14 ms·

Peter Sunde arrested in Sweden

301 points by henrikberggren 12y ago

kefs 12y ago
Relevant: If you haven't seen it, TPB: AFK is a fantastic documentary. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TPB_AFK https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TPB_AFK http://watch.tpbafk.tv/ http://watch.tpbafk.tv/
- zz1 12y ago
  Not enough to fully understand the situation, but great documentary. Highly recommended. Freely available, of course, so here's a magnet link, for those unwilling to open their PirateBrowser / to bypass TPB censorship. magnet:?xt=urn:btih:98a2faaf2393aa4494bdc4f01f50ec3d010de8cf&dn=TPB%20AFK%202013%20The%20Pirate%20Bay%20Away%20From%20Keyboard%20SimonKlose&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.publicbt.com%3A80%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.openbittorrent.com%3A80%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ffr33domtracker.h33t.com%3A3310%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.istole.it%3A80%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ffr33dom.h33t.com%3A3310%2Fannounce&tr=http%3A%2F%2Fgenesis.1337x.org%3A1337%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2F11.rarbg.com%3A80%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2F9.rarbg.com%3A2710%2Fannounce
  - dsirijus 12y ago
    As a side note - you've single-handedly destroyed the layout of this article's comment page with this magnet link.
    - zz1 12y ago
      Oh my, sorry, wasn't my intention. Removing it (better, indented)
  - bryanh 12y ago
    Would you mind putting your magnet link in a indented code block? The non-breaking string of chars is causing the page to go wonky.
    - zz1 12y ago
      Thanks, done!
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - thefreeman 12y ago
    Youtube version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTOKXCEwo_8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTOKXCEwo_8
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
ColinWright 12y ago
From Google translate ... Peter Sunde arrested in Skåne One of the brains behind the file sharing site The Pirate Bay has been arrested. Peter Sunde, 35, was arrested today in a raid in southern Sweden. - He has been on the run since 2012 , says Carolina Ekéus , press contact at NCIS . Rikskriminalen state that Peter Sunde has been wanted by Interpol and that he is now arrested. - He was arrested for him to serve a prison sentence of eight months. It's about the Pirate Bay case , says Caroline Ekéus . Expressen says that the raid took place at a farm in Skåne Tonganoxie . According to the newspaper shall Polish police and skånsk picket police have participated in the arrest . Sentenced to prison Peter Sunde were sentenced for aiding copyright infringement along with two other men in the Svea Court of Appeal in November 2010. Together sentenced Pirate Bay founders in addition to prison to pay damages of around 46 million. In its judgement, the Court of Appeals held that the men through file-sharing site The Pirate Bay " has facilitated illegal file sharing in a way that lead to penalties for those who run the service ." Peter Sunde has repeatedly applied for revision of the Supreme Court , most recently in February this year. He also refers to new cases from the European Court which deals with how to assess aiding and abetting . "Deeply unhappy ' Peter sundes defender Peter Althin says to Aftonbladet that he still finds it difficult to accept the verdict . - Has a final judgment , you have to enter and serve this . I kväljer them but I still think that the judgement is deeply unfortunate and inaccurate when it comes to him. There was nothing that showed that he had an active part in this as he was sentenced for, says Peter Althin. He says that an open prison now awaits Peter Sunde. - It does not get Kumla Security or something like that. It will be a little more open prison and that will happen pretty soon, says Peter Althin.
- anaphor 12y ago
  "Together sentenced Pirate Bay founders in addition to prison to pay damages of around 46 million." Yeah, that's never going to happen. The prosecutor in their case came up with some fantastical amount of money TPB is supposed to have made, but it's complete nonsense (see the documentary TPB: AFK for details).
  - ArcticCelt 12y ago
    Can he just fill for bankruptcy to clear the damages?
Numberwang 12y ago
Why would Polish police take part in a raid in Sweden?
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- mkempe 12y ago
