7 ms·

Laverna: Self-hosted Evernote alternative

180 points by yid 12y ago

kcovia 12y ago
Evernote's slow push toward the social ecosystem has been worrying me. It's fundamentally a mind-dump / journal to me, and I have absolutely zero desire to share notes straight from the program itself. The fact that I could send out personal journal entries to Facebook worries me, even though it's not likely...I just don't like the functionality being there to begin with. I'll definitely be looking into this.
- orthecreedence 12y ago
  Check out https://turtl.it https://turtl.it too! (Disclosure, I built it). It's a private, cloud-based Evernote alternative. It doesn't have nearly all the features Evernote does yet, but it's getting there. Turtl puts privacy before all else (uses client-side crypto to protect everything).
  - emsy 12y ago
    Looks great, I'll definitely have a look at it!
jimktrains2 12y ago
"None of us can get access to your personal data because we are using IndexedDB and localStorage. In fact all your information will be stored only on client side." Does this mean it's useless for multiple devices or sharing between people? I find these to be the most useful features of evernote. I make notes on my phone to look at later on my computer or share shopping lists with my wife.
- sbarre 12y ago
  I suspect this is where cloud integration comes in, you probably link it to your Dropbox where it will upload your encrypted data, so you can use it from more than one machine? I'm not actually sure though because I don't actually see any of the synchronization features anywhere in the settings screens.
  - hamburglar 12y ago
    Yes, the main settings screen has a "Cloud Storage" popup that doesn't exactly jump out at you (I looked at that screen several times before figuring out that's where the RemoteStorage option is). You choose either Dropbox or RemoteStorage. I just tried setting up a remoteStorage server and editing files from two different browsers on the same account, and I have to say, it's pretty buggy. Lots of waiting for the little "syncing" spinner to stop, reloading pages, wondering how I know whether my files have been sent to the server, etc. I did eventually get notes I wrote on one browser to show up in the other, but only after quite a bit of determined reloading and clicking sync repeatedly on both. This really does look like an ideal application to me (and if nothing else, it introduced me to RemoteStorage, which I have a perfect use for), but I don't think it's ready to trust anything important to yet.
mynegation 12y ago
I'll give it a try. I wish there would be more open-source applications supporting encryption that I could put on my own web server, preferably with well-defined APIs so that mobile app developers could create apps on top of them. I would love to have my own RSS reader, my own pinboard.in, my own Dropbox. Owncloud and Synology apps (not open-source but close in spirit) are the examples of things I am looking for.
emsy 12y ago
I tried it myself and liked it pretty well from its look and feel but there are some caveats: -No cache manifest, so internet connection is mandatory -It defaults to local storage for your notes, so the notes are basically saved in your browser -Syncing works via Dropbox (not an option for me) or SyncStorage, which I never heard of before and which requires yet another server if you want everything self-hosted -You have to download all the dependencies and build the app locally for what could be a simple tarball -As far as I can see there is no API to build upon if you want automated notes or a custom app (though you may be able to do this via SyncStorage) Another important fact is that it's not nearly as feature rich as Evernote, so the headline is actually misleading. I'll stick with my current BTSync/Markdown files workflow and check back in a few months.
- lazerwalker 12y ago
  I'm curious to hear why Dropbox isn't an option for you, given that this supports client-side encryption. Ideological aversion to Condoleezza? Enterprise bureaucracy? Other?
  - al2o3cr 12y ago
    Syncing via Dropbox sorta shoots the whole "no 3rd-party server dependencies" idea...
    - Inufu 12y ago
      Not necessarily - the main reason why I don't want to store my notes with Evernote is because I want to be able to use them in 50 years, not because I'm opposed to sync them with a 3rd party server.
      - yid 12y ago
        I have the same requirement for my notes. Looks like Laverna stores notes on Dropbox in JSON, which is fantastic.
      - dunham 12y ago
mcmillhj 12y ago
I realize this is a beta release, but a grammar check should probably have been done on the homepage. This could be a strong deterrent for some people.
- greenyoda 12y ago
  Also, the sample screen shot full of "lorem ipsum" doesn't seem very convincing. They might want to display some sample items that would look like something a real person would be doing at work.
