7 ms·

As a foreigner who has been successfully ousted from the U. S. by the H1-B quota, let me tell you that life is better in Canada. The permanent residence progra

by mustpax 17y ago

As a foreigner who has been successfully ousted from the U. S. by the H1-B quota, let me tell you that life is better in Canada. The permanent residence program for skilled labor in Canada is infinitely less cumbersome and convoluted than the green card track in the U.S. More importantly, it only takes about a year or so, regardless of your nationality (hi Indians). As for taxes, I was paying taxes in California, so the difference in total taxes is really not that much. Plus you get free healthcare. The healthcare benefits I get from my employer on top of government healthcare really goes above and beyond what I've seen in the U.S. So, yeah folks, please do as I did, vote with your feet. No one deserves to have their hard work viewed as parasitic.

vijayr 17y ago
Just a year? that is awesome. What about other restrictions? Do you need to be 'tied' to a employer, like in US? Can you start companies? (not possible on H1-B)
- mustpax 17y ago
  Check out the Canadian Gov't website on skilled employment: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/skilled/index.asp http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/skilled/index.asp You don't have to be in Canada, or work for a Canadian company, to apply. There are multiple criteria for determining who is eligible, if you have an employer sponsor it makes it easier to qualify. But if you have decent amount of personal savings, a Bachelors degree, a couple years of experience you can qualify without one. The temporary work permit, the Canadian equivalent of the H1-B, is more restrictive. You are tied to your employer, probably can't start your own company. But this is completely orthogonal to your permanent residence application. You can do your thing, work outside Canada until your permanent residence is granted, then fly over and start up.
  - artaak 17y ago
    I do not like to quench the excitement about Canadian immigration opportunities for skilled workers, but you guys really need to check the recent "improvements" in that process. Namely, the list of skilled workers has been recently (Feb, 2008) reduced to a couple dozens professions (http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/skilled/apply-who-instructions.asp#list http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/skilled/apply-who-ins...). In particular, you really need to be a Cook or a Woodcutter with one year experience, to qualify now. Just my $0.02.
    - mustpax 17y ago
      Thanks for digging that up. But being someone who recently went through this process, let me clarify some things to the best of my ability (in other words IANAL). This list of occupations only matters if you are applying for residency without securing employment in Canada beforehand. Not altogether unusual, but remember this is a prerequisite to H1-B too.
- nearlyacanuck 17y ago
  The only restrictions are you can't vote in federal elections and can't join the army. To keep PR you have to be resident for 3 out of every 5 years, but after 3 years you can get Canadian citizenship. You can work for anyone or no-one, start your own business or continue working for a foreign company. You are subject to intensive interogation by Canadian immigration every time you enter the country. You will be grilled for several seconds on topics such as 'how are you?' and 'did you have a good flight?' - other than that it's the same as entering America.
  - ajju 17y ago
    LOL. That's awesome :D As an immigrant / entrepreneur trying every thing I can to legally work for my startup full time in the US, I'll seriously consider Canada if I fail.
    - ijnouibiu 17y ago
      But remember you will be subject to their socialist universal free healthcare system.
      - potatolicious 17y ago
        Wonderful! :) I still don't get why the word "socialist" has such a negative connotation in the USA.
        TriinT 17y ago
        Because Americans react to some words in a Pavlovian manner. It's a way of turning their independent thinking capabilities off. For instance, white collar criminals who engage in predatory activities always use the words "free market" as a shield. If you keep attacking them of wrongdoing, you are automatically labeled "anti-American", "socialist", "communist", "liberal" or whatever. What is more interesting is to see people who are exploited and raped on a daily basis by the so-called "free market" to defend it so passionately as though they benefitted from it. Reminds me of a homeless bum I once saw in NYC... some girls wearing Obama stickers walked by and the dude started shouting "he's a fucking commie!!!!" I didn't know whether to laugh or weep. BTW, the dude was black and a Vietnam veteran. Don't get me wrong, I am all for free market, but we don't have one in the U.S. and we never had one. The country is run by the cartels, for the cartels. Whoever points a finger is bashed, sometimes even invited to move to France. It's quite hilarious, really... and also sad.
thras 17y ago
Canada is far more restrictive about non-skilled immigration than the U.S. It's the political decision to turn America half-hispanic by the next century -- despite what anybody here actually wants -- that has killed enthusiasm for skilled immigration in America. If we want more and better skilled immigrants, we need more xenophobes, not less. Limit unskilled immigration, and Americans will be happy about skilled immigration.
- davidw 17y ago