  I was also wondering. The reason is that he left Sweden and apparently moved around quite a bit. He is reported to have been residing mostly in Berlin and his girl-friend lived in Gdansk, Poland. [edit: addition] The reports are ambiguous; it sounds like what they mean is: the Swedish police collaborated with the Polish police to track him down. Source (in Swedish): http://www.expressen.se/kvallsposten/pirate-bay-grundaren-gripen-av-piket-polis/ http://www.expressen.se/kvallsposten/pirate-bay-grundaren-gr...
  - joshz 12y ago
    That's most likely what happened. Search and Identification branch of the Crime Bureau (?) worked with Sweden in the past - these guys http://www.policja.pl/pol/kgp/biuro-sluzby-kryminaln/bsk-struktura-i-zadani/bsk-wydzial-poszukiwan/20883,dok.html http://www.policja.pl/pol/kgp/biuro-sluzby-kryminaln/bsk-str....
- mindslight 12y ago
  Because the copyright mafia pays well. edit: what? is there actually a question of whether these actions were born of corruption?
  - zz1 12y ago
    There is no doubt at all about the trial. But as for the arrest, no, no need to bribe anybody to simply execute the sentence.
klunger 12y ago
Ufda.
- ColinWright 12y ago
  Is this what you mean? Uff da (sometimes also spelled huffda, uff-da, uffda, uff-dah, oofda, ufda, ufdah, oofta, uf daa, or ufta) is an expression of Norwegian origin adopted by Scandinavian-Americans in the 19th century. ... The expression has lost its original connotation, and it is increasingly difficult to specify what it means now in America. Within Scandinavian-American culture, Uff da frequently translates into: *I am overwhelmed.*
  - klunger 12y ago
    Wow. I am not sure what all the downvotes are about. I am an American who is married to a Norwegian and have lived in Norway for a few years now. I never used the phrase when I lived in the US, but picked it up here. "Ufda" is a phrase commonly used here to mean something along the lines of "that's too bad" or "how unfortunate," with undertones of sympathy (like when you would say "ouch"). The spelling is kind of besides the point, because it is generally a spoken phrase. But if folks want to get really picky about authenticity, and apparently they do, "Ufda" is how my Norwegian friends spell it in text messages. Although, I am sure alternate spellings would be acceptable too. I meant it here to say simply that it was too bad this guy got arrested, with undertones of sympathy and a bit of Scandinavian solidarity. Norway and Sweden are only jokingly rivals, but are actually very friendly. Something obviously got lost in translation, probably due to the American-centric nature of this forum.
hocaoglv 12y ago
Gottfrid Svartholm is currently being held in solitary confinement in Denmark, Peter Sunde is arrested in Sweden. I thought these countries were like role models.
- _delirium 12y ago
  They're good on some things, bad on others. Generally the police are less militarized, and the criminal-justice system is somewhat less overgrown than in many other countries (lower % of the population in jail, much shorter typical sentences, etc.). However Scandinavia isn't really some kind of paradise, and the legal system is still zealous about pursuing quite some number of things I don't agree with.
- waynecochran 12y ago
  Not trying to be a troll, but aren't these people essentially supporting theivery on a massive scale? I've never understood why so much of the Internet community thinks downloading software and/or movies that is meant to be paid for is ok.
  - mindslight 12y ago
    When you examine the topic at a level beyond "it's theft", you may conclude that imaginary property is unsustainable in a world with private communications, decide privacy is the more worthy goal, and view those corrupting justice to preserve dying business models as the crooks.
    - mwfunk 12y ago
      I would certainly hope that he wouldn't conclude that. That level of certainty/hyperbole/condescension is either the Dunning-Kruger effect in action (AKA the "overconfident CS undergrad effect" on tech forums) or the mark of someone who would much rather embrace an exciting falsehood than spend a lifetime seeking messy and often unattainable truths (AKA why we can't have nice things).
      - 12y ago
charleshaanel 12y ago
Skåne! He should have headed to Södertälje they never would have found him there ha. In all seriousness, this is heck of a way for old Sverige to stay in the press don't you think? (and this is coming from a yank who loves the place like a second home)
zz1 12y ago
Too bad he didn't made to the EU Parliament. That makes two out of the three in jail, which is very saddening. I wonder what will happen to Frederik: I doubt they will just let him be. They are beating three to scare millions.