darka 12y ago
Can this be used on Android phones in any way?
- Touche 12y ago
  Yes, it's responsive.
Inufu 12y ago
I'm not that excited by Lavema, but it lead me tagspaces (http://www.tagspaces.org/ http://www.tagspaces.org/), which seems much more awesome. It just saves to your local filesystem, so you can sync with drive or dropbox if you want, layer some encryption in between with fuse. There's a mobile client, but you'll have to keep the note directory synced manually with a 3rd-party app.
- lugg 12y ago
  Does it not work for btsync? Just curious why you would mention Dropbox and drive when they have the same privacy concerns. Or are you wanting to move away from ever note for another reason? Edit: tagspaces page says it works with bts.
  - Inufu 12y ago
    I work for Google, so not really concerned about the privacy of Drive. The main reason why I don't want to use Evernote is because I want to store my notes in plain text files, so I can keep using them even in say 50 years.
    - tim_sw 12y ago
      You might like org-mode especially if you're an emacs user.
    - FireBeyond 12y ago
      You realize that Evernote stores notes in XML? Not perfect, but pretty human readable.
    - unhammer 12y ago
      If I worked for Google I'd probably be _more_ concerned since it's now colleagues who can read my stuff, not just anonymous-sysadmin-I-will-never-meet =P
- PhasmaFelis 12y ago
  When I've wanted to use Dropbox (or Drive, etc) to sync app data that needs to be in a certain place (game savefiles, mostly), I've had good luck just moving the data directory to my Dropbox and then symlinking from the original location. That should be doable on Android with any old terminal program, though you may need to root the device just to install basic command line tools like "ln".
binaryanomaly 12y ago
I like it. Still a bit unpolished but I'm already since longtime looking for a FOSS Evernote alternative. This one has potential.
atmosx 12y ago
Hm, the markdown support & the self-hosted option convinced me :-) great job guys!
benrapscallion 12y ago
Evernote's biggest distinguishing feature is OCR, which seems to be missing here.
- kenrick95 12y ago
  Wait, Microsoft's OneNote also have OCR.
amckinlay 12y ago
This is especially relevant now that Springpad is shutting down (https://springpad.com/blog/2014/05/springpad-says-goodbye/ https://springpad.com/blog/2014/05/springpad-says-goodbye/).
Cub3 12y ago
I've been using tiddlywiki (http://tiddlywiki.com/ http://tiddlywiki.com/) for years, same concept except stores in a single file and as a plus uses the "Stanford JavaScript Crypto Library" for password protection, I sync this between machines (incl. mobile there are a few clients) with btsync
lsiebert 12y ago
I currently use SpringPad (which can tell when I clip an amazon page I wanted the book, not the amazon page)... which is going away. I'd love to be able to transition to something other than Evernote.
- donniezazen 12y ago
  Being a Linux user and Evernote's strong desire to not even support Evernote for Chrome on Linux has been one of the main points against use Evernote. I have wanted a true Evernote competitor for so long. SpringPad going down was a bad news. I am glad there are open source solutions that can be used at least for basic functionalities.
nppc 12y ago
This looks more like Notational Velocity and definitely not anything like Evernote
nobotty 12y ago
Why do these things never have syntax highlighting? It's like nobody cares about collaboration among hackers
dscrd 12y ago
Somebody oughta make an OrgMode (or a reasonable simplification of it) for the cloud.
- BugBrother 12y ago
  Something like that was my hobby project to learn JavaScript well. (Using the Org::Parser from CPAN.) Far from complete. I got stuck on that I am unable to create a good UX. :-) You want to give all users a grounding in Emacs and you want to make it usable for others, at the same time. Now the plan is to get a MVP off the ground and make the View system simple enough so designers can rewrite it and rework the look and command structure. (This is not just to make a commercial web app based on Emacs, with all income assigned to FSF for fun. Promise. :-) The plan really is GPL.)
unhammer 12y ago
Me and my gf went through a range of note-taking apps to find one that she could use for organising her business TODO's and notes. She did try Evernote, but the feeling was always "what do I do with all this". She ended up using the much more barebones http://zim-wiki.org/ http://zim-wiki.org/ It's quite simple to use if all you want is to make hierarchical TODO lists that you can check off, but also lets you link between pages, do some minor formatting etc. Also, points for storing files as plain text and having very friendly git integration (just click File→Save a version, you never see any scary merge stuff since what you can do from the UI is so restricted).

