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Everyone wants to be told that it isn't their fault that bad things have happened. Its a pernicious, harmful urge most often on display in courtrooms and discus

Everyone wants to be told that it isn't their fault that bad things have happened. Its a pernicious, harmful urge most often on display in courtrooms and discussions on weight and diet. Unfortunately reality is what it is: if you eat without consideration and control in this modern world of low-cost calories, then you will get fat. Accepting and acknowledging that you are 100% accountable as to what and how much you eat is a necessary first step to avoiding that end state.

Luc 12y ago
It's probably rational to expect people to behave in irrational ways, isn't it? Calling people 100% accountable for their actions is not a reflection of reality, it's morality.
- everyone 12y ago
  Yeah I think in a rational society nothing would be left up to willpower, moral fortitude, honour etc. as they are bound to fail. However they are still attainable ideals and worth striving for. I certainly have a tendency to be fat, I am always really hungry and just plain greedy when it comes to food, my dad has always been a bit fat, I grew up eating oven food: waffles, fried chicken etc. When I started getting close to 30 I could see myself starting to get fat and I just went "No! I will not be fat" In aid of this I have developed myself a pretty healthy lifestyle over the years that includes plenty of exercise, fruits vegetables and water, and I abstain from sugar and things of that ilk. As a result I am fitter than most people my age, in fact I'm doing a 200k cycle in a few weeks :) edit: You know there is probably a willpower / self worth feedback cycle too. If you give into temptation once you feel bad about yourself and are probably then more likely to to fall again.
loceng 12y ago
The food and quality of food that is available to many people is a factor, which is could be said is generally out of their control. I don't think it's helpful to blame the individual as we are all part of systems.
morgante 12y ago
> Everyone wants to be told that it isn't their fault that bad things have happened. Actually, the general cultural attitudes are to castigate overweight individuals for some sort of moral failing. In reality, it is substantially harder for different people with different genes to maintain a lower weight. Disregarding that is purely callous and is equivalent to denying the existence of phenomena like addiction. People are 100% accountable, but that doesn't mean we should ignore that it's harder for certain people to make the "right" choice. It also doesn't mean we shouldn't give them support and assistance to make the right choice.
- joel_perl_prog 12y ago
  I think it's both. I see both happening. I see major attitudes of helplessness or victim mentality. Or just ambivalence. Go to any mall. We all know this story. But also, it then becomes a thing where those who do have their head in the right place to pursue health in a practical and beneficiary (edit: beneficial) manner, these folks often do turn around and moralize. It's too bad. The real truth is, we need to forget about those types of things, for a little while at least, and concentrate purely on the facts. The consequences. What is actually occurring. Because in the end, it doesn't matter what peoples' intentions are, or motives, or desires, or anything else. What matters are consequences. That said, of course it's incumbent upon anyone promoting health to offer a helping hand, only, and never anything else. Never any judgment. Because not one of us is "above it."
FLUX-YOU 12y ago
>Accepting and acknowledging that you are 100% accountable as to what and how much you eat is a necessary first step to avoiding that end state. You are technically correct, except in the case of children who were raised with terrible eating habits and found themselves with the same habits and damage in adulthood. In my (terribly uninformed) opinion, I think this is more common than we give it credit, and the behavioral effects of several years or more of terrible eating is more powerful and controlling than we give it credit. The statement "You are 100% accountable" is very good for empowering individuals to change, but it is commonly confused as something intended to shame.
- marcosdumay 12y ago
  If you want to improve, you'd better take accountability. Looking for places where to put blame is useless in situations where there isn't moral hazard, or where you are unable to punish the blamed. On those cases, you're left with the choice of accepting your part of the problem and correcting it, or keep suffering.
VLM 12y ago
Experience with the root cause of stomach ulcers and mental illness would seem to indicate the philosophical moral arguments about "weakness" and "accountability" eventually end up sounding obsolete, regretted, and medieval. "if you eat without consideration and control" the battle is you vs an entire army of PR people and biochemists focused on defeating you for profit. My betting money is on the army. The moral and ethical failure is creating a civilization designed to kill in exchange for a few making high profits, its not a moral or ethical failure for some wanna-be Rambo's getting wiped out by the combined arms attack of an entire army. Or, a "hate the game not the players" argument.
jusben1369 12y ago
This argument can really be filed under the "I want to wash my hands of the whole affair by stating fat people simply should eat less and it's all their fault" Obesity rates have soared. Inquisitive minds want to know what is driving that change? It appears to be more than simply "oh a whole new generation just doesn't have the will power of people as recently as 20 or 25 years ago" As this article points out people who are trying to lose weight and following the advice of 'experts' may have been doing the wrong thing Staying hungry eating grain bread, pastas and fruit and not satiating themselves with enough fats or proteins. Jump in and join the discussion don't try and dismiss it with a disdainful wave of the hand.
- DanBC 12y ago
  The reason that Americans are fat include never walking anywhere but always using their cars; and drinking huge amounts of sugared water. http://imgur.com/9Xa92tr http://imgur.com/9Xa92tr http://imgur.com/mUJsbPu http://imgur.com/mUJsbPu http://imgur.com/GxgrGWg http://imgur.com/GxgrGWg Experts have never said "eat bread" or "eat pasta" to people dieting. Are you mistaking "expert advice" for "populist nonsense"? You wouldn't be alone. Every single HN thread about nutrition contains fucking awful pseudo-scientific nonsense supported by anecdote with no actual science anywhere.
  - rdtsc 12y ago
    Given how little calories exercise burn per hour or per mile and I don't see blame on walking or not being a big factor. It surely is in the popular culture. Most importantly this idea is dangerous because it is used often in the PR campaigns of processed food manufacturers. "Drink the 1L soda bottle, it is ok, because then you can walk around the block to burn it off!" kind of idea.
    - bjlorenzen 12y ago
      The act of walking itself doesn't burn very many calories, no, but it does strengthen your legs (the largest muscles in your body) which then burn more calories 24/7.