- mrkickling 12y ago
  He's in Laos, and according to TPB AFK he will stay there wanking for 5 years.
  - zz1 12y ago
    Yes, I know (one on and one off). They can catch him anyway, like they did with Gottfried.
  - zz1 12y ago
    Yes, I know (one on and one off). They can catch him anyway, like they did with Gottfried.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
jacquesm 12y ago
Very clever to arrest him after the elections. Before the elections this would have been a much bigger issue and possibly would have gained votes for the Swedish Pirate Party resulting in more seats in the European Parliament for them.
- kryptiskt 12y ago
  Why would the police give two shits about the EU election? I don't know what corrupt hellhole you are from, but Sweden doesn't work like that. Not that it would have been an issue. The Pirate Bay trial is old news and it's hardly a major scandal that a convicted man has to serve his time. As it is, the Pirate Party was wiped out and were far from getting a seat.
  - baddox 12y ago
    > Why would the police give two shits about the EU election? Because police are part of the government, and the government of Sweden has obvious reasons to care about EU elections.
    - elinchrome 12y ago
      Ideally police should just enforce the laws on the books and have no government influence of their actions, aside from the changing of laws.
      - Excavator 12y ago
        No worries! It's not the government that is the major influencer; for example, in 2006, you had Henrik Pontén¹ of the Svenska Antipiratbyrån physically leading the raid against The Pirate Bay host and Jim Keyzer², the lead investigator for the case, was employed by Warner Brothers during the investigation. 1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henrik_Pont%C3%A9n http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henrik_Pont%C3%A9n 2: https://torrentfreak.com/warner-confesses-pirate-bay-cop-compromised-080605/ https://torrentfreak.com/warner-confesses-pirate-bay-cop-com...
  - 12y ago
elinchrome 12y ago
So what's the URL now? Is it thepiratebay.org, or thepiratebay.se? It jumped around so much that it's hard to keep track.
- M2Ys4U 12y ago
  thepiratebay.se
- esbonsa 12y ago
  Google usually finds the right one (https://www.google.com/search?q=piratebay https://www.google.com/search?q=piratebay)... but of course that could change.
callesgg 12y ago
Aftonbladet is one of the worst tabloids in Sweden a cant say i trust any details in their articles.
- INTPenis 12y ago
  Like for example the simple fact that Peter never founded TPB, he merely spoke for it once it became huge.
contingencies 12y ago
OK so I never knew Peter, but I knew Gottfried. And I live next to Laos and Cambodia. Full disclosure: I am presently in Luxembourg, solidifying legal situation for cryptographic currencies, and we are kicking ass. Just this morning I was reading Peter's blog, including the Swedish parts, and although I don't have the background on the (dis)agreements between the various TPB founders, I know they are all legit people. The fact that Peter got smacked-down is clearly a result of his political positioning, and nothing to do with anything else. The reality we are living in is this: keep quiet, shut up , and you are OK. Start talking like I am now, and they target you. Well, fuck you US authorities. We are fucking free, and we will keep talking, and we will fucking send you to the graveyard of anachronisms that you belong in.
fdsary 12y ago
I use google's 'filetype:epub' to download ebooks, whether or no they have "copyright" or not. When will Larry & Sergey go to prison for me doing that?
tomaskazemekas 12y ago
It looks like he was the Pirate Party candidate for European parliament in recent elections, but was not successful. It also means, that his immunity from prosecution as a candidate has just finished and the arrest was possible. Quote from the article: "In Finland, where Pirate Bay founder Peter Sunde sought a seat, counting the Party secured just 0.7 per cent of the vote." http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/05/26/european_voters_make_pirate_party_walk_the_plank/ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/05/26/european_voters_make...
kseistrup 12y ago
I wonder what impact this will have on the development of https://heml.is/ https://heml.is/ …
- zz1 12y ago
  Me too (they are in closed beta, at the moment, as far as I know). But I have to admit that I don't appreciate hemlis: a solution like TextSecure, i.e. allowing federation, looks better to me.

