4 ms·

I don't like the idea of lumping all "drugs" together. I don't like it when the government does it and I don't like it when well meaning individuals do it. Wh

by h1karu 12y ago

I don't like the idea of lumping all "drugs" together. I don't like it when the government does it and I don't like it when well meaning individuals do it. While I generally don't approve of the practice of men with guns threatening violence to those who would ingest certain plants I do think that of all the drugs known to man LSD makes the strongest case for some form of restriction. I think that perhaps it alone should be restricted in the same way that access to plutonium is restricted, with the aside that individuals who would like enough for their own personal use should of course be granted (free) access. You see the problem with that particular problem child is that enough LSD to dose every man woman and child on earth could be produced in a single lab and held within a coffee cup which makes it uniquely dangerous as a weapon of mass oppression if it were to fall into the wrong hands. Also the fact that you can't easily test a substance for LSD increases the liklihood of individuals being exposed who did not wish to be exposed. Therefor the risks that it will be used as a kind of weapon against unsuspecting populations is too great relative to other drugs. I'd also like to point out that LSD doesn't seem to universally help people in the way that responsible amounts of MDMA (and arguably cannabis) does. I don't think there is a justification for the restriction of other psychedelics that don't have these risks of weaponization such as various mushrooms, cactai, certain vines, etc.

Nursie 12y ago
LSD is not unique in being of that sort of potency. There are several other related ergoloids that are of similar potency (though usually a bit less). Some of the psychedelic amphetamines fall into this category too. Many have doses in the sub-1mg range. Some exotics (Bromo-dragonfly) are not only effective in the same dose range as LSD, but last several times as long and are far more toxic. The LD50 of LSD is quite forgiving as I understand it, with BDF it is not and people have died. There are other substances that border on poison - carfentanil is an opiate used to stun elephants and is active in humans at the 1ug range. I also dislike the catch-all term 'drugs', but LSD is not entirely unique in its potency.
- h1karu 12y ago
  wonders never cease, thank you for the information.
- girvo 12y ago
  There are even opiates that are in that realm of potency: some of which are an order of magnitude stronger!
swombat 12y ago
> You see the problem with that particular problem child is that enough LSD to dose every man woman and child on earth could be produced in a single lab and held within a coffee cup which makes it uniquely dangerous as a weapon of mass oppression if it were to fall into the wrong hands. Also the fact that you can't easily test a substance for LSD increases the liklihood of individuals being exposed who did not wish to be exposed. How the hell would you use LSD in that way "for oppression" or "as a weapon"? The main effect seems to be to cause uncontrollable giddiness and happiness. The British Military actually tried to use LSD as a weapon. This was the result when they tested it against soldiers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SX7m4fqTLKU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SX7m4fqTLKU Needless to say, the "weapon" potential was quickly dismissed. Edit: Here's a US equivalent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUQNqIIGN88 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUQNqIIGN88 In short, LSD causes people to disregard authority, act chaotically and unpredictably, lose their ability to follow orders. It's also highly volatile so likely to backfire on the people administering it, causing them to get high too. From more direct experience, I can also say that LSD causes you to re-examine fundamental beliefs in quite an intense way. Not at all what you want to use on a population you want to control. In fact, if you were a dictator trying to retain control of an oppressed population, you should probably do everything in your power to avoid mass use of LSD in that population.
- h1karu 12y ago
  The details of how such a substance could be weaponized and how such munitions may have been deployed in the past is a sensitive subject not well suited for this forum. A wealth of information has been made available in the past decade or two via the freedom of information act but not much of it has found it's way into the 'for public consumption' version of history. My intention was merely to reference this unique "problem" associated with extremely potent psychedellics in broad terms without dredging up references to particular incidents or organizations. You can do your own research in this area. Also your personal experiences only apply to normal doses of LSD you have no idea what it can do to someone at extreme doses, nor are you referencing experiments where such doses were tested. again, I'm not aruging in favor of restricting individuals from access to personal doses, I think that would be a good thing. I just don't want to live in a world where any psychopath can get his hands of billions of doses. This is not something you have to worry about with most other drugs because with most other drugs you can't produce that many doses all at once and transport it easily. I just wanted to point out that this unusual property exists with respect to LSD and it complicates matters.
corpselord420 12y ago
hahaha holy shit this is the most misinformed conception of what lsd is i've ever read, fucking incredible. 'weapon against unsuspecting populations' what the fuck? it's not a fucking nerve agent it makes you think weird for 12 hours
Scoundreller 12y ago
What, if anything, has already prevented any nation-state from conducting this synthesis? Isn't the cat out of the bag already?
pstuart 12y ago
Sorry, but I don't want anybody telling me what chemicals I can ingest. That should be my choice, thank you very much. Enforcement of purity, taxation on sale, restrictions on advertising and access to children sounds ok.

