5 ms·

What makes you think agents of the American state have any more shame than various other examples of thugs run amok throughout history?

adventured 12y ago
There is still a wide-spread belief that the agents of the burgeoning US police state are 'just people like everyone else,' that are 'just trying to do their jobs.'
- jhart3333 12y ago
  Thanks for speaking for me. Actually I would rather speak for myself. Try citing a study or some statistics next time.
- pyre 12y ago
  So they are not people, and most definitely are not attempting to do their jobs in any way, shape or fashion? Gotcha.
  - deciplex 12y ago
    They are people, and they are doing their jobs. It's just that people are capable of horrible crimes, and these jobs shouldn't exist. And nothing works better at implementing a police state than a fervent belief that your nation and culture are somehow 'special' and occupy a unique place in history. It allows you to disregard hard-learned lessons of the past. Lessons like 'Tyranny lurks always just around the corner, and the speed and ease with which it will manifest itself, is as breathtaking as it is terrifying."
    - jacquesm 12y ago
      The jobs should exist but there should be some actual oversight with serious penalties for transgressions.
      - deciplex 12y ago
        Heh, to be clear I'm not saying there should be no police, rather that what these police are doing shouldn't be part of the job description.
- josephlord 12y ago
  Isn't the real problem the extent of the damage, harm and evil that can be done by people who are 'just people like everyone else,' that are 'just trying to do their jobs.' See Millgram experiment and any totalitarian state ever. Note that I am not saying that the US is totalitarian but that the wide-spread belief that you mention can be completely valid and you can still be in trouble.
  - waps 12y ago
    1) the milgram experiment was a case of academic fraud. 2) you'd think that on the 25th anniversary of the Tienanmen square massacre people would back off off the claims that the US is even a little bit totalitarian. 25 years ago this day, the Chinese state killed at least 1000 people and imprisoned, tortured and worse several tens of thousands more. Why ? Because a student union tried to create a second political party (and was succeeding). And no one cares today. The US has a long, long way to fall before getting to that level. 3) why is tracing cell phones such a problem ? How can anyone possibly believe anything other than that cell phones constantly broadcast who they are and their number to companies that are logging those broadcasts ? That's how the fucking system works. The police can somewhat shortcut that process to get a little bit more accurate information. Furthermore the main reason phones are broadcasting their location as accurately as possible is to aim antennas on them ... Why ? Because that way the carrier can support a greater density of phones and a greater density of antennas. Before long this will be accurate to within a few centimeters (and I don't imagine it will stop there). If you want more bandwith on mobile, we have to do this. I feel this is like complaining your car sometimes drives ... Yes the effect on privacy is bad (assuming the compromise of turning off transmitters is too much to ask, as it clearly is), but it's how the technology works. This is the same principle at work as "information wants to be free". Copyrighted works are available for free, because the technology to block transmission will always lose to technology to transmit. But the same goes for any information. There are a million valid reasons to broadcast information about you and of around you, one of which is a cell phone network. That means that where you are, what you're doing, who you're with ... will tend to become public information over time.
    - crusso 12y ago

adventured 12y ago

There is still a wide-spread belief that the agents of the burgeoning US police state are 'just people like everyone else,' that are 'just trying to do their jobs.'

jhart3333 12y ago
Thanks for speaking for me. Actually I would rather speak for myself. Try citing a study or some statistics next time.
pyre 12y ago
So they are not people, and most definitely are not attempting to do their jobs in any way, shape or fashion? Gotcha.
- deciplex 12y ago
  They are people, and they are doing their jobs. It's just that people are capable of horrible crimes, and these jobs shouldn't exist. And nothing works better at implementing a police state than a fervent belief that your nation and culture are somehow 'special' and occupy a unique place in history. It allows you to disregard hard-learned lessons of the past. Lessons like 'Tyranny lurks always just around the corner, and the speed and ease with which it will manifest itself, is as breathtaking as it is terrifying."
  - jacquesm 12y ago
    The jobs should exist but there should be some actual oversight with serious penalties for transgressions.
    - deciplex 12y ago
      Heh, to be clear I'm not saying there should be no police, rather that what these police are doing shouldn't be part of the job description.
josephlord 12y ago
Isn't the real problem the extent of the damage, harm and evil that can be done by people who are 'just people like everyone else,' that are 'just trying to do their jobs.' See Millgram experiment and any totalitarian state ever. Note that I am not saying that the US is totalitarian but that the wide-spread belief that you mention can be completely valid and you can still be in trouble.
- waps 12y ago
  1) the milgram experiment was a case of academic fraud. 2) you'd think that on the 25th anniversary of the Tienanmen square massacre people would back off off the claims that the US is even a little bit totalitarian. 25 years ago this day, the Chinese state killed at least 1000 people and imprisoned, tortured and worse several tens of thousands more. Why ? Because a student union tried to create a second political party (and was succeeding). And no one cares today. The US has a long, long way to fall before getting to that level. 3) why is tracing cell phones such a problem ? How can anyone possibly believe anything other than that cell phones constantly broadcast who they are and their number to companies that are logging those broadcasts ? That's how the fucking system works. The police can somewhat shortcut that process to get a little bit more accurate information. Furthermore the main reason phones are broadcasting their location as accurately as possible is to aim antennas on them ... Why ? Because that way the carrier can support a greater density of phones and a greater density of antennas. Before long this will be accurate to within a few centimeters (and I don't imagine it will stop there). If you want more bandwith on mobile, we have to do this. I feel this is like complaining your car sometimes drives ... Yes the effect on privacy is bad (assuming the compromise of turning off transmitters is too much to ask, as it clearly is), but it's how the technology works. This is the same principle at work as "information wants to be free". Copyrighted works are available for free, because the technology to block transmission will always lose to technology to transmit. But the same goes for any information. There are a million valid reasons to broadcast information about you and of around you, one of which is a cell phone network. That means that where you are, what you're doing, who you're with ... will tend to become public information over time.
  - crusso 12y ago