301 points by henrikberggren 12y ago

kefs 12y ago

Relevant: If you haven't seen it, TPB: AFK is a fantastic documentary. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TPB_AFK https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TPB_AFK http://watch.tpbafk.tv/ http://watch.tpbafk.tv/

zz1 12y ago
Not enough to fully understand the situation, but great documentary. Highly recommended. Freely available, of course, so here's a magnet link, for those unwilling to open their PirateBrowser / to bypass TPB censorship. magnet:?xt=urn:btih:98a2faaf2393aa4494bdc4f01f50ec3d010de8cf&dn=TPB%20AFK%202013%20The%20Pirate%20Bay%20Away%20From%20Keyboard%20SimonKlose&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.publicbt.com%3A80%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.openbittorrent.com%3A80%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ffr33domtracker.h33t.com%3A3310%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.istole.it%3A80%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ffr33dom.h33t.com%3A3310%2Fannounce&tr=http%3A%2F%2Fgenesis.1337x.org%3A1337%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2F11.rarbg.com%3A80%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2F9.rarbg.com%3A2710%2Fannounce
- dsirijus 12y ago
  As a side note - you've single-handedly destroyed the layout of this article's comment page with this magnet link.
  - zz1 12y ago
    Oh my, sorry, wasn't my intention. Removing it (better, indented)
- bryanh 12y ago
  Would you mind putting your magnet link in a indented code block? The non-breaking string of chars is causing the page to go wonky.
  - zz1 12y ago
    Thanks, done!
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- thefreeman 12y ago
  Youtube version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTOKXCEwo_8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTOKXCEwo_8
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

ColinWright 12y ago

From Google translate ... Peter Sunde arrested in Skåne One of the brains behind the file sharing site The Pirate Bay has been arrested. Peter Sunde, 35, was arrested today in a raid in southern Sweden. - He has been on the run since 2012 , says Carolina Ekéus , press contact at NCIS . Rikskriminalen state that Peter Sunde has been wanted by Interpol and that he is now arrested. - He was arrested for him to serve a prison sentence of eight months. It's about the Pirate Bay case , says Caroline Ekéus . Expressen says that the raid took place at a farm in Skåne Tonganoxie . According to the newspaper shall Polish police and skånsk picket police have participated in the arrest . Sentenced to prison Peter Sunde were sentenced for aiding copyright infringement along with two other men in the Svea Court of Appeal in November 2010. Together sentenced Pirate Bay founders in addition to prison to pay damages of around 46 million. In its judgement, the Court of Appeals held that the men through file-sharing site The Pirate Bay " has facilitated illegal file sharing in a way that lead to penalties for those who run the service ." Peter Sunde has repeatedly applied for revision of the Supreme Court , most recently in February this year. He also refers to new cases from the European Court which deals with how to assess aiding and abetting . "Deeply unhappy ' Peter sundes defender Peter Althin says to Aftonbladet that he still finds it difficult to accept the verdict . - Has a final judgment , you have to enter and serve this . I kväljer them but I still think that the judgement is deeply unfortunate and inaccurate when it comes to him. There was nothing that showed that he had an active part in this as he was sentenced for, says Peter Althin. He says that an open prison now awaits Peter Sunde. - It does not get Kumla Security or something like that. It will be a little more open prison and that will happen pretty soon, says Peter Althin.

anaphor 12y ago
"Together sentenced Pirate Bay founders in addition to prison to pay damages of around 46 million." Yeah, that's never going to happen. The prosecutor in their case came up with some fantastical amount of money TPB is supposed to have made, but it's complete nonsense (see the documentary TPB: AFK for details).
- ArcticCelt 12y ago
  Can he just fill for bankruptcy to clear the damages?

Numberwang 12y ago

Why would Polish police take part in a raid in Sweden?