by h1karu 12y ago

Nursie 12y ago

LSD is not unique in being of that sort of potency. There are several other related ergoloids that are of similar potency (though usually a bit less). Some of the psychedelic amphetamines fall into this category too. Many have doses in the sub-1mg range. Some exotics (Bromo-dragonfly) are not only effective in the same dose range as LSD, but last several times as long and are far more toxic. The LD50 of LSD is quite forgiving as I understand it, with BDF it is not and people have died. There are other substances that border on poison - carfentanil is an opiate used to stun elephants and is active in humans at the 1ug range. I also dislike the catch-all term 'drugs', but LSD is not entirely unique in its potency.

h1karu 12y ago
wonders never cease, thank you for the information.
girvo 12y ago
There are even opiates that are in that realm of potency: some of which are an order of magnitude stronger!

swombat 12y ago

> You see the problem with that particular problem child is that enough LSD to dose every man woman and child on earth could be produced in a single lab and held within a coffee cup which makes it uniquely dangerous as a weapon of mass oppression if it were to fall into the wrong hands. Also the fact that you can't easily test a substance for LSD increases the liklihood of individuals being exposed who did not wish to be exposed. How the hell would you use LSD in that way "for oppression" or "as a weapon"? The main effect seems to be to cause uncontrollable giddiness and happiness. The British Military actually tried to use LSD as a weapon. This was the result when they tested it against soldiers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SX7m4fqTLKU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SX7m4fqTLKU Needless to say, the "weapon" potential was quickly dismissed. Edit: Here's a US equivalent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUQNqIIGN88 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUQNqIIGN88 In short, LSD causes people to disregard authority, act chaotically and unpredictably, lose their ability to follow orders. It's also highly volatile so likely to backfire on the people administering it, causing them to get high too. From more direct experience, I can also say that LSD causes you to re-examine fundamental beliefs in quite an intense way. Not at all what you want to use on a population you want to control. In fact, if you were a dictator trying to retain control of an oppressed population, you should probably do everything in your power to avoid mass use of LSD in that population.

h1karu 12y ago
The details of how such a substance could be weaponized and how such munitions may have been deployed in the past is a sensitive subject not well suited for this forum. A wealth of information has been made available in the past decade or two via the freedom of information act but not much of it has found it's way into the 'for public consumption' version of history. My intention was merely to reference this unique "problem" associated with extremely potent psychedellics in broad terms without dredging up references to particular incidents or organizations. You can do your own research in this area. Also your personal experiences only apply to normal doses of LSD you have no idea what it can do to someone at extreme doses, nor are you referencing experiments where such doses were tested. again, I'm not aruging in favor of restricting individuals from access to personal doses, I think that would be a good thing. I just don't want to live in a world where any psychopath can get his hands of billions of doses. This is not something you have to worry about with most other drugs because with most other drugs you can't produce that many doses all at once and transport it easily. I just wanted to point out that this unusual property exists with respect to LSD and it complicates matters.

corpselord420 12y ago

hahaha holy shit this is the most misinformed conception of what lsd is i've ever read, fucking incredible. 'weapon against unsuspecting populations' what the fuck? it's not a fucking nerve agent it makes you think weird for 12 hours

Scoundreller 12y ago

What, if anything, has already prevented any nation-state from conducting this synthesis? Isn't the cat out of the bag already?

pstuart 12y ago

Sorry, but I don't want anybody telling me what chemicals I can ingest. That should be my choice, thank you very much. Enforcement of purity, taxation on sale, restrictions on advertising and access to children sounds ok.