4 ms·

Unfortunately a new balance is not easily achieved. Take "editing" as an example: Most of us read "well edited" books, therefore we take "editing" for granted.

by yawz 12y ago

Unfortunately a new balance is not easily achieved. Take "editing" as an example: Most of us read "well edited" books, therefore we take "editing" for granted. I am an amateur book reviewer & blogger. And I regularly come across badly edited or not-at-all edited books/stories. IMHO, editing can be (at least for me) the difference between greatly enjoying a story and parking a book on the side after a few dozen pages. Then publishers also come with some sort of brand loyalty. I have my favorite publishers (and editors for that matter). For example, when I hear about the book rights acquisitions of a new author from my favorite publishers or imprints I get really excited. Because I know they've been publishing the type of content I enjoy. So, all in all, it's shortsighted to see publishers as just "middle-man". This ecosystem has evolved to be more complicated than that.

dublinben 12y ago
1. Editing can and will still happen outside of the traditional publishing relationship. Authors should hire editors directly before releasing their books. Many authors already trade editing with other authors. 2. You're an incredible outlier for even being cognizant of the publisher of your favorite books, let alone having any kind of loyalty. Readers who are not industry-insiders never hear about book rights acquisitions.
- jasode 12y ago
  > You're an incredible outlier for even being cognizant of the publisher of your favorite books, I don't know what kind of books grandparent had in mind (fiction or non-fiction?). For me, I have a general awareness of technical book publishers and their strengths. Some examples... In general an Addison-Wesley or Morgan-Kaufmann book is better edited than an Apress book. Also, some publishers tend to gravitate towards certain strengths such as MK's line of books on big data & data mining. O'Reilly and Manning publishers tend to respond very quickly to the latest technologies (some might say "fads") with a topical book whereas Addison-Wesley is much more conservative. Of course, there are exceptions to all of the above but the general tendencies of tech publishers can be used to signal the potential quality of a book (especially for unknown authors.) I don't think the HN crowd would be outliers by having a sense of where the various tech book publishers fit in the marketplace.
  - dublinben 12y ago
    If you set aside technology books, I think you'll find the situation quite different. Can you tell me the publisher of the last fiction book you read? How about the publisher of A Game of Thrones? Or the publisher of Piketty's book "Capital in the Twenty-First Century" or any of the NYTimes Bestsellers?
- yawz 12y ago
  1. Is that based on revenue share? How many new authors can afford good editors? How many writers are good editors themselves? It's relatively easy to proofread but to edit a book is/should be different. And obviously this is just one of the many aspects that comes to my mind. Cover art, PR, marketing? All this could be done without a publishing house but there's value in each one of those. Value = money and/or time (something that a (new) writer may not have in abundance). 2. Fair enough. But arguably the "value" is still there (having an artistic vision, etc.) for the aspiring authors. I feel like I'm being the devil's advocate sometimes when discussing about publishers. There are many things that are suboptimal or wrong about their business practices but I think it doesn't necessarily mean we have to underestimate their contribution to the whole ecosystem. I, for one, am very curious about where the new equilibrium will settle and how many other disrupting forces we're going to witness.
- kasey_junk 12y ago
  As to point 1). In the publishing industry "editing" is not the same thing as "copy editing". Good editors are typically (at least with their established authors) involved very early on in the process and are usually pretty close collaborators with the author with regards to the shape/narrative structure/pacing etc. Waiting to get that sort of editor until directory before releasing a book is akin to getting an analyst involved right before shipping a software product. The economy that allows for this time/skill intensive work is the blockbuster phenomenon. J. K. Rowling's later books didn't just repay her publishers for the investments in her early ones, they subsidized a large percentage of all the other books published while she was popular. Lots of industries work this way, movies, music and VC are all predicated on a similar model. Does that mean it can't be disrupted? No of course not, but it isn't as simple as "authors can hire their own editors", because quite frankly none could afford it.
  - dragonwriter 12y ago
    > Lots of industries work this way, movies, music and VC are all predicated on a similar model. Does that mean it can't be disrupted? No of course not, but it isn't as simple as "authors can hire their own editors", because quite frankly none could afford it. Well, some could, but only ones that are already succesful (either as authors in the existing system, or from some other field.)
jseliger 12y ago
I am an amateur book reviewer & blogger You should really put the URL in your HN profile and comment. And I regularly come across badly edited or not-at-all edited books/stories I also write a blog about books and ideas, and I see the same things. That being said, it is possible to hire editors. I hired one for my own novel, ASKING ANNA (for the curious: http://www.amazon.com/Asking-Anna-Novel-Jake-Seliger/dp/1495242218 http://www.amazon.com/Asking-Anna-Novel-Jake-Seliger/dp/1495...). I doubt it's perfectly edited but so far I've only gotten one typo report. I have my favorite publishers (and editors for that matter). I think you're anomalous in that aspect.
- thinkling 12y ago
  I doubt it's perfectly edited but so far I've only gotten one typo report. Copyediting != editing. Copyediting is editing for correct spelling and correct grammar. Editing a book implies looking at its overall content, focus, structure and giving very high-level feedback. Editing is product-design, if you will, and copy-editing is more like quality assurance.
  - jseliger 12y ago
    "Copyediting != editing" Sort of; see http://kriswrites.com/2013/01/30/the-business-rusch-hiring-editors/#sthash.9NkgCutf.dpbs http://kriswrites.com/2013/01/30/the-business-rusch-hiring-e... and http://kriswrites.com/2013/01/23/the-business-rusch-editorial-revisions/#sthash.6r2eoUTx.dpbs http://kriswrites.com/2013/01/23/the-business-rusch-editoria... .