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
mkempe 12y ago
I was also wondering. The reason is that he left Sweden and apparently moved around quite a bit. He is reported to have been residing mostly in Berlin and his girl-friend lived in Gdansk, Poland. [edit: addition] The reports are ambiguous; it sounds like what they mean is: the Swedish police collaborated with the Polish police to track him down. Source (in Swedish): http://www.expressen.se/kvallsposten/pirate-bay-grundaren-gripen-av-piket-polis/ http://www.expressen.se/kvallsposten/pirate-bay-grundaren-gr...
- joshz 12y ago
  That's most likely what happened. Search and Identification branch of the Crime Bureau (?) worked with Sweden in the past - these guys http://www.policja.pl/pol/kgp/biuro-sluzby-kryminaln/bsk-struktura-i-zadani/bsk-wydzial-poszukiwan/20883,dok.html http://www.policja.pl/pol/kgp/biuro-sluzby-kryminaln/bsk-str....
mindslight 12y ago
Because the copyright mafia pays well. edit: what? is there actually a question of whether these actions were born of corruption?
- zz1 12y ago
  There is no doubt at all about the trial. But as for the arrest, no, no need to bribe anybody to simply execute the sentence.

klunger 12y ago

Ufda.

ColinWright 12y ago
Is this what you mean? Uff da (sometimes also spelled huffda, uff-da, uffda, uff-dah, oofda, ufda, ufdah, oofta, uf daa, or ufta) is an expression of Norwegian origin adopted by Scandinavian-Americans in the 19th century. ... The expression has lost its original connotation, and it is increasingly difficult to specify what it means now in America. Within Scandinavian-American culture, Uff da frequently translates into: *I am overwhelmed.*
- klunger 12y ago
  Wow. I am not sure what all the downvotes are about. I am an American who is married to a Norwegian and have lived in Norway for a few years now. I never used the phrase when I lived in the US, but picked it up here. "Ufda" is a phrase commonly used here to mean something along the lines of "that's too bad" or "how unfortunate," with undertones of sympathy (like when you would say "ouch"). The spelling is kind of besides the point, because it is generally a spoken phrase. But if folks want to get really picky about authenticity, and apparently they do, "Ufda" is how my Norwegian friends spell it in text messages. Although, I am sure alternate spellings would be acceptable too. I meant it here to say simply that it was too bad this guy got arrested, with undertones of sympathy and a bit of Scandinavian solidarity. Norway and Sweden are only jokingly rivals, but are actually very friendly. Something obviously got lost in translation, probably due to the American-centric nature of this forum.

hocaoglv 12y ago

Gottfrid Svartholm is currently being held in solitary confinement in Denmark, Peter Sunde is arrested in Sweden. I thought these countries were like role models.

_delirium 12y ago
They're good on some things, bad on others. Generally the police are less militarized, and the criminal-justice system is somewhat less overgrown than in many other countries (lower % of the population in jail, much shorter typical sentences, etc.). However Scandinavia isn't really some kind of paradise, and the legal system is still zealous about pursuing quite some number of things I don't agree with.
waynecochran 12y ago
Not trying to be a troll, but aren't these people essentially supporting theivery on a massive scale? I've never understood why so much of the Internet community thinks downloading software and/or movies that is meant to be paid for is ok.
- mindslight 12y ago
  When you examine the topic at a level beyond "it's theft", you may conclude that imaginary property is unsustainable in a world with private communications, decide privacy is the more worthy goal, and view those corrupting justice to preserve dying business models as the crooks.
  - mwfunk 12y ago
    I would certainly hope that he wouldn't conclude that. That level of certainty/hyperbole/condescension is either the Dunning-Kruger effect in action (AKA the "overconfident CS undergrad effect" on tech forums) or the mark of someone who would much rather embrace an exciting falsehood than spend a lifetime seeking messy and often unattainable truths (AKA why we can't have nice things).
    - 12y ago

charleshaanel 12y ago

Skåne! He should have headed to Södertälje they never would have found him there ha. In all seriousness, this is heck of a way for old Sverige to stay in the press don't you think? (and this is coming from a yank who loves the place like a second home)

zz1 12y ago

Too bad he didn't made to the EU Parliament. That makes two out of the three in jail, which is very saddening. I wonder what will happen to Frederik: I doubt they will just let him be. They are beating three to scare millions.