Luc 12y ago

It's probably rational to expect people to behave in irrational ways, isn't it? Calling people 100% accountable for their actions is not a reflection of reality, it's morality.

everyone 12y ago
Yeah I think in a rational society nothing would be left up to willpower, moral fortitude, honour etc. as they are bound to fail. However they are still attainable ideals and worth striving for. I certainly have a tendency to be fat, I am always really hungry and just plain greedy when it comes to food, my dad has always been a bit fat, I grew up eating oven food: waffles, fried chicken etc. When I started getting close to 30 I could see myself starting to get fat and I just went "No! I will not be fat" In aid of this I have developed myself a pretty healthy lifestyle over the years that includes plenty of exercise, fruits vegetables and water, and I abstain from sugar and things of that ilk. As a result I am fitter than most people my age, in fact I'm doing a 200k cycle in a few weeks :) edit: You know there is probably a willpower / self worth feedback cycle too. If you give into temptation once you feel bad about yourself and are probably then more likely to to fall again.

loceng 12y ago

The food and quality of food that is available to many people is a factor, which is could be said is generally out of their control. I don't think it's helpful to blame the individual as we are all part of systems.

morgante 12y ago

> Everyone wants to be told that it isn't their fault that bad things have happened. Actually, the general cultural attitudes are to castigate overweight individuals for some sort of moral failing. In reality, it is substantially harder for different people with different genes to maintain a lower weight. Disregarding that is purely callous and is equivalent to denying the existence of phenomena like addiction. People are 100% accountable, but that doesn't mean we should ignore that it's harder for certain people to make the "right" choice. It also doesn't mean we shouldn't give them support and assistance to make the right choice.

joel_perl_prog 12y ago
I think it's both. I see both happening. I see major attitudes of helplessness or victim mentality. Or just ambivalence. Go to any mall. We all know this story. But also, it then becomes a thing where those who do have their head in the right place to pursue health in a practical and beneficiary (edit: beneficial) manner, these folks often do turn around and moralize. It's too bad. The real truth is, we need to forget about those types of things, for a little while at least, and concentrate purely on the facts. The consequences. What is actually occurring. Because in the end, it doesn't matter what peoples' intentions are, or motives, or desires, or anything else. What matters are consequences. That said, of course it's incumbent upon anyone promoting health to offer a helping hand, only, and never anything else. Never any judgment. Because not one of us is "above it."

FLUX-YOU 12y ago

>Accepting and acknowledging that you are 100% accountable as to what and how much you eat is a necessary first step to avoiding that end state. You are technically correct, except in the case of children who were raised with terrible eating habits and found themselves with the same habits and damage in adulthood. In my (terribly uninformed) opinion, I think this is more common than we give it credit, and the behavioral effects of several years or more of terrible eating is more powerful and controlling than we give it credit. The statement "You are 100% accountable" is very good for empowering individuals to change, but it is commonly confused as something intended to shame.

marcosdumay 12y ago
If you want to improve, you'd better take accountability. Looking for places where to put blame is useless in situations where there isn't moral hazard, or where you are unable to punish the blamed. On those cases, you're left with the choice of accepting your part of the problem and correcting it, or keep suffering.

VLM 12y ago

Experience with the root cause of stomach ulcers and mental illness would seem to indicate the philosophical moral arguments about "weakness" and "accountability" eventually end up sounding obsolete, regretted, and medieval. "if you eat without consideration and control" the battle is you vs an entire army of PR people and biochemists focused on defeating you for profit. My betting money is on the army. The moral and ethical failure is creating a civilization designed to kill in exchange for a few making high profits, its not a moral or ethical failure for some wanna-be Rambo's getting wiped out by the combined arms attack of an entire army. Or, a "hate the game not the players" argument.

jusben1369 12y ago

This argument can really be filed under the "I want to wash my hands of the whole affair by stating fat people simply should eat less and it's all their fault" Obesity rates have soared. Inquisitive minds want to know what is driving that change? It appears to be more than simply "oh a whole new generation just doesn't have the will power of people as recently as 20 or 25 years ago" As this article points out people who are trying to lose weight and following the advice of 'experts' may have been doing the wrong thing Staying hungry eating grain bread, pastas and fruit and not satiating themselves with enough fats or proteins. Jump in and join the discussion don't try and dismiss it with a disdainful wave of the hand.

DanBC 12y ago
The reason that Americans are fat include never walking anywhere but always using their cars; and drinking huge amounts of sugared water. http://imgur.com/9Xa92tr http://imgur.com/9Xa92tr http://imgur.com/mUJsbPu http://imgur.com/mUJsbPu http://imgur.com/GxgrGWg http://imgur.com/GxgrGWg Experts have never said "eat bread" or "eat pasta" to people dieting. Are you mistaking "expert advice" for "populist nonsense"? You wouldn't be alone. Every single HN thread about nutrition contains fucking awful pseudo-scientific nonsense supported by anecdote with no actual science anywhere.
- rdtsc 12y ago
  Given how little calories exercise burn per hour or per mile and I don't see blame on walking or not being a big factor. It surely is in the popular culture. Most importantly this idea is dangerous because it is used often in the PR campaigns of processed food manufacturers. "Drink the 1L soda bottle, it is ok, because then you can walk around the block to burn it off!" kind of idea.
  - bjlorenzen 12y ago
    The act of walking itself doesn't burn very many calories, no, but it does strengthen your legs (the largest muscles in your body) which then burn more calories 24/7.