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These are really impressive from a mechanical engineering point of view, but in all these demos the powerplant is not on the frame. Instead, power is fed via wi

These are really impressive from a mechanical engineering point of view, but in all these demos the powerplant is not on the frame. Instead, power is fed via wire, making it stationary. Its a little disingenuous to claim it goes 28 mph when it doesn't even power itself. I'd love to see what real speeds they can get out of these things with a powerplant installed, especially over mixed terrain. Right now, this is like running a Tesla with a very long extension cable and claiming absurd 0-60 times. Instead, tell me how well it operates with a battery or an engine and all the extra weight and engineering accouterments that requires.

bnegreve 12y ago
> These are really impressive from a mechanical engineering point of view It's not just a mechanical engineering problem, the dynamic of the system is way too complex to be modeled with a simple formula. There's a lot of AI/machine learning involved in robotics. That's hard with or without external power supply.
gamerdonkey 12y ago
I'm going to reply to your comment, as it's currently on top, but several of the top comments have this same sentiment. I don't think it's fair to criticize this project harshly because the robot has external power and a supporting arm to keep it from damaging itself. The research and development was clearly about the design and actuation of the legs, and the researches have clearly done well on that front. To require them to provide onboard power for a system that they don't even know the requirements for is a little much, in my opinion.
- glesica 12y ago
  The research and development was clearly about the design and actuation of the legs... OK, but then is it really fair for them to publicize how fast it can run? I mean, I guess if the challenge is just to be able to move the legs fast enough, then maybe it is. But then why not publicize the number of steps it can take per unit of time instead of its speed? Speed is kind of misleading anyway unless you know how big it is.
  - furyofantares 12y ago
    Yes, it is fair to disclose exactly what you've achieved. They've made it run 28.5 mph on a treadmill with off board power and that is exactly what they disclosed. I guess you are reacting to the comparison to a human that has on board power. Or maybe it's just the fact that this comparison makes for a misleading headline. In any case this is probably the least interesting thing we could be discussing about their progress.
- joe_the_user 12y ago
  Clearly there are two parts to this equation. One aspect is how far research has gone - it's gone a long ways and achieved a lot, yes. The other aspect is how there is to go - there's a long to go before you get anything useful here. The thing you have to consider with these criticisms is that many technologies have gone a long, long way in their research but still hit a wall before they wound-up being practical. Walking robots seem like they're just very hard. Compared to wheeled vehicules, "walkers" touch on a very large number of "frames" (in the sense of Minsky etc). There's no reason for a walker if they just use to the safe, level zone of a road and if a walker moves in less structured areas, they need a lot of intelligence to move in a way that's useful for people (I've seen a video of BigDog moving through the woods with one soldier guiding via joy but the useful of thing that needs constant attention but can't be ridden would be strictly less than that of a horse and that's being optimistic it can guided effectively, etc).
- anigbrowl 12y ago
  I suppose once you have the basic mechanism working at a few different scales it's not such a big deal to hang the battery off the center of gravity. It's true that this project was about finding good 'leg' designs and balancing mechanisms; at the same time I'll be more impressed when they present a free-standing version that be taken to an athletic track. I think it won't be long (<5y) before someone does this with Usain Bolt or whoever else is the fastest human at the time. Shades of John Henry.
- rasz_pl 12y ago
  development was clearly about the design and actuation of the legs, and the researches have clearly ..failed by investing time in blind alley. This mechanism is unable to: -move legs out of sequence -support turning or balancing in Z axis its like one of those "running" robots that pretend they arent wheels https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/138364285/outrunner-the-worlds-most-advanced-running-robot https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/138364285/outrunner-the...
- dllthomas 12y ago
  FWIW, the snark in my comment wasn't directed at the research but at the reporting ("faster than any human!").
VikingCoder 12y ago
Eh. That's kind of like complaining that a human cheats by eating plants and animals. If you really wanted to show an example of something walking, it should have a nuclear power source, or have photo cells to absorb sunlight... But yes, I get your point. It'd be nice if they ALSO showed it carrying its own power source. I believe that would just lead us to questions of "how far can it go with a given power source, at a given rate?"
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
Retric 12y ago
Not so much you can have vary light weight power plants if you sacrifice distance traveled. Going X MPH over 100 feet is less interesting but would not change any of the hard parts. More importantly an ostrich can do 45 MPH which is far faster than this.
- eric_h 12y ago
  > More importantly an ostrich can do 45 MPH which is far faster than this. It's also much larger. I imagine once they scale this up, it'll go even faster. Can you imagine how frightening it would be to be chased by one of these things?
  - daveslash 12y ago
    I, for one, welcome our new robot-raptor overlords.
  - toomuchtodo 12y ago
    Imagine it car sized, and running on a serial-hybrid power plant (electrical for sprints, turbo diesel that spins up while it "rests" to recharge its battery for sprints). Terrifying.
    - eric_h 12y ago
      I'd be terrified even by a little one(consistent with the current size). If it had teeth, or that spinning balance beam had blades on it and they get maneuverability down...boy. Here's hoping DARPA doesn't fund the project to turn it into a weapon. (edit: just to be clear - i can't run anywhere near as fast as usain bolt, so it wouldn't have to be ostrich or car sized to catch me)
sliverstorm 12y ago
They aren't studying powerplants. The complete package is important for a finished product, but this isn't one.
Workaphobia 12y ago
I wonder how the treadmill affects its stability. It doesn't need to overcome its own momentum in order to accelerate; rather, slowing down requires acceleration.