mrkickling 12y ago
He's in Laos, and according to TPB AFK he will stay there wanking for 5 years.
- zz1 12y ago
  Yes, I know (one on and one off). They can catch him anyway, like they did with Gottfried.
- zz1 12y ago
  Yes, I know (one on and one off). They can catch him anyway, like they did with Gottfried.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]

jacquesm 12y ago

Very clever to arrest him after the elections. Before the elections this would have been a much bigger issue and possibly would have gained votes for the Swedish Pirate Party resulting in more seats in the European Parliament for them.

kryptiskt 12y ago
Why would the police give two shits about the EU election? I don't know what corrupt hellhole you are from, but Sweden doesn't work like that. Not that it would have been an issue. The Pirate Bay trial is old news and it's hardly a major scandal that a convicted man has to serve his time. As it is, the Pirate Party was wiped out and were far from getting a seat.
- baddox 12y ago
  > Why would the police give two shits about the EU election? Because police are part of the government, and the government of Sweden has obvious reasons to care about EU elections.
  - elinchrome 12y ago
    Ideally police should just enforce the laws on the books and have no government influence of their actions, aside from the changing of laws.
    - Excavator 12y ago
      No worries! It's not the government that is the major influencer; for example, in 2006, you had Henrik Pontén¹ of the Svenska Antipiratbyrån physically leading the raid against The Pirate Bay host and Jim Keyzer², the lead investigator for the case, was employed by Warner Brothers during the investigation. 1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henrik_Pont%C3%A9n http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henrik_Pont%C3%A9n 2: https://torrentfreak.com/warner-confesses-pirate-bay-cop-compromised-080605/ https://torrentfreak.com/warner-confesses-pirate-bay-cop-com...
- 12y ago

elinchrome 12y ago

So what's the URL now? Is it thepiratebay.org, or thepiratebay.se? It jumped around so much that it's hard to keep track.

M2Ys4U 12y ago
thepiratebay.se
esbonsa 12y ago
Google usually finds the right one (https://www.google.com/search?q=piratebay https://www.google.com/search?q=piratebay)... but of course that could change.

callesgg 12y ago

Aftonbladet is one of the worst tabloids in Sweden a cant say i trust any details in their articles.

INTPenis 12y ago
Like for example the simple fact that Peter never founded TPB, he merely spoke for it once it became huge.

contingencies 12y ago

OK so I never knew Peter, but I knew Gottfried. And I live next to Laos and Cambodia. Full disclosure: I am presently in Luxembourg, solidifying legal situation for cryptographic currencies, and we are kicking ass. Just this morning I was reading Peter's blog, including the Swedish parts, and although I don't have the background on the (dis)agreements between the various TPB founders, I know they are all legit people. The fact that Peter got smacked-down is clearly a result of his political positioning, and nothing to do with anything else. The reality we are living in is this: keep quiet, shut up , and you are OK. Start talking like I am now, and they target you. Well, fuck you US authorities. We are fucking free, and we will keep talking, and we will fucking send you to the graveyard of anachronisms that you belong in.

fdsary 12y ago

I use google's 'filetype:epub' to download ebooks, whether or no they have "copyright" or not. When will Larry & Sergey go to prison for me doing that?

tomaskazemekas 12y ago

It looks like he was the Pirate Party candidate for European parliament in recent elections, but was not successful. It also means, that his immunity from prosecution as a candidate has just finished and the arrest was possible. Quote from the article: "In Finland, where Pirate Bay founder Peter Sunde sought a seat, counting the Party secured just 0.7 per cent of the vote." http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/05/26/european_voters_make_pirate_party_walk_the_plank/ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/05/26/european_voters_make...

kseistrup 12y ago

I wonder what impact this will have on the development of https://heml.is/ https://heml.is/ …

zz1 12y ago
Me too (they are in closed beta, at the moment, as far as I know). But I have to admit that I don't appreciate hemlis: a solution like TextSecure, i.e. allowing federation, looks better to me.