5 ms·

Anyone else want to kickstart an airline that operates with as few humans as possible? You aren't allowed to check luggage at all...(all the underbelly goes to

Anyone else want to kickstart an airline that operates with as few humans as possible? You aren't allowed to check luggage at all...(all the underbelly goes to companies like fedex and ups) just attacking it as an engineering problem?

balls187 12y ago
I'd go for the opposite. An exclusive airline that is basically 1st class through out the entire cabin. * No carry-on suit cases * Free alcohol * Free meals on all flights Membership required, and can be revoked by: * Talking on your cell phone * Not following crew member instructions * Trying to prevent the person infront of you from reclining * Trying to jump the line and board when your row isn't called * Not being able to actually lift 40lbs but requesting an exit row seat anyway * Trying to smash your carry on into an already full overhead bin * Listening to music loudly etc.
- jayzalowitz 12y ago
  I actually sort of like the membership idea, that makes the rest really easy and invalidates the need for a "rewards program" Just always provide good service.
  - jonah 12y ago
    Something like: http://www.surfair.com/ http://www.surfair.com/
- Anechoic 12y ago
  An exclusive airline that is basically 1st class through out the entire cabin. Midwest Express tried this in the late 1990's-early aughts. It didn't work out for them.
- iLoch 12y ago
  You said: * No carry-on suit cases And then you said: * Trying to smash your carry on into an already full overhead bin Are you sure this isn't just a list of your air travel pet peeves? :)
  - batiudrami 12y ago
    I assume you'd be allowed a small bag of carry on (with a laptop/book/whatever in it), just not a 'maximum allowable size suitcase with everything you need', specifically to avoid paying the checked baggage fee.
- sachinag 12y ago
  Eos tried business class only from JFK to London. It didn't work.
  - khuey 12y ago
    Seems to work for BA.
    - dingaling 12y ago
      BA have added Economy class to their previously business-only OpenSkies.
- kd5bjo 12y ago
  see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legend_Airlines http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legend_Airlines
- blantonl 12y ago
  ... and this is why entrepreneurship in airlines has not hit it's peak - yet.
- us0r 12y ago
  This is basically International airlines: * Free alcohol * Free meals on all flights plus some.
  - hobs 12y ago
    Unless you are flying first class, there is no free alcohol on the international flights I have been on. To all my children posters, I am clearly doing it wrong.
    - maccard 12y ago
      I flew economy from London to Mumbai with as much booze as I could handle, both directions. There was some sort of ban on serving alcohol in Indian airspace, but outside of that they were happy to keep giving me tiger beer until I fell asleep.
    - saryant 12y ago
      Depends on the routes. Most non-US airlines still offer free alcohol on trans-Pacific flights. Lufthansa offers free beer and wine on trans-Atlantics. Lufthy even offers free alcohol in coach on intra-EU flights.
      - mFixman 12y ago
        American Airlines offered alcohol on the Dallas <-> Buenos Aires route as of last month, like every other long distance flight I've been in.
    - us0r 12y ago
      Air France has free booze in any class.
    - MarkSweep 12y ago
      Singapore Airlines even had Singapore Slings, which are pretty good.
    - seanmcdirmid 12y ago
      I have never been on a flight between Asia and the USA that didn't offer free alcohol, but then I don't drink and never take it anyways.
- batiudrami 12y ago
  The people have spoken, and they like cheap as shit tickets in cattle class with no extras. And it's easy to see why - I'd pay maybe 10% more for an experience you describe, but it wouldn't be 10%, it'd be at least 200% more, probably significantly higher than that. Maybe when I'm older and a 12 hour flight in economy becomes really unpleasant instead of just an inconvenience.
  - balls187 12y ago
    I would assume this would cater to individuals with some amount of discretionary spending (like those who don't mind using uber, instead of a significantly cheaper public transit option), but aren't quite ready to pay for 1st class. Doing an even more bareboned airline is just a race to the bottom. Eventually you'll end up with like MAC flights in a C130 sitting in a jumpseat. So instead, try the opposite. A nicer airline.
    - dagw 12y ago