bnegreve 12y ago

> These are really impressive from a mechanical engineering point of view It's not just a mechanical engineering problem, the dynamic of the system is way too complex to be modeled with a simple formula. There's a lot of AI/machine learning involved in robotics. That's hard with or without external power supply.

gamerdonkey 12y ago

I'm going to reply to your comment, as it's currently on top, but several of the top comments have this same sentiment. I don't think it's fair to criticize this project harshly because the robot has external power and a supporting arm to keep it from damaging itself. The research and development was clearly about the design and actuation of the legs, and the researches have clearly done well on that front. To require them to provide onboard power for a system that they don't even know the requirements for is a little much, in my opinion.

glesica 12y ago
The research and development was clearly about the design and actuation of the legs... OK, but then is it really fair for them to publicize how fast it can run? I mean, I guess if the challenge is just to be able to move the legs fast enough, then maybe it is. But then why not publicize the number of steps it can take per unit of time instead of its speed? Speed is kind of misleading anyway unless you know how big it is.
- furyofantares 12y ago
  Yes, it is fair to disclose exactly what you've achieved. They've made it run 28.5 mph on a treadmill with off board power and that is exactly what they disclosed. I guess you are reacting to the comparison to a human that has on board power. Or maybe it's just the fact that this comparison makes for a misleading headline. In any case this is probably the least interesting thing we could be discussing about their progress.
joe_the_user 12y ago
Clearly there are two parts to this equation. One aspect is how far research has gone - it's gone a long ways and achieved a lot, yes. The other aspect is how there is to go - there's a long to go before you get anything useful here. The thing you have to consider with these criticisms is that many technologies have gone a long, long way in their research but still hit a wall before they wound-up being practical. Walking robots seem like they're just very hard. Compared to wheeled vehicules, "walkers" touch on a very large number of "frames" (in the sense of Minsky etc). There's no reason for a walker if they just use to the safe, level zone of a road and if a walker moves in less structured areas, they need a lot of intelligence to move in a way that's useful for people (I've seen a video of BigDog moving through the woods with one soldier guiding via joy but the useful of thing that needs constant attention but can't be ridden would be strictly less than that of a horse and that's being optimistic it can guided effectively, etc).
anigbrowl 12y ago
I suppose once you have the basic mechanism working at a few different scales it's not such a big deal to hang the battery off the center of gravity. It's true that this project was about finding good 'leg' designs and balancing mechanisms; at the same time I'll be more impressed when they present a free-standing version that be taken to an athletic track. I think it won't be long (<5y) before someone does this with Usain Bolt or whoever else is the fastest human at the time. Shades of John Henry.
rasz_pl 12y ago
development was clearly about the design and actuation of the legs, and the researches have clearly ..failed by investing time in blind alley. This mechanism is unable to: -move legs out of sequence -support turning or balancing in Z axis its like one of those "running" robots that pretend they arent wheels https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/138364285/outrunner-the-worlds-most-advanced-running-robot https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/138364285/outrunner-the...
dllthomas 12y ago
FWIW, the snark in my comment wasn't directed at the research but at the reporting ("faster than any human!").

VikingCoder 12y ago

Eh. That's kind of like complaining that a human cheats by eating plants and animals. If you really wanted to show an example of something walking, it should have a nuclear power source, or have photo cells to absorb sunlight... But yes, I get your point. It'd be nice if they ALSO showed it carrying its own power source. I believe that would just lead us to questions of "how far can it go with a given power source, at a given rate?"

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

Retric 12y ago

Not so much you can have vary light weight power plants if you sacrifice distance traveled. Going X MPH over 100 feet is less interesting but would not change any of the hard parts. More importantly an ostrich can do 45 MPH which is far faster than this.

eric_h 12y ago
> More importantly an ostrich can do 45 MPH which is far faster than this. It's also much larger. I imagine once they scale this up, it'll go even faster. Can you imagine how frightening it would be to be chased by one of these things?
- daveslash 12y ago
  I, for one, welcome our new robot-raptor overlords.
- toomuchtodo 12y ago
  Imagine it car sized, and running on a serial-hybrid power plant (electrical for sprints, turbo diesel that spins up while it "rests" to recharge its battery for sprints). Terrifying.
  - eric_h 12y ago
    I'd be terrified even by a little one(consistent with the current size). If it had teeth, or that spinning balance beam had blades on it and they get maneuverability down...boy. Here's hoping DARPA doesn't fund the project to turn it into a weapon. (edit: just to be clear - i can't run anywhere near as fast as usain bolt, so it wouldn't have to be ostrich or car sized to catch me)

sliverstorm 12y ago

They aren't studying powerplants. The complete package is important for a finished product, but this isn't one.

Workaphobia 12y ago

I wonder how the treadmill affects its stability. It doesn't need to overcome its own momentum in order to accelerate; rather, slowing down requires acceleration.