180 points by yid 12y ago

Evernote's slow push toward the social ecosystem has been worrying me. It's fundamentally a mind-dump / journal to me, and I have absolutely zero desire to share notes straight from the program itself. The fact that I could send out personal journal entries to Facebook worries me, even though it's not likely...I just don't like the functionality being there to begin with. I'll definitely be looking into this.

orthecreedence 12y ago
Check out https://turtl.it https://turtl.it too! (Disclosure, I built it). It's a private, cloud-based Evernote alternative. It doesn't have nearly all the features Evernote does yet, but it's getting there. Turtl puts privacy before all else (uses client-side crypto to protect everything).
- emsy 12y ago
  Looks great, I'll definitely have a look at it!

jimktrains2 12y ago

"None of us can get access to your personal data because we are using IndexedDB and localStorage. In fact all your information will be stored only on client side." Does this mean it's useless for multiple devices or sharing between people? I find these to be the most useful features of evernote. I make notes on my phone to look at later on my computer or share shopping lists with my wife.

sbarre 12y ago
I suspect this is where cloud integration comes in, you probably link it to your Dropbox where it will upload your encrypted data, so you can use it from more than one machine? I'm not actually sure though because I don't actually see any of the synchronization features anywhere in the settings screens.
- hamburglar 12y ago
  Yes, the main settings screen has a "Cloud Storage" popup that doesn't exactly jump out at you (I looked at that screen several times before figuring out that's where the RemoteStorage option is). You choose either Dropbox or RemoteStorage. I just tried setting up a remoteStorage server and editing files from two different browsers on the same account, and I have to say, it's pretty buggy. Lots of waiting for the little "syncing" spinner to stop, reloading pages, wondering how I know whether my files have been sent to the server, etc. I did eventually get notes I wrote on one browser to show up in the other, but only after quite a bit of determined reloading and clicking sync repeatedly on both. This really does look like an ideal application to me (and if nothing else, it introduced me to RemoteStorage, which I have a perfect use for), but I don't think it's ready to trust anything important to yet.

mynegation 12y ago

I'll give it a try. I wish there would be more open-source applications supporting encryption that I could put on my own web server, preferably with well-defined APIs so that mobile app developers could create apps on top of them. I would love to have my own RSS reader, my own pinboard.in, my own Dropbox. Owncloud and Synology apps (not open-source but close in spirit) are the examples of things I am looking for.

emsy 12y ago

I tried it myself and liked it pretty well from its look and feel but there are some caveats: -No cache manifest, so internet connection is mandatory -It defaults to local storage for your notes, so the notes are basically saved in your browser -Syncing works via Dropbox (not an option for me) or SyncStorage, which I never heard of before and which requires yet another server if you want everything self-hosted -You have to download all the dependencies and build the app locally for what could be a simple tarball -As far as I can see there is no API to build upon if you want automated notes or a custom app (though you may be able to do this via SyncStorage) Another important fact is that it's not nearly as feature rich as Evernote, so the headline is actually misleading. I'll stick with my current BTSync/Markdown files workflow and check back in a few months.

lazerwalker 12y ago
I'm curious to hear why Dropbox isn't an option for you, given that this supports client-side encryption. Ideological aversion to Condoleezza? Enterprise bureaucracy? Other?
- al2o3cr 12y ago
  Syncing via Dropbox sorta shoots the whole "no 3rd-party server dependencies" idea...
  - Inufu 12y ago
    Not necessarily - the main reason why I don't want to store my notes with Evernote is because I want to be able to use them in 50 years, not because I'm opposed to sync them with a 3rd party server.
    - yid 12y ago
      I have the same requirement for my notes. Looks like Laverna stores notes on Dropbox in JSON, which is fantastic.
    - dunham 12y ago

mcmillhj 12y ago

I realize this is a beta release, but a grammar check should probably have been done on the homepage. This could be a strong deterrent for some people.

greenyoda 12y ago
Also, the sample screen shot full of "lorem ipsum" doesn't seem very convincing. They might want to display some sample items that would look like something a real person would be doing at work.

darka 12y ago

Can this be used on Android phones in any way?

Touche 12y ago
Yes, it's responsive.