      You mean something like Eos, Silverjet, Maxjet and no doubt a half dozen other bankrupt companies? It's not like no one has had that idea before. It' been tried, again and again, and no one has made it work. Now obviously that's not saying you can't make it work, but so far the track record of everybody who has tried isn't that great.
- mattmaroon 12y ago
  I wouldn't fly an airline that forced me to check a bag. Getting it back at the gate takes too long.
bherms 12y ago
The planes practically (can) fly themselves these days now anyway. Remove the ticket people, checking bags, food/drinks on the plane, and build a nice, efficient website for booking... Then structure your routes on flexible demand. Almost like crowdbuying tickets... There are probably a low number of people (outside business travel) that need to be somewhere at an exact time. Operate the ticket buying process like Massdrop. Let the collective decide when a plane takes off. There's a lot of tweaks that could change the airline industry, but certainly no easy task.
- rabino 12y ago
  With the exorbitant costs of maintenance and fuel, plus the prorated cost of the plane itself, I'm wondering how much impact those small-ish changes could have.
- zachlipton 12y ago
  Outside business travel? Bahahhahaa. Airlines make most of their money on business travel.
- btgeekboy 12y ago
  Much of this sounds like Spirit Airlines.
Tortoise 12y ago
The problem is that you can't actually fire anyone on board the plane. Those flight attendants aren't there to serve your drinks. They're there to guide/assist you "in the unlikely event of an emergency." The pesky regulations say they need x attendants per passenger.
dsl 12y ago
Engineers often fail to understand that sometimes the cheapest solution is to throw minimum wage workers at the problem.
- alttab 12y ago
  Unless its not the cheapest solution on a different time horizon.
- mattmaroon 12y ago
  It's because they don't understand basic finance concepts. If they knew what time value of money and net present value meant, they'd realize that something that paid for itself in ten years is a bad investment. Everyone in every discipline should be required to take Finance 101.
  - sanxiyn 12y ago
    Something that pays for itself in ten years is a bad investment and how humanity progresses. Long term investment is essential and basic science requires it.
jonah 12y ago
Budget airlines like Allegiant [1] streamline thing to save money. * Very few ground staff - say 4 at a small-to-mid-sized destination. They do all tasks: Ticket agent, baggage handler, gate agent. * No connecting flights - direct only. * All the same type of equipment (MD-80s) to streamline maintenance. etc. [1]
kator 12y ago
It's called Ryan Air[1] [1] http://www.ryanair.com/ http://www.ryanair.com/
chimeracoder 12y ago
It's unlikely ever to happen, but I wish someone would start an airline that only requires pre-2001 levels of security screening[0]. I'd be interested in seeing how having some competition on security policies would affect the larger market. Would people value the sense of security that the theatre gives them, or would they prefer the less invasive measures? Unfortunately, AFAIK, every airport in the country is required either to use TSA screening or to use private security companies whose policies are set by the TSA[1], so this is unlikely ever to happen. [0] With the exception of ensuring that cockpit doors are always closed and locked during flight - this was the one absolutely critical security improvement that came out of 9/11. [1] I believe SFO is one airport that uses a private company.
- btgeekboy 12y ago
  The TSA screens operations running under 14 CFR 121; there's not much you can do about that other than fly under 14 CFR 135, which is for "Commuter and On-Demand Operations." (This is how companies like Surf Air get away with not having to have TSA screening.
maccard 12y ago
Ryanair already have this down to a T. You don't actually interact with any ryanair staff from the time you book your flight until you're passing through the gate. At that point you meet the cabincrew/stewards for your flight, two at the door who check your boarding pass and glance casually at your passport, and you then walk across the runway to board the plane in no particular order. Everything is an extra,you're bombarded with ads for the duration of the flight (particularly annoying on a 45minute flight where they start at takeoff and keep going until you land). You also print your own boarding pass, and are normally located as far as humanly possible from the airport terminal, in an airport nowhere near the location advertised (London Stansted, Barcelona Reus, Paris Beauvais). But I can fly to London return for 30 euro pretty much any time of the year in return for that.

