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NFL players: height and weight over time
- nubs 12y agoVery interesting how you can definitely see 3 distinct groups emerge in recent years. I'm guessing linesmen are the majority of the group that really shifts over to the right.
- scott_s 12y agoThat was my thought, too. I'm guessing the group on the far right are the linemen, the group on the far left are the receivers, and the middle group are those that cover the receivers. What I find most interesting is that there's a clear gulf between the (probable) linemen on the far right and the others. That middle ground is probably not best suited for any role - if you're chasing the receivers, you're going to be too slow, and if you're trying to protect or attack the line, you're going to be too small.
- dpeck 12y agoMiddle group is likely to be primarily made up of linebackers, running backs, with a few of the larger tight ends there as well. These players, while having some responsibility in the passing game are primarily involved in either running the ball, or defending against the run. And having a bit more mass there is very beneficial, but they still need to be able to have the speed to be able to work horizontal across the field and sometimes be quite a ways away from the line of scrimmage by the end of the play.
- maxerickson 12y agoincision's link, in a top level comment, has a plot that distinguishes positions. (Modern) Tight ends are heavier than linebackers, then quarterbacks, then running backs.
- jackschultz 12y agoThe group on the far left would be the defensive backs actually. That position is best suited for the little and quick guys. While receivers can, and are small (think a Wes Welker type), receivers are also enormous (Calvin Johnson). If a corner were the size of Johnson, for example, the team would put him in as a receiver since that's more valuable. Take a look at this reddit post with more detailed information that's position based. http://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/1oh47i/height_and_weight_of_all_active_nfl_players_by/ http://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/1oh47i/heig...
- chiph 12y agoWilliam "The Fridge" Perry was probably the inspiration for the absolutely huge linesmen of today. That separation started a little bit after his seasons with The Bears. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Perry_(American_football) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Perry_(American_footbal...
- MisterBastahrd 12y agoProbably not as much as you think, because he really wasn't that good of a football player and made his name as a situational fullback. The Cowboys offensive lines of the early 90s are probably the blueprint for the current NFL offensive lines. Those guys were freaking enormous compared to the average line, and it's the main reason why Emmitt Smith is a household name.
- chiph 12y agoNo question those guys were bigger. Mark Tuinei was 6'5", 310 lbs. Larry Allen was (at the time) 6'3" 325 lbs. Tuinei was a contemporary with Perry in the mid-late 80's, but Allen wasn't drafted until the mid-90's. I still say that Perry was an inspiration. :) edit Fix team name. Ooops.
- Steko 12y agoThe Cowboys themselves were modeled after the Hogs and Giants offensive lines of the 80's. The competing archtype in the late 80's early 90's was the lighter, more agile offensive lines of the 49ers.
- MisterBastahrd 12y agoI'd agree with that. The 49ers of that era were able to benefit from a lack of a salary cap. They were stacked across the board. It was the place you went when you were an aging star who wanted to win a ring. They wanted those more nimble guys because of the crazy pass rush of the other teams in their division and conference.
- sheri 12y agoThe middle group as mentioned is a mix of linebackers, tight-ends and also running backs. > That middle ground is probably not best suited for any role Modern NFL is very specialized. You have linebackers of various sizes who are used in situational conditions (passing vs running downs), and also vary in size/height based on the defensive scheme. e.g. A linebacker in a Cover-2 based defense is probably lighter/faster vs a larger linebacker used in a 3-4 defense.
- hluska 12y agoI am a baseball fan so I am biased, but when I saw those groups form, my first thought was performance enhancing drugs. I sure hope there is another reason...
- andrewgjohnson 12y agoInteresting, by position would probably be more interesting. Or "position group" e.g. DB's, CB's & S's
- valarauca1 12y agoIf they position by color gradient, color 'darkening' with contraction. QB's blues, linesmen red, receivers green, etc.
- incision 12y agoCraig M. Booth has done some very nice visualizations on this subject [1]. I found this chart comparing height/weight of 2013 rosters by position [2] particularly interesting and this set [3] covers a question that anyone who has read Outliers has probably wondered about. 1: http://www.craigmbooth.com/category/nfl/ http://www.craigmbooth.com/category/nfl/ 2: http://www.craigmbooth.com/height-and-weight-of-every-active-football-player/ http://www.craigmbooth.com/height-and-weight-of-every-active... 3: http://www.sportsballweekly.com/the-relative-age-effect-in-pro-sports/ http://www.sportsballweekly.com/the-relative-age-effect-in-p...
- 3JPLW 12y agoUgh, on [3], watch out for the non-zero axes. NHL and NBA start their axes at 0, while the others do not. Very tricky, and very deceiving. I think NFL would look very similar to NBA if plotted the same way (they're both within ~10-15% of the expected value).