Inufu 12y ago

I'm not that excited by Lavema, but it lead me tagspaces (http://www.tagspaces.org/ http://www.tagspaces.org/), which seems much more awesome. It just saves to your local filesystem, so you can sync with drive or dropbox if you want, layer some encryption in between with fuse. There's a mobile client, but you'll have to keep the note directory synced manually with a 3rd-party app.

lugg 12y ago
Does it not work for btsync? Just curious why you would mention Dropbox and drive when they have the same privacy concerns. Or are you wanting to move away from ever note for another reason? Edit: tagspaces page says it works with bts.
- Inufu 12y ago
  I work for Google, so not really concerned about the privacy of Drive. The main reason why I don't want to use Evernote is because I want to store my notes in plain text files, so I can keep using them even in say 50 years.
  - tim_sw 12y ago
    You might like org-mode especially if you're an emacs user.
  - FireBeyond 12y ago
    You realize that Evernote stores notes in XML? Not perfect, but pretty human readable.
  - unhammer 12y ago
    If I worked for Google I'd probably be _more_ concerned since it's now colleagues who can read my stuff, not just anonymous-sysadmin-I-will-never-meet =P
PhasmaFelis 12y ago
When I've wanted to use Dropbox (or Drive, etc) to sync app data that needs to be in a certain place (game savefiles, mostly), I've had good luck just moving the data directory to my Dropbox and then symlinking from the original location. That should be doable on Android with any old terminal program, though you may need to root the device just to install basic command line tools like "ln".

binaryanomaly 12y ago

I like it. Still a bit unpolished but I'm already since longtime looking for a FOSS Evernote alternative. This one has potential.

atmosx 12y ago

Hm, the markdown support & the self-hosted option convinced me :-) great job guys!

benrapscallion 12y ago

Evernote's biggest distinguishing feature is OCR, which seems to be missing here.

kenrick95 12y ago
Wait, Microsoft's OneNote also have OCR.

amckinlay 12y ago

This is especially relevant now that Springpad is shutting down (https://springpad.com/blog/2014/05/springpad-says-goodbye/ https://springpad.com/blog/2014/05/springpad-says-goodbye/).

Cub3 12y ago

I've been using tiddlywiki (http://tiddlywiki.com/ http://tiddlywiki.com/) for years, same concept except stores in a single file and as a plus uses the "Stanford JavaScript Crypto Library" for password protection, I sync this between machines (incl. mobile there are a few clients) with btsync

lsiebert 12y ago

I currently use SpringPad (which can tell when I clip an amazon page I wanted the book, not the amazon page)... which is going away. I'd love to be able to transition to something other than Evernote.

donniezazen 12y ago
Being a Linux user and Evernote's strong desire to not even support Evernote for Chrome on Linux has been one of the main points against use Evernote. I have wanted a true Evernote competitor for so long. SpringPad going down was a bad news. I am glad there are open source solutions that can be used at least for basic functionalities.

nppc 12y ago

This looks more like Notational Velocity and definitely not anything like Evernote

nobotty 12y ago

Why do these things never have syntax highlighting? It's like nobody cares about collaboration among hackers

dscrd 12y ago

Somebody oughta make an OrgMode (or a reasonable simplification of it) for the cloud.

BugBrother 12y ago
Something like that was my hobby project to learn JavaScript well. (Using the Org::Parser from CPAN.) Far from complete. I got stuck on that I am unable to create a good UX. :-) You want to give all users a grounding in Emacs and you want to make it usable for others, at the same time. Now the plan is to get a MVP off the ground and make the View system simple enough so designers can rewrite it and rework the look and command structure. (This is not just to make a commercial web app based on Emacs, with all income assigned to FSF for fun. Promise. :-) The plan really is GPL.)

unhammer 12y ago

Me and my gf went through a range of note-taking apps to find one that she could use for organising her business TODO's and notes. She did try Evernote, but the feeling was always "what do I do with all this". She ended up using the much more barebones http://zim-wiki.org/ http://zim-wiki.org/ It's quite simple to use if all you want is to make hierarchical TODO lists that you can check off, but also lets you link between pages, do some minor formatting etc. Also, points for storing files as plain text and having very friendly git integration (just click File→Save a version, you never see any scary merge stuff since what you can do from the UI is so restricted).