issue[1]. He sees football as being analogous to dogfighting. Popular at the time and with fans, but the science behind it is scary. I've experienced a severe traumatic brain injury (sTBI), meaning I've seen many brain doctors. I have seen a neuro-omptomolgist (brain-eye doctor) who sees a football player who can't even add up his checkbook (meaning he can't add, not this his checkbook is too complex). I had a therapist who dated a college football player and eventually saw him as more of a patient than a boyfriend. A concussion is now defined as seeing bright spots[2] and is classified as a mild TBI. The results from concussions are cumulative[3], and football is one of the sports most prone to concussion[3]. A football block is defined as being good if you see bright spots or having a concussion, and players often play through this[4]. I'll never let my children play football. [1]:http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/10/19/091019fa_fact_gladwell?currentPage=all http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/10/19/091019fa_fact_... [2]:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concussion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concussion [3]:http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140673675902883 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140673675... [4]:http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/11/05/dont-tell-coach-playing-through-concussions/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0 http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/11/05/dont-tell-coach-pla...

jleader 12y ago
I know a few people who do neuropsychological testing (testing IQ, various kinds of memory, spatial reasoning, attention, and so on). Some college athletes are now getting "before" tests, as a baseline to evaluate the severity of damage after any subsequent concussion. One tester says she's seen players attempt to do poorly on the "before" tests, so they'll be able to keep playing even after a concussion impairs their cognitive abilities. This horrifies me more than I can describe.
- deathhand 12y ago
  Why can't one sell their the cognitive ability if they choose to? If the player is "smart" enough to cheat the test then ultimately it is their choice. Society has deemed their muscles more valuable then their intelligence and I don't think we would be turning towards them for their thoughts on optimizations for database wrappers.
  - leoc 12y ago
    Well, it depends. If you believe that Armin Meiwes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armin_Meiwes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armin_Meiwes is wrongly imprisoned and must be released, then sure; you also win the who's-the-most-consistent-libertarian contest. On the other hand, if you believe that humans possess certain unalienable (which means not revokable, and not relinquishable, even voluntarily) rights, then the fact that the football players are volunteering for brain damage is not necessarily enough to make it okay.
  - pdenya 12y ago
    I agreed with your moral position that it's the players right despite the fact that it's wasteful. Your last sentence is out there though. We're talking about kids in college, no one has put a price on their intelligence yet. Also unnecessary to imply that football players wouldn't be able to do anything useful with their intelligence.
  - jleader 12y ago
    I didn't say they don't have the right to choose (though there's a discussion to be had about how informed their consent really is), I just said that their choice horrifies me. Coincidentally, I've worked with a former Pac-12 football player (who left the game after I think freshman year), and in fact I have sought out his opinions on optimizations for database wrappers (among other subjects). Beware of who you write off with your stereotypes!

danielweber 12y ago

The extreme specialization is bad for the bodies, too. When players are in specific positions, you basically sacrifice other parts of your health in order to be as good as possible at, say, running into another human. Other people point out how 1 group seems to separate into 3. That 1 group had to be good at lots of different things, and while football was probably still a rough sport, there was no chasing of extremes.