  > It's the political decision to turn America half-hispanic by the next century Part of the reason I dislike seeing political articles here is that they invariably draw out some seriously uninformed, inane, hand-waving types of comments that would be completely unacceptable when attached to technical articles. Do you have any evidence that there has been a "political decision to turn America half hispanic"? Not 60%? Not 40%? Who took it - the Obama Death Panels? > If we want more and better skilled immigrants, we need more xenophobes, not less. "More xenophobes" would not like the "brown people" from India, "slanty eyed" eastern Asians, or most Europeans either for that matter (they're probably communists), even if they're qualified. After all, they are xenophobes, right?
  - thras 17y ago
    ...they invariably draw out some seriously uninformed, inane, hand-waving types of comments that would be completely unacceptable when attached to technical articles... And I dislike seeing these articles because they brings out the kooks who believe that it's more important to think happy thoughts than look at the numbers. The U.S. Census estimates are always the first place to go: http://www.census.gov/population/www/projections/index.html http://www.census.gov/population/www/projections/index.html You'll find the 1990 projections for 2100 there, which suggest a 1/3rd Hispanic population. The 2004 revisions only published projections for 2050, but I saw information at the time that suggested similar revisions to the 2100 projections would lead to a U.S. that is about 1/2 Hispanic by 2100. Who took the decision to do this to America? Well, the most important piece of legislation in this regard was the 1965 Immigration and Nationality Act. So I blame Ted Kennedy :). I won't cheapen the debate by replying to your last paragraph. And I'd appreciate an apology for the suggestion that I was the one uniformed about population projections here.
pkaler 17y ago
As for taxes, I was paying taxes in California, so the difference in total taxes is really not that much. Plus you get free healthcare. The healthcare benefits I get from my employer on top of government healthcare really goes above and beyond what I've seen in the U.S. Just to be clear, Canadian Health Care is not "free". It is publicly-funded and privately-delivered through a single-payer insurance system. For example, my MSP payments are $250 or so for each quarter. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Canada http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Canada http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_Health_Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_Health_Act I think we should be extra clear about how the Canadian system actually works especially given the debate currently in the US.
- potatolicious 17y ago
  Good point, but the point still stands: "free" in this case doesn't mean not paying for it, but rather that it's a flat-fee service with no exhaustible upper bound on usage (e.g. if you get hospitalized 5 times in a year the insurance company won't bail). In the Canadian system there is no chance that the insurance company will weasel out of a payment using a litany of the common excuses that are used in the USA. If you are covered, you are covered, and that's peace of mind you can't even buy with money in America.
- mustpax 17y ago
  Thanks for the clarification. I did not mean to disregard the considerable costs of providing universal healthcare. For what it's worth, given my tax bracket and that I'm in my twenties, financially speaking, I am most likely a net win for the system.
potatolicious 17y ago
How do you find the salary difference? I'm a Canadian currently in the USA because American companies were offering me nearly double what any Canadian company was willing to offer... I'd be interested to know if this trend only applies to new grads, or if Canadians simply earn consistently and significantly less than Americans when it comes to engineering.
- nearlyacanuck 17y ago
  That is still a problem, especially in BC. Everybody wants to live in Vancouver, so they can pay peanuts
  - potatolicious 17y ago
    'Tis true. Nobody in Vancouver would break $60K, and most were leaning towards lower $50's. Meanwhile I'm working for a little over $100K just a few hours south in Seattle.
  - sown 17y ago
    Where are people needed the most in Canada?
- mustpax 17y ago
  I do make less (around 10% less) in Canada than I did in the states. But then I pay almost half of what I paid for rent in San Francisco. Food was better and cheaper in San Francisco, but that's not my biggest expense. So I end up saving more overall. I'm working for the same company that I was working for in the U.S. So that might explain why my income is pretty consistent.
xexers 17y ago
I am Canadian. I find the culture towards imigrants is much better than what I see on the news in the USA. We welcome most imigrants. However, there are still lots of problems with the system in Canada - mostly that we only take in university educated people, but we really need tradespeople as well.
- nearlyacanuck 17y ago
  There are 2 parallel systems. Permanent Resient takes a few years to process, requires higher education but has very few limits. Then each province has a fast track for needed skills, you must have a job offer and have some specific trade/qualification but it takes < year. IFAIK you can change jobs once you get there.
nearlyacanuck 17y ago
There is (was?) a program in Alberta to fast track PR for any H1B holder - so if any highly skilled foreigners in the US just made it to the border they were welcome. Of course you end up working in Alberta !

by mustpax 17y ago

vijayr 17y ago

Just a year? that is awesome. What about other restrictions? Do you need to be 'tied' to a employer, like in US? Can you start companies? (not possible on H1-B)

mustpax 17y ago
Check out the Canadian Gov't website on skilled employment: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/skilled/index.asp http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/skilled/index.asp You don't have to be in Canada, or work for a Canadian company, to apply. There are multiple criteria for determining who is eligible, if you have an employer sponsor it makes it easier to qualify. But if you have decent amount of personal savings, a Bachelors degree, a couple years of experience you can qualify without one. The temporary work permit, the Canadian equivalent of the H1-B, is more restrictive. You are tied to your employer, probably can't start your own company. But this is completely orthogonal to your permanent residence application. You can do your thing, work outside Canada until your permanent residence is granted, then fly over and start up.
- artaak 17y ago
  I do not like to quench the excitement about Canadian immigration opportunities for skilled workers, but you guys really need to check the recent "improvements" in that process. Namely, the list of skilled workers has been recently (Feb, 2008) reduced to a couple dozens professions (http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/skilled/apply-who-instructions.asp#list http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/skilled/apply-who-ins...). In particular, you really need to be a Cook or a Woodcutter with one year experience, to qualify now. Just my $0.02.
  - mustpax 17y ago
    Thanks for digging that up. But being someone who recently went through this process, let me clarify some things to the best of my ability (in other words IANAL). This list of occupations only matters if you are applying for residency without securing employment in Canada beforehand. Not altogether unusual, but remember this is a prerequisite to H1-B too.
nearlyacanuck 17y ago
The only restrictions are you can't vote in federal elections and can't join the army. To keep PR you have to be resident for 3 out of every 5 years, but after 3 years you can get Canadian citizenship. You can work for anyone or no-one, start your own business or continue working for a foreign company. You are subject to intensive interogation by Canadian immigration every time you enter the country. You will be grilled for several seconds on topics such as 'how are you?' and 'did you have a good flight?' - other than that it's the same as entering America.
- ajju 17y ago
  LOL. That's awesome :D As an immigrant / entrepreneur trying every thing I can to legally work for my startup full time in the US, I'll seriously consider Canada if I fail.
  - ijnouibiu 17y ago
    But remember you will be subject to their socialist universal free healthcare system.
    - potatolicious 17y ago
      Wonderful! :) I still don't get why the word "socialist" has such a negative connotation in the USA.
      - TriinT 17y ago
        Because Americans react to some words in a Pavlovian manner. It's a way of turning their independent thinking capabilities off. For instance, white collar criminals who engage in predatory activities always use the words "free market" as a shield. If you keep attacking them of wrongdoing, you are automatically labeled "anti-American", "socialist", "communist", "liberal" or whatever. What is more interesting is to see people who are exploited and raped on a daily basis by the so-called "free market" to defend it so passionately as though they benefitted from it. Reminds me of a homeless bum I once saw in NYC... some girls wearing Obama stickers walked by and the dude started shouting "he's a fucking commie!!!!" I didn't know whether to laugh or weep. BTW, the dude was black and a Vietnam veteran. Don't get me wrong, I am all for free market, but we don't have one in the U.S. and we never had one. The country is run by the cartels, for the cartels. Whoever points a finger is bashed, sometimes even invited to move to France. It's quite hilarious, really... and also sad.

thras 17y ago

Canada is far more restrictive about non-skilled immigration than the U.S. It's the political decision to turn America half-hispanic by the next century -- despite what anybody here actually wants -- that has killed enthusiasm for skilled immigration in America. If we want more and better skilled immigrants, we need more xenophobes, not less. Limit unskilled immigration, and Americans will be happy about skilled immigration.

davidw 17y ago
> It's the political decision to turn America half-hispanic by the next century Part of the reason I dislike seeing political articles here is that they invariably draw out some seriously uninformed, inane, hand-waving types of comments that would be completely unacceptable when attached to technical articles. Do you have any evidence that there has been a "political decision to turn America half hispanic"? Not 60%? Not 40%? Who took it - the Obama Death Panels? > If we want more and better skilled immigrants, we need more xenophobes, not less. "More xenophobes" would not like the "brown people" from India, "slanty eyed" eastern Asians, or most Europeans either for that matter (they're probably communists), even if they're qualified. After all, they are xenophobes, right?
- thras 17y ago
  ...they invariably draw out some seriously uninformed, inane, hand-waving types of comments that would be completely unacceptable when attached to technical articles... And I dislike seeing these articles because they brings out the kooks who believe that it's more important to think happy thoughts than look at the numbers. The U.S. Census estimates are always the first place to go: http://www.census.gov/population/www/projections/index.html http://www.census.gov/population/www/projections/index.html You'll find the 1990 projections for 2100 there, which suggest a 1/3rd Hispanic population. The 2004 revisions only published projections for 2050, but I saw information at the time that suggested similar revisions to the 2100 projections would lead to a U.S. that is about 1/2 Hispanic by 2100. Who took the decision to do this to America? Well, the most important piece of legislation in this regard was the 1965 Immigration and Nationality Act. So I blame Ted Kennedy :). I won't cheapen the debate by replying to your last paragraph. And I'd appreciate an apology for the suggestion that I was the one uniformed about population projections here.

pkaler 17y ago

As for taxes, I was paying taxes in California, so the difference in total taxes is really not that much. Plus you get free healthcare. The healthcare benefits I get from my employer on top of government healthcare really goes above and beyond what I've seen in the U.S. Just to be clear, Canadian Health Care is not "free". It is publicly-funded and privately-delivered through a single-payer insurance system. For example, my MSP payments are $250 or so for each quarter. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Canada http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Canada http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_Health_Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_Health_Act I think we should be extra clear about how the Canadian system actually works especially given the debate currently in the US.

potatolicious 17y ago
Good point, but the point still stands: "free" in this case doesn't mean not paying for it, but rather that it's a flat-fee service with no exhaustible upper bound on usage (e.g. if you get hospitalized 5 times in a year the insurance company won't bail). In the Canadian system there is no chance that the insurance company will weasel out of a payment using a litany of the common excuses that are used in the USA. If you are covered, you are covered, and that's peace of mind you can't even buy with money in America.
mustpax 17y ago
Thanks for the clarification. I did not mean to disregard the considerable costs of providing universal healthcare. For what it's worth, given my tax bracket and that I'm in my twenties, financially speaking, I am most likely a net win for the system.

potatolicious 17y ago

How do you find the salary difference? I'm a Canadian currently in the USA because American companies were offering me nearly double what any Canadian company was willing to offer... I'd be interested to know if this trend only applies to new grads, or if Canadians simply earn consistently and significantly less than Americans when it comes to engineering.

nearlyacanuck 17y ago
That is still a problem, especially in BC. Everybody wants to live in Vancouver, so they can pay peanuts
- potatolicious 17y ago
  'Tis true. Nobody in Vancouver would break $60K, and most were leaning towards lower $50's. Meanwhile I'm working for a little over $100K just a few hours south in Seattle.
- sown 17y ago
  Where are people needed the most in Canada?
mustpax 17y ago
I do make less (around 10% less) in Canada than I did in the states. But then I pay almost half of what I paid for rent in San Francisco. Food was better and cheaper in San Francisco, but that's not my biggest expense. So I end up saving more overall. I'm working for the same company that I was working for in the U.S. So that might explain why my income is pretty consistent.

xexers 17y ago

I am Canadian. I find the culture towards imigrants is much better than what I see on the news in the USA. We welcome most imigrants. However, there are still lots of problems with the system in Canada - mostly that we only take in university educated people, but we really need tradespeople as well.

nearlyacanuck 17y ago
There are 2 parallel systems. Permanent Resient takes a few years to process, requires higher education but has very few limits. Then each province has a fast track for needed skills, you must have a job offer and have some specific trade/qualification but it takes < year. IFAIK you can change jobs once you get there.

nearlyacanuck 17y ago

There is (was?) a program in Alberta to fast track PR for any H1B holder - so if any highly skilled foreigners in the US just made it to the border they were welcome. Of course you end up working in Alberta !