balls187 12y ago

I'd go for the opposite. An exclusive airline that is basically 1st class through out the entire cabin. * No carry-on suit cases * Free alcohol * Free meals on all flights Membership required, and can be revoked by: * Talking on your cell phone * Not following crew member instructions * Trying to prevent the person infront of you from reclining * Trying to jump the line and board when your row isn't called * Not being able to actually lift 40lbs but requesting an exit row seat anyway * Trying to smash your carry on into an already full overhead bin * Listening to music loudly etc.

jayzalowitz 12y ago
I actually sort of like the membership idea, that makes the rest really easy and invalidates the need for a "rewards program" Just always provide good service.
- jonah 12y ago
  Something like: http://www.surfair.com/ http://www.surfair.com/
Anechoic 12y ago
An exclusive airline that is basically 1st class through out the entire cabin. Midwest Express tried this in the late 1990's-early aughts. It didn't work out for them.
iLoch 12y ago
You said: * No carry-on suit cases And then you said: * Trying to smash your carry on into an already full overhead bin Are you sure this isn't just a list of your air travel pet peeves? :)
- batiudrami 12y ago
  I assume you'd be allowed a small bag of carry on (with a laptop/book/whatever in it), just not a 'maximum allowable size suitcase with everything you need', specifically to avoid paying the checked baggage fee.
sachinag 12y ago
Eos tried business class only from JFK to London. It didn't work.
- khuey 12y ago
  Seems to work for BA.
  - dingaling 12y ago
    BA have added Economy class to their previously business-only OpenSkies.
kd5bjo 12y ago
see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legend_Airlines http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legend_Airlines
blantonl 12y ago
... and this is why entrepreneurship in airlines has not hit it's peak - yet.
us0r 12y ago
This is basically International airlines: * Free alcohol * Free meals on all flights plus some.
- hobs 12y ago
  Unless you are flying first class, there is no free alcohol on the international flights I have been on. To all my children posters, I am clearly doing it wrong.
  - maccard 12y ago
    I flew economy from London to Mumbai with as much booze as I could handle, both directions. There was some sort of ban on serving alcohol in Indian airspace, but outside of that they were happy to keep giving me tiger beer until I fell asleep.
  - saryant 12y ago
    Depends on the routes. Most non-US airlines still offer free alcohol on trans-Pacific flights. Lufthansa offers free beer and wine on trans-Atlantics. Lufthy even offers free alcohol in coach on intra-EU flights.
    - mFixman 12y ago
      American Airlines offered alcohol on the Dallas <-> Buenos Aires route as of last month, like every other long distance flight I've been in.
  - us0r 12y ago
    Air France has free booze in any class.
  - MarkSweep 12y ago
    Singapore Airlines even had Singapore Slings, which are pretty good.
  - seanmcdirmid 12y ago
    I have never been on a flight between Asia and the USA that didn't offer free alcohol, but then I don't drink and never take it anyways.
batiudrami 12y ago
The people have spoken, and they like cheap as shit tickets in cattle class with no extras. And it's easy to see why - I'd pay maybe 10% more for an experience you describe, but it wouldn't be 10%, it'd be at least 200% more, probably significantly higher than that. Maybe when I'm older and a 12 hour flight in economy becomes really unpleasant instead of just an inconvenience.
- balls187 12y ago
  I would assume this would cater to individuals with some amount of discretionary spending (like those who don't mind using uber, instead of a significantly cheaper public transit option), but aren't quite ready to pay for 1st class. Doing an even more bareboned airline is just a race to the bottom. Eventually you'll end up with like MAC flights in a C130 sitting in a jumpseat. So instead, try the opposite. A nicer airline.
  - dagw 12y ago
    You mean something like Eos, Silverjet, Maxjet and no doubt a half dozen other bankrupt companies? It's not like no one has had that idea before. It' been tried, again and again, and no one has made it work. Now obviously that's not saying you can't make it work, but so far the track record of everybody who has tried isn't that great.
mattmaroon 12y ago
I wouldn't fly an airline that forced me to check a bag. Getting it back at the gate takes too long.

