6 ms·

Tado Cooling – Intelligent AC control

38 points by macrosak 12y ago

StavrosK 12y ago
That's a very nice idea for an Arduino project. I already have an Arduino hooked up to my home server that can sense motion/light/temperature, so it should be easy to set it up to remotely control the AC as well.
davidcollantes 12y ago
Isn't this what Nest does as well?
- klinquist 12y ago
  This is for those with window or portable A/C units that are controlled with an infrared remote. Nest is for those with central air.
joosters 12y ago
< 60MB per month upload, < 5MB per month download 1) Seems like a lot of data, what exactly is it communicating and to whom? What are the privacy policies? 2) What happens if/when the company stops running its servers? Does the device continue to work or will it become junk?
- mey 12y ago
  Rough numbers may a general guideline to CYA, but to your privacy and second point. What data is gathered, stored, for how long and shared with who? What are your options if the system goes offline? I have a Nest Thermostat that I bought before Google acquired Nest, which raises another general issue of your device having an evolving T&C to use.
- mcpherrinm 12y ago
  60 megabytes is a number that jumped out at me right away: It's about the upper bound of 1 packet per minute at the standard 1500 byte ethernet MTU. That's about the right amount of data to do an HTTP POST home every minute with the basic temperature, humidity, what its internal IP address etc is. Which seems completely reasonable to me. 5 megs is reasonable for your acks and occasional commands. I don't think there's anything suspicious about those numbers -- I'd probably have provided similar ones if I was designing this system.
lesingerouge 12y ago
Just for fun I once thought about using my Lego Next kit to build a bluetooth controlled robotic finger to operate my AC remote. So sorry I never got to it.
chillingeffect 12y ago
I wonder where they got the name Tado? It's quite similar to the name Taco, which is an 80+ year-old American HVAC company [0]. I hope they don't get in trouble in the U.S.! Other than that, great idea! http://www.taco-hvac.com/whoweare.html http://www.taco-hvac.com/whoweare.html
- macrosak 12y ago
  http://www.tado.com/de-en/blog/tadayimaor-how-we-chose-our-company-name-26 http://www.tado.com/de-en/blog/tadayimaor-how-we-chose-our-c... "The name tado° is derived from the Japanese greetings 'tadaima' and 'okaeri'. Loosely translated, they mean 'I am home' and 'welcome home'."
  - Navarr 12y ago
    Would also imply that it's pronounced "tah-doh"
robomartin 12y ago
Unlike Nest, which I've always seen as a gimmick sold on false advertising, I believe this has legs. Making these kinds of air conditioning units into intelligent devices could have significant effects. Why do think I Nest is a gimmick almost bordering on a marketing scam? Because in only works in a relatively narrow range of applications (i.e.: small one or two room apartment). In a larger family home --and particularly a two story home-- it is worthless. You could save money with a cheap programmable thermostat. In order to really save money in such settings you need a zone system with one thermostat/sensor per zone, a multiple stage compressor (or multiple condensing units), a variable speed air handler, a high efficiency HEPA filter, attic exhaust fans and, ideally, a filtered outside air bypass system to take advantage of cool night air. I am in the middle of renovating my home and have done all the research. Nest is a waste of time and money. You'd save far more money --FAR MORE-- buying a relatively cheap whole house fan to cool the house down at night (at least in my region). But, hey, everyone believes that technology is magical. Damn the math and physics. Hence the hype and sales. Automating window units is a different game. These are devoted mostly to cooling single rooms. So now you have the equicalent of a highly granular zone system. If you have a home or office with several of these units an intelligent control system could, depending on traffic patterns and the daily flow of people in and out of the various spaces, have a big impact. This is different. EDIT: I see the cargo-cult HN down-voting got started right away. You can't say anything bad about Apple, Tesla, Nest and others on HN. Of course, they never back-up their downvote because it's purely emotionally driven. So, here's the challenge: If you think I am wrong about Nest tell me why and back it up. The comparison is between Nest and a cheap programmable thermostat. People's lives are reasonably regular and heat cycles in the summer are too. If you are intent on saving money a programmable thermostat will do wonders. I've been experimenting with this for three years knowing that we would have to redo our cooling and heating system in 2014/15. I've gone two full summers without running the air conditioner but for two weeks by rigging and intelligent $200 fan (meaning, I hooked it up to a $5 timer) to exchange air out of the house when outside air was cooler than inside. That move alone represented a savings of around $500 PER MONTH. See my point?
- cauterize 12y ago
  Nest is 250$ USD, tado is 150$ USD. Nest allows controlling multiple thermostats from the app, I couldn't find if tado did the same. Thus, your conclusion that Nest is a "waste of time and money" is fruitless. However, the geolocation support does seem quite nice. The bar has been raised once again.
legulere 12y ago
Strange thing to come from a company from Munich, as AC is barely used there.
- ccozan 12y ago
  Mind you, if you look closely on their website, it works with gas heating - which most of the houses here use. I personally have a Buderus ( although fully automated - but quite inflexible) and I'd really like to try it. 300 Euro doesn't seem to much, considering that it can do savings on the same level per year. EDIT: the central Munich is heated with the SWM's powerplants. But around Munich there is a huge amount of houses which just fit this device.
  - lmb 12y ago
    Be careful: these are two distinct devices. One works with gas heating, the other with HVACs.
uptown 12y ago
ConEdison in NYC will give you a device like this for free, and pay you $25 after installation if you sign up. http://www.coned.com/energyefficiency/residential_directloadcontrol_program.asp http://www.coned.com/energyefficiency/residential_directload...
- iamjs 12y ago
  It looks like a central A/C system is a requirement for this program, so if you use window units, you will not be eligible.
  - uptown 12y ago
    Sorry - guess I linked the wrong program. Here's the ThinkEco program. Works on window-based AC units. https://www.coolnycprogram.com/ https://www.coolnycprogram.com/
dmritard96 12y ago
all the IR stuff is done if you want it Tado. :D or at least a start allows record and playback of IR codes as well as search of LIRC also, if you are building an IR database, would you consider sharing the IR codes with the community? after all, I'm sure Ken Sheriffs library and arduino are open tools that are likely helping you quite a lot in the early stages... https://github.com/dandroid88/webmote https://github.com/dandroid88/webmote
theg2 12y ago
I was thinking about it until they decided to charge MORE for the developer edition. As there isn't a Windows (Phone or otherwise) version out there I couldn't use it. Yes, I know, I run a Windows Phone and don't own Android or iOS devices but companies should at least give people the ability without pay walling it.
- lmb 12y ago
  Kinda like the Occulus, which are also charging more for the DevKit. Why do you think it should be cheaper? It's not like they have an app store they want to promote.
thelucky41 12y ago
According to Thingsquare, Tado is using their firmware [1], Mist, based off of the open source Contiki [2]. This is pretty cool, as it enables a ton of features like over the air firmware updates or running your own applications. I'm especially curious how they added bluetooth and ibeacon support into this. [1] http://thingsquare.com/customers/ http://thingsquare.com/customers/ [2] http://www.contiki-os.org/ http://www.contiki-os.org/