by yawz 12y ago

dublinben 12y ago

1. Editing can and will still happen outside of the traditional publishing relationship. Authors should hire editors directly before releasing their books. Many authors already trade editing with other authors. 2. You're an incredible outlier for even being cognizant of the publisher of your favorite books, let alone having any kind of loyalty. Readers who are not industry-insiders never hear about book rights acquisitions.

jasode 12y ago
> You're an incredible outlier for even being cognizant of the publisher of your favorite books, I don't know what kind of books grandparent had in mind (fiction or non-fiction?). For me, I have a general awareness of technical book publishers and their strengths. Some examples... In general an Addison-Wesley or Morgan-Kaufmann book is better edited than an Apress book. Also, some publishers tend to gravitate towards certain strengths such as MK's line of books on big data & data mining. O'Reilly and Manning publishers tend to respond very quickly to the latest technologies (some might say "fads") with a topical book whereas Addison-Wesley is much more conservative. Of course, there are exceptions to all of the above but the general tendencies of tech publishers can be used to signal the potential quality of a book (especially for unknown authors.) I don't think the HN crowd would be outliers by having a sense of where the various tech book publishers fit in the marketplace.
- dublinben 12y ago
  If you set aside technology books, I think you'll find the situation quite different. Can you tell me the publisher of the last fiction book you read? How about the publisher of A Game of Thrones? Or the publisher of Piketty's book "Capital in the Twenty-First Century" or any of the NYTimes Bestsellers?
yawz 12y ago
1. Is that based on revenue share? How many new authors can afford good editors? How many writers are good editors themselves? It's relatively easy to proofread but to edit a book is/should be different. And obviously this is just one of the many aspects that comes to my mind. Cover art, PR, marketing? All this could be done without a publishing house but there's value in each one of those. Value = money and/or time (something that a (new) writer may not have in abundance). 2. Fair enough. But arguably the "value" is still there (having an artistic vision, etc.) for the aspiring authors. I feel like I'm being the devil's advocate sometimes when discussing about publishers. There are many things that are suboptimal or wrong about their business practices but I think it doesn't necessarily mean we have to underestimate their contribution to the whole ecosystem. I, for one, am very curious about where the new equilibrium will settle and how many other disrupting forces we're going to witness.
kasey_junk 12y ago
As to point 1). In the publishing industry "editing" is not the same thing as "copy editing". Good editors are typically (at least with their established authors) involved very early on in the process and are usually pretty close collaborators with the author with regards to the shape/narrative structure/pacing etc. Waiting to get that sort of editor until directory before releasing a book is akin to getting an analyst involved right before shipping a software product. The economy that allows for this time/skill intensive work is the blockbuster phenomenon. J. K. Rowling's later books didn't just repay her publishers for the investments in her early ones, they subsidized a large percentage of all the other books published while she was popular. Lots of industries work this way, movies, music and VC are all predicated on a similar model. Does that mean it can't be disrupted? No of course not, but it isn't as simple as "authors can hire their own editors", because quite frankly none could afford it.
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  > Lots of industries work this way, movies, music and VC are all predicated on a similar model. Does that mean it can't be disrupted? No of course not, but it isn't as simple as "authors can hire their own editors", because quite frankly none could afford it. Well, some could, but only ones that are already succesful (either as authors in the existing system, or from some other field.)

jseliger 12y ago

I am an amateur book reviewer & blogger You should really put the URL in your HN profile and comment. And I regularly come across badly edited or not-at-all edited books/stories I also write a blog about books and ideas, and I see the same things. That being said, it is possible to hire editors. I hired one for my own novel, ASKING ANNA (for the curious: http://www.amazon.com/Asking-Anna-Novel-Jake-Seliger/dp/1495242218 http://www.amazon.com/Asking-Anna-Novel-Jake-Seliger/dp/1495...). I doubt it's perfectly edited but so far I've only gotten one typo report. I have my favorite publishers (and editors for that matter). I think you're anomalous in that aspect.

thinkling 12y ago
I doubt it's perfectly edited but so far I've only gotten one typo report. Copyediting != editing. Copyediting is editing for correct spelling and correct grammar. Editing a book implies looking at its overall content, focus, structure and giving very high-level feedback. Editing is product-design, if you will, and copy-editing is more like quality assurance.
- jseliger 12y ago
  "Copyediting != editing" Sort of; see http://kriswrites.com/2013/01/30/the-business-rusch-hiring-editors/#sthash.9NkgCutf.dpbs http://kriswrites.com/2013/01/30/the-business-rusch-hiring-e... and http://kriswrites.com/2013/01/23/the-business-rusch-editorial-revisions/#sthash.6r2eoUTx.dpbs http://kriswrites.com/2013/01/23/the-business-rusch-editoria... .