bherms 12y ago

The planes practically (can) fly themselves these days now anyway. Remove the ticket people, checking bags, food/drinks on the plane, and build a nice, efficient website for booking... Then structure your routes on flexible demand. Almost like crowdbuying tickets... There are probably a low number of people (outside business travel) that need to be somewhere at an exact time. Operate the ticket buying process like Massdrop. Let the collective decide when a plane takes off. There's a lot of tweaks that could change the airline industry, but certainly no easy task.

rabino 12y ago
With the exorbitant costs of maintenance and fuel, plus the prorated cost of the plane itself, I'm wondering how much impact those small-ish changes could have.
zachlipton 12y ago
Outside business travel? Bahahhahaa. Airlines make most of their money on business travel.
btgeekboy 12y ago
Much of this sounds like Spirit Airlines.

Tortoise 12y ago

The problem is that you can't actually fire anyone on board the plane. Those flight attendants aren't there to serve your drinks. They're there to guide/assist you "in the unlikely event of an emergency." The pesky regulations say they need x attendants per passenger.

dsl 12y ago

Engineers often fail to understand that sometimes the cheapest solution is to throw minimum wage workers at the problem.

alttab 12y ago
Unless its not the cheapest solution on a different time horizon.
mattmaroon 12y ago
It's because they don't understand basic finance concepts. If they knew what time value of money and net present value meant, they'd realize that something that paid for itself in ten years is a bad investment. Everyone in every discipline should be required to take Finance 101.
- sanxiyn 12y ago
  Something that pays for itself in ten years is a bad investment and how humanity progresses. Long term investment is essential and basic science requires it.

jonah 12y ago

Budget airlines like Allegiant [1] streamline thing to save money. * Very few ground staff - say 4 at a small-to-mid-sized destination. They do all tasks: Ticket agent, baggage handler, gate agent. * No connecting flights - direct only. * All the same type of equipment (MD-80s) to streamline maintenance. etc. [1]

kator 12y ago

It's called Ryan Air[1] [1] http://www.ryanair.com/ http://www.ryanair.com/

chimeracoder 12y ago

It's unlikely ever to happen, but I wish someone would start an airline that only requires pre-2001 levels of security screening[0]. I'd be interested in seeing how having some competition on security policies would affect the larger market. Would people value the sense of security that the theatre gives them, or would they prefer the less invasive measures? Unfortunately, AFAIK, every airport in the country is required either to use TSA screening or to use private security companies whose policies are set by the TSA[1], so this is unlikely ever to happen. [0] With the exception of ensuring that cockpit doors are always closed and locked during flight - this was the one absolutely critical security improvement that came out of 9/11. [1] I believe SFO is one airport that uses a private company.

btgeekboy 12y ago
The TSA screens operations running under 14 CFR 121; there's not much you can do about that other than fly under 14 CFR 135, which is for "Commuter and On-Demand Operations." (This is how companies like Surf Air get away with not having to have TSA screening.

maccard 12y ago

Ryanair already have this down to a T. You don't actually interact with any ryanair staff from the time you book your flight until you're passing through the gate. At that point you meet the cabincrew/stewards for your flight, two at the door who check your boarding pass and glance casually at your passport, and you then walk across the runway to board the plane in no particular order. Everything is an extra,you're bombarded with ads for the duration of the flight (particularly annoying on a 45minute flight where they start at takeoff and keep going until you land). You also print your own boarding pass, and are normally located as far as humanly possible from the airport terminal, in an airport nowhere near the location advertised (London Stansted, Barcelona Reus, Paris Beauvais). But I can fly to London return for 30 euro pretty much any time of the year in return for that.