38 points by macrosak 12y ago

That's a very nice idea for an Arduino project. I already have an Arduino hooked up to my home server that can sense motion/light/temperature, so it should be easy to set it up to remotely control the AC as well.

davidcollantes 12y ago

Isn't this what Nest does as well?

klinquist 12y ago
This is for those with window or portable A/C units that are controlled with an infrared remote. Nest is for those with central air.

joosters 12y ago

< 60MB per month upload, < 5MB per month download 1) Seems like a lot of data, what exactly is it communicating and to whom? What are the privacy policies? 2) What happens if/when the company stops running its servers? Does the device continue to work or will it become junk?

mey 12y ago
Rough numbers may a general guideline to CYA, but to your privacy and second point. What data is gathered, stored, for how long and shared with who? What are your options if the system goes offline? I have a Nest Thermostat that I bought before Google acquired Nest, which raises another general issue of your device having an evolving T&C to use.
mcpherrinm 12y ago
60 megabytes is a number that jumped out at me right away: It's about the upper bound of 1 packet per minute at the standard 1500 byte ethernet MTU. That's about the right amount of data to do an HTTP POST home every minute with the basic temperature, humidity, what its internal IP address etc is. Which seems completely reasonable to me. 5 megs is reasonable for your acks and occasional commands. I don't think there's anything suspicious about those numbers -- I'd probably have provided similar ones if I was designing this system.

lesingerouge 12y ago

Just for fun I once thought about using my Lego Next kit to build a bluetooth controlled robotic finger to operate my AC remote. So sorry I never got to it.

chillingeffect 12y ago

I wonder where they got the name Tado? It's quite similar to the name Taco, which is an 80+ year-old American HVAC company [0]. I hope they don't get in trouble in the U.S.! Other than that, great idea! http://www.taco-hvac.com/whoweare.html http://www.taco-hvac.com/whoweare.html

macrosak 12y ago
http://www.tado.com/de-en/blog/tadayimaor-how-we-chose-our-company-name-26 http://www.tado.com/de-en/blog/tadayimaor-how-we-chose-our-c... "The name tado° is derived from the Japanese greetings 'tadaima' and 'okaeri'. Loosely translated, they mean 'I am home' and 'welcome home'."
- Navarr 12y ago
  Would also imply that it's pronounced "tah-doh"

robomartin 12y ago

Unlike Nest, which I've always seen as a gimmick sold on false advertising, I believe this has legs. Making these kinds of air conditioning units into intelligent devices could have significant effects. Why do think I Nest is a gimmick almost bordering on a marketing scam? Because in only works in a relatively narrow range of applications (i.e.: small one or two room apartment). In a larger family home --and particularly a two story home-- it is worthless. You could save money with a cheap programmable thermostat. In order to really save money in such settings you need a zone system with one thermostat/sensor per zone, a multiple stage compressor (or multiple condensing units), a variable speed air handler, a high efficiency HEPA filter, attic exhaust fans and, ideally, a filtered outside air bypass system to take advantage of cool night air. I am in the middle of renovating my home and have done all the research. Nest is a waste of time and money. You'd save far more money --FAR MORE-- buying a relatively cheