4 ms·

It's hard to "make people think" in the different unit system. I'm in the UK and people talk about sizes in feet and miles all the time even though the society

by zimbatm 12y ago

It's hard to "make people think" in the different unit system. I'm in the UK and people talk about sizes in feet and miles all the time even though the society is supposed to have switched to the metric system. There are places like on product labels where both units should be mandatory. Hopefully in a few generations people will gradually switch over.

arethuza 12y ago
I think most people in the UK use a pretty mixed up set of measures. I think of beer in pints, wine in ml, driving distance in miles, walking distance in km, height in feet and inches, but weight in kg. Lengths are in m/cm/mm as are weights and volumes for cooking. Mountains in Scotland in feet and mountains in the Alps in metres... Oddly, my teenage son uses m/cm for height and stones/pounds for weight...
- rlpb 12y ago
  > I think most people in the UK use a pretty mixed up set of measures. I agree. But for science and engineering (where metric is really useful), I believe that everything is metric here now. The measures for which we still use Imperial units are ones that generally are just directly and subjectively compared by humans, rather than any real engineering work. Another way of making my claim is that nobody really has to input Imperial measures into a calculator any more, or make any conversions [involving non-metric units] for engineering purposes. I suppose there are some exceptions (eg. BMI), but these calculations are generally isolated and have no wider unit-incompatibility impact.
SideburnsOfDoom 12y ago
> It's hard to "make people think" in the different unit system It is, but it can be done in just one generation. The generation that is raised metric finds it even harder to think in imperial measurements, since the imperial measuring system is significantly more complex. Source: I grew up in a fully metric country. I just looked it up, apparently the conversion to metric happened around the time that I was born. I had no idea, I thought that it was a decade or two before that. i.e. if the USA had tried a bit harder in 1975, they would be done now. Also, the UK is not "fully metric". If it was, there would not be road signs showing numbers in miles and miles per hour. You can't stop people from buying beer by the 568ml, but if the UK was serious about metric, official communications and education would be all in metric.
- jmpe 12y ago
  Something that is often overlooked: in the EU a dozen countries switched to a different currency overnight. Everything. Accounting and banking, shops big and small, the entire value system was redone. But after more than a decade I still find myself converting back to the old currency in my head from time to time. Only to remind myself that inflation has made that exercise pointless. The older generation has trouble with it, though.
- talideon 12y ago
  We here in Ireland were the same in that regard. A few years ago, we just decided to abandon the use of dual units and switch to using km everywhere. Within a short amount of time, people had mostly switched over to using km for any non-trivial distances. It can be done; it just takes the determination to just do it.
raverbashing 12y ago
This is similar in Canada Yes, it's difficult to make people think about it. At the same time, sometimes the units "don't matter" (like speed limits, 50 is 50 in the speedometer, just make sure you're not looking at the mph scale) I want to slap somebody when I hear about "pounds" or "feet/sq ft", or even worse, Fahrenheit (since this is a non-linear transform) At least everything in the supermarket is marked per pound and kilo
- bhousel 12y ago
  > Fahrenheit (since this is a non-linear transform) huh?
  - icegreentea 12y ago
    There's a constant offset between F and C, so it's not linear in the actual engineering/math (or whatever) sense.
    - drdeca 12y ago
      It's not proportional, but the equation for going from one to another is that of a line. I would think this would be called linear, but that mean something more specific?
      - icegreentea 12y ago
        In engineering, linearity refers to having two properties: a) f(x+y) = f(x) + f(y) where x, y, are two values, and f is a linear transform/function b) af(x) = f(ax) where a is constant In this case, the transform is the conversion between C and F. Since there is +/32 in there depending on direction, neither of these properties hold. For example, yards to meters is a linear transform. 3 yards converted to meters + 2 yards converted to meters = 5 yards converted to meters. This is not true of temperature. Adding 32F to 32F gives 64F, which is not the same as adding 0C to 0C.
        12y ago
adamtj 12y ago
I disagree. When I'm working with computers, I find 24-hour time more convenient. It was a little difficult for the first few months, but now I really am ready to think only in 24-hour time. Unfortunately, my brain won't fully switch over because everything else in my life is 12-hour time. Having both means I can't help but stick to the old way. When my computer clock says 17, I know people will start leaving the office. But, when it says 19, I don't think of supper. Supper is when my kitchen clock says 7. Having a short adjustment period would be good, but at some point you just have to commit. Generations is too long in my opinion.
- anotherevan 12y ago
  Are people thinking that a 24 hour time is metric? I saw a couple of comments that make me think this. In Australia we use 12 hour am/pm almost all the time, even on official documents. We've been metric since the early 70's. I still have to pause and convert when I see a time greater than 12 (or, sadly, less than 1.) It seems much more a cultural thing, that one. Now if we could only stop anybody using m/d/y date formats...
harperlee 12y ago
In the European Union we changed currency, which is arguably a riskier change of measure, and much more abrupt a change. We did fine! Even my grandma got accustomed quickly. Of course one could argue that is precisely because of the importance of a currency that we adapted so quickly...
ds9 12y ago
As a USian I can testify that there's a lot of irrational opposition here. Disclaimer: I don't have scientific sources on this, just subjective impressions from a lot of little interactions and clues. The resistance seems to be largely: (a) older people who doubt their own ability to adjust (b) right-wingers who are convinced it's a socialist conspiracy or somesuch (these are people who think international cooperation is taking sovereignty from the US, or something like that - they're a bit incoherent) and (c) politicians perceive it as unpopular and risky to advocate (presumably because of a and b) or just not a vote-getter. I've occasionally tried to promote SI by using units in casual contexts, but it's perceived as pretentious or obnoxious. The situation is better online as I participate only in fora like this where US obtuseness is not necessarily expected. It is hard to even find products like thermometers and measuring cups (for cooking) with all-SI.
- marcosdumay 12y ago
  We don't use measuring products that are all SI outside of the US either. You are big enough that it's worth making a dual use product.