- pinars 12y agoMy guess with NBA players would be that the proportional increase in their heights would be higher. Does anyone know changes to average weight/height for the population in the US?
- rubiquity 12y agoI think it would be average weight for NBA players. Modern NBA players are a lot more muscular.
- ronaldx 12y agoThe author points out in the text that the NFL result is statistically significant and the NBA result is not. A larger random sample ought to fall closer to the line than a smaller sample: it would be statistically highly remarkable if the graphs did look similar with zeroed axes - the larger sample should look much flatter. Starting both graphs from zero is unhelpful if the goal is correct visual interpretation.
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- S_A_P 12y agoI wonder if this has compounded the TBI and concussion issue over the years. I think sports medicine in general has gotten much better and the average player is probably bigger and stronger and thus able to hit harder than 20+ years ago...
- zacinbusiness 12y agoIn other words, steroids have become more effective.
- colmvp 12y agoI noticed this with the NHL. Players are way more fit resulting in a faster game with more brutal body-checking. That compounded with improved protective equipment has allowed players to have a lot less regard for others safety.
- bernardom 12y agoAlso, it has become accepted to check a lot more now than in the past. There was an awesome blog post about the '70s-era Broad Street Bullies and how "soft" they look if you're used to today's NHL: http://www.mc79hockey.com/2014/05/the-broad-street-bullies-were-soft/ http://www.mc79hockey.com/2014/05/the-broad-street-bullies-w...
- skierscott 12y agoMalcolm Gladwell has looked at this issue[1]. He sees football as being analogous to dogfighting. Popular at the time and with fans, but the science behind it is scary. I've experienced a severe traumatic brain injury (sTBI), meaning I've seen many brain doctors. I have seen a neuro-omptomolgist (brain-eye doctor) who sees a football player who can't even add up his checkbook (meaning he can't add, not this his checkbook is too complex). I had a therapist who dated a college football player and eventually saw him as more of a patient than a boyfriend. A concussion is now defined as seeing bright spots[2] and is classified as a mild TBI. The results from concussions are cumulative[3], and football is one of the sports most prone to concussion[3]. A football block is defined as being good if you see bright spots or having a concussion, and players often play through this[4]. I'll never let my children play football. [1]:http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/10/19/091019fa_fact_gladwell?currentPage=all http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/10/19/091019fa_fact_... [2]:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concussion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concussion [3]:http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140673675902883 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140673675... [4]:http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/11/05/dont-tell-coach-playing-through-concussions/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0 http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/11/05/dont-tell-coach-pla...
- AlexMcP 12y agoWhat sort of method would be used to cluster those, statistically speaking? Like, given a data set like that, how would you determine if the distribution is multi-modal or unimodal?
- GrantS 12y agoMean shift clustering, for one. This short PDF provides better insight than wikipedia. Does NOT require you to specify the number of clusters like in K-means: http://homepages.inf.ed.ac.uk/rbf/CVonline/LOCAL_COPIES/TUZEL1/MeanShift.pdf http://homepages.inf.ed.ac.uk/rbf/CVonline/LOCAL_COPIES/TUZE... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mean-shift http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mean-shift Example python code using scikit-learn: http://scikit-learn.org/stable/auto_examples/cluster/plot_mean_shift.html http://scikit-learn.org/stable/auto_examples/cluster/plot_me...
- AlexMcP 12y agoAwesome! Thanks for the knowledge
- 1238488462662 12y agoSteroids. Relevant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigger,_Stronger,_Faster* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigger,_Stronger,_Faster*
- logn 12y agoSteroids don't make you taller. Also if you devote yourself to nutrition and weight lifting, as a 6 foot male it's not too hard to exceed 200 pounds. I don't doubt steroids play a part, but there are many other factors (in addition to just the fact that football became a national obsession so is attracting more potential players). And prior to 1940, the same players played offense and defense, along with limited substitutions. These days, players not only play one position but are often substituted out depending on the particular play or formation. That lets players specialize and, I'd argue, put on body mass for their more limited role.
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- 1238488462662 12y agoWatch the movie.
- menssen 12y agoAlso if you habitually neglect nutrition and weight lifting, as a 6 foot male it's not too hard to exceed 200 pounds.
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- panzagl 12y agoThe WWII years ('42-'45) have more of a range than before or after, presumably because of the draft.
- derekjobst 12y agoWhat's interesting is before the 1970's it appears as though there is just one group of players, at which point they become three. Then, over the following 40 years these groups seems to just get heavier - most likely a response by teams to maintain heavier players than their opponents in certain positions. While the general growth over time makes sense, I wonder what caused the shift specifically in the 70's.
- altcognito 12y agoSo, weight training and anabolic steroids really take off in this time period. The added strength probably means players can still move that massive body weight at the same speeds (or, in most cases, much, much faster) than someone who doesn't add bulk muscle as modern NFL players do. NFL players are absolutely, positively freakishly fast for their size.
- maxerickson 12y agoEverybody is saying steroids, but another thing that happened around the 1970-80s is that college football became a much bigger business: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_football_on_television#Decentralization http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_football_on_television#...
- derekjobst 12y agoOh, that is very interesting.
- mkhaytman 12y agoI'd like to see how the general population changed in the same time, then maybe a revision of this graph keeping it in perspective of how the rest of the population changed.
- romanovcode 12y agoI don't think general population changed at all.
- lukeschlather 12y agohttp://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/ad/ad347.pdf http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/ad/ad347.pdf > Conclusions: > Average weight has increased dramatically in the last 40 years with the greatest increases seen in adults. Mean BMI has also increased. Although height has also increased this increase has been much more modest.
- unreal37 12y agoI think it's fair to say the average weight of the general population has grown quite a bit in the past century...
- jusben1369 12y agoI don't mean this in a trolling way but do you really think the US population overall isn't going to be taller and heavier from 1927 till today?
- troymc 12y agoThere has been a general increase in human height, in developed countries, for many decades. Some references: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/09/130902101714.htm http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/09/130902101714.ht... http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/ad/ad347.pdf http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/ad/ad347.pdf
- jusben1369 12y agoYes! That's what I came here to type. What does it really mean if this actually tracks to the general population?
- amiramir 12y agoI'd be interested in a similar chart for rugby union where my guess is that the increase in height and weight has happened more quickly. It's just a hunch but I am guessing that overall size in rugby has increased dramatically since the sport went professional in 1995.
- arethuza 12y agoHere is an interesting article on the size of rugby players: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/legacy/tomfordyce/2012/03/land_of_the_rugby_giants.html http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/legacy/tomfordyce/2012/03/land_of...
- nichochar 12y agoFasinating, reminds me of a great TED talk about this: "Are athletes really getting bigger, faster, stronger?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8COaMKbNrX0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8COaMKbNrX0 tl;dr: no
- romanovcode 12y agoDon't forget about steroid usage since 1950's. Even olympic athlete trainers don't hide this fact.[0] [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIiIKB7uDCc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIiIKB7uDCc
- moron4hire 12y agoMy biggest take-away: the smallest guys today are in the median of players from the 20s. The biggest players from the 20s would only be in the lower quartile of the players today. There is nobody today as small as the smallest players from the 20s.
- Volscio 12y agoThe visualization looks like Conway's game of life.
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- robotcookies 12y agoHow accurate are these figures? I know that many teams will inflate the posted weight and height of their players. There is no regulation requiring that the publicly posted figures are accurate so they nudge them higher for psychological effect.
- nbardy 12y agoThat is a problem in college, but once they hit pro they've gone through the combine and they are measured.
- tohmeiphun 12y agoThe player equipment has also become much more advanced, but is it helping or hurting? They should go back to leather helmets and no pads (like rugby) and see what happens.
- rasz_pl 12y ago+1 this. My guess is one season of natural selection would be enough to change players behaviour.
- Florin_Andrei 12y agoFantastic viz. So, they pushed up on the height parameter, but hit a ceiling. Then they've started to push further on the weight parameter, where the "ceiling" is more flexible. You can bulk up to some extent, but your height is pretty much a given.
- kghose 12y agoApparently the breeding program is working.
- DavidSJ 12y agoIt seems to become bimodal towards the last decade or two. Any idea as to why?
- vpontis 12y agoI noticed that too. It looks like their is a further specialization into linemen and "skill" players. Linemen need all of the weight they can get where "skill" players want to be bigger and stronger to some extent but still need to be agile.
- diziet 12y agoSeparation between light and fast players/roles and heavy and powerful players/roles.
- brownbat 12y agoI'm mostly stuck thinking about this in terms of tanks and spellcasters thanks to PA: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2013/01/18 http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2013/01/18
- guelo 12y agoSeems like they don't have any use for 280 pounders nowadays.
- bergerjac 12y agotoo heavy for a TE, too light for an OL/DL
- mathattack 12y agoI find it interesting that a break appears in 1993 where the Extremely Huge (lineman) separate from those merely Very Large. My old man once commented that he his Big 10 college alma mater once had someone on the football team whose only virtue was being 275 pounds.
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- torbit 12y agoAnytime I see a post about football I wonder how it is different from rugby, so I'll just post this intresting article "In rugby, the only collision (i.e., running at speed for the purpose of forcing a player to the ground) is when one has the ball. The other 29 lads on the pitch are there for support. In American football, 21 of the 22 players had better be colliding with someone on every down - at full speed. In gridiron, there is collision while blocking. In rugby, the equivalent is called "obstruction" and is illegal, thus there are far more opportunities - requirements - for player collision in American football." http://wesclark.com/rrr/pads_and_helmets.html http://wesclark.com/rrr/pads_and_helmets.html
- markdown 12y agoAnother factor is the lack of a helmet and padding. Because of this, players are much more careful when tackling. Eg: * NEVER leading with the head, which is quite common in American Football * There must be an attempt to wrap your arms around the player. Not doing so is a shoulder charge, and illegal. * High tackles (above the shoulders) are illegal and can result in yellow or red card depending on severity. * Spear tackles (picking the player up and driving him into the ground head-first) are grounds for a red card.
- girvo 12y agoI'm an ex referee, used to ref first grade club and schoolboy rugby in SEQ. I've seen first hand why those rules are in place. I will disagree with having the ball being the only collision points however: rucks, mauls and scrums (the latter of which are neutered now) involved any number of players but still don't quite compare to the one on one that NFL involves. Fascinating sports IMO :)
- markdown 12y ago> the latter of which are neutered now Only if you're talking about Rugby League.
- 12y ago
- Theodores 12y agoThis article serves to illustrate how different America is from the rest of the world. Outside America nobody knows what NFL is beyond that it is some strange variant on the football theme, related to football in no more way than how a whale is related to a dog. Then there are 'customary units'. Outside America nobody knows what a pound of weight is, is that pound of 'customary units' the same as an 'Imperial' pound? Nobody knows, particularly when applied to body weight. The height situation is better, there are places like the UK where Imperial measurements are used for height, but, in mainland Europe and beyond, I doubt anyone knows what 6' tall means. I imagine that in America it is hard to see this perspective on how different America is, and, most of the time with most HN stories there is no cultural barrier to understanding things, yet this story is an edge case and reminds me how different American culture really is.
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- mahranch 12y ago> Outside America nobody knows what NFL is beyond that it is some strange variant on the football theme I think this is extremely misinformed. Did you know that there is a world cup for gridiron football? It's the IFAF World Championship. And believe it or not, Japan is ranked 1st right now, with the U.S ranked second. American football was pretty well known in Japan and before I left, was becoming increasingly more popular among high school and college aged kids. The also continually sell out games in London every year. The broadcasts there get extremely high ratings. I think the "myth" that the rest of the world doesn't know what American football is died sometime in the 90s. It's been on the rise globally: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/13/sports/football/13iht-nflchina13.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/13/sports/football/13iht-nflc...
- rlanday 12y agoWhy are you complaining on an American internet community about our choice of unit system and the terminology we use for naming different sports? The United States has distinct cultural features just like every other country. I waste a fair amount of time arguing on the internet, but I’ve never felt the need to find articles about European football and complain that people shouldn’t call soccer “football” because American football is better, that people who use the metric system feel compelled to tell other people they’re stupid for using different systems, and that Europeans are jerks for charging for restroom access and restaurants not giving free soda refills.
- bane 12y agoI like how in the 80s, height stopped increasing, but weight kept increasing, and a little blog of the highest weights just shot out to the right. I live very close to one of the pro team's training camps, and see the players around town every once in a while. Professional athletes like this are truly in a league of their own. You can go to any random gym and look for the guys there in peak physical condition. The pro-NFL guys stand out easily in a crowd of gym guys. Not just the really huge guys, but you can spot one of the "smaller" players from a mile away. Their musculature and body motions are simply superhuman. It's something very very hard to see on TV when they're surrounded by their peers.
- supercanuck 12y ago>and a little blog of the highest weights just shot out to the right Offensive Lineman and Defensive Tackles.
- smky80 12y agoNot all of them though. http://theloveofsports.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/tom_brady_nfl_draft_combine_2000.jpg http://theloveofsports.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/t... Been looking for a Sebastian Janikowski draft picture but couldn't find one.
- evilduck 12y agoI used to live a couple miles from the Saints training facility and shopped pretty frequently at the grocery store across the street where encountering players was somewhat common. I'm 6'4", 215lbs and don't often experience what being small feels like... except when I'm standing next to NFL linemen. They're just huge.
- markb139 12y agoI wonder what the same animation would look like for sw developers. Im 6ft6 and 252lbs. Though being a Brit I'd say 6ft6 and 18 stone or even 2m and 114.5 kg.
- Evgeny 12y agoAnyone can recommend an API or tutorial on how I could create similar visualisations myself or use a third party tool?
- user24 12y agoLook at D3 or Raphael :)
- cafard 12y agoOne could probably bring the weight back down by strictly limiting substitution. Until the late 1950s a lot of players played on both sides of the line of scrimmage.