by zimbatm 12y ago

arethuza 12y ago

I think most people in the UK use a pretty mixed up set of measures. I think of beer in pints, wine in ml, driving distance in miles, walking distance in km, height in feet and inches, but weight in kg. Lengths are in m/cm/mm as are weights and volumes for cooking. Mountains in Scotland in feet and mountains in the Alps in metres... Oddly, my teenage son uses m/cm for height and stones/pounds for weight...

rlpb 12y ago
> I think most people in the UK use a pretty mixed up set of measures. I agree. But for science and engineering (where metric is really useful), I believe that everything is metric here now. The measures for which we still use Imperial units are ones that generally are just directly and subjectively compared by humans, rather than any real engineering work. Another way of making my claim is that nobody really has to input Imperial measures into a calculator any more, or make any conversions [involving non-metric units] for engineering purposes. I suppose there are some exceptions (eg. BMI), but these calculations are generally isolated and have no wider unit-incompatibility impact.

SideburnsOfDoom 12y ago

> It's hard to "make people think" in the different unit system It is, but it can be done in just one generation. The generation that is raised metric finds it even harder to think in imperial measurements, since the imperial measuring system is significantly more complex. Source: I grew up in a fully metric country. I just looked it up, apparently the conversion to metric happened around the time that I was born. I had no idea, I thought that it was a decade or two before that. i.e. if the USA had tried a bit harder in 1975, they would be done now. Also, the UK is not "fully metric". If it was, there would not be road signs showing numbers in miles and miles per hour. You can't stop people from buying beer by the 568ml, but if the UK was serious about metric, official communications and education would be all in metric.

jmpe 12y ago
Something that is often overlooked: in the EU a dozen countries switched to a different currency overnight. Everything. Accounting and banking, shops big and small, the entire value system was redone. But after more than a decade I still find myself converting back to the old currency in my head from time to time. Only to remind myself that inflation has made that exercise pointless. The older generation has trouble with it, though.
talideon 12y ago
We here in Ireland were the same in that regard. A few years ago, we just decided to abandon the use of dual units and switch to using km everywhere. Within a short amount of time, people had mostly switched over to using km for any non-trivial distances. It can be done; it just takes the determination to just do it.

raverbashing 12y ago

This is similar in Canada Yes, it's difficult to make people think about it. At the same time, sometimes the units "don't matter" (like speed limits, 50 is 50 in the speedometer, just make sure you're not looking at the mph scale) I want to slap somebody when I hear about "pounds" or "feet/sq ft", or even worse, Fahrenheit (since this is a non-linear transform) At least everything in the supermarket is marked per pound and kilo

bhousel 12y ago
> Fahrenheit (since this is a non-linear transform) huh?
- icegreentea 12y ago
  There's a constant offset between F and C, so it's not linear in the actual engineering/math (or whatever) sense.
  - drdeca 12y ago
    It's not proportional, but the equation for going from one to another is that of a line. I would think this would be called linear, but that mean something more specific?
    - icegreentea 12y ago
      In engineering, linearity refers to having two properties: a) f(x+y) = f(x) + f(y) where x, y, are two values, and f is a linear transform/function b) af(x) = f(ax) where a is constant In this case, the transform is the conversion between C and F. Since there is +/32 in there depending on direction, neither of these properties hold. For example, yards to meters is a linear transform. 3 yards converted to meters + 2 yards converted to meters = 5 yards converted to meters. This is not true of temperature. Adding 32F to 32F gives 64F, which is not the same as adding 0C to 0C.
      - 12y ago

adamtj 12y ago

I disagree. When I'm working with computers, I find 24-hour time more convenient. It was a little difficult for the first few months, but now I really am ready to think only in 24-hour time. Unfortunately, my brain won't fully switch over because everything else in my life is 12-hour time. Having both means I can't help but stick to the old way. When my computer clock says 17, I know people will start leaving the office. But, when it says 19, I don't think of supper. Supper is when my kitchen clock says 7. Having a short adjustment period would be good, but at some point you just have to commit. Generations is too long in my opinion.

anotherevan 12y ago
Are people thinking that a 24 hour time is metric? I saw a couple of comments that make me think this. In Australia we use 12 hour am/pm almost all the time, even on official documents. We've been metric since the early 70's. I still have to pause and convert when I see a time greater than 12 (or, sadly, less than 1.) It seems much more a cultural thing, that one. Now if we could only stop anybody using m/d/y date formats...

harperlee 12y ago

In the European Union we changed currency, which is arguably a riskier change of measure, and much more abrupt a change. We did fine! Even my grandma got accustomed quickly. Of course one could argue that is precisely because of the importance of a currency that we adapted so quickly...

ds9 12y ago

As a USian I can testify that there's a lot of irrational opposition here. Disclaimer: I don't have scientific sources on this, just subjective impressions from a lot of little interactions and clues. The resistance seems to be largely: (a) older people who doubt their own ability to adjust (b) right-wingers who are convinced it's a socialist conspiracy or somesuch (these are people who think international cooperation is taking sovereignty from the US, or something like that - they're a bit incoherent) and (c) politicians perceive it as unpopular and risky to advocate (presumably because of a and b) or just not a vote-getter. I've occasionally tried to promote SI by using units in casual contexts, but it's perceived as pretentious or obnoxious. The situation is better online as I participate only in fora like this where US obtuseness is not necessarily expected. It is hard to even find products like thermometers and measuring cups (for cooking) with all-SI.

marcosdumay 12y ago
We don't use measuring products that are all SI outside of the US either. You are big enough that it's worth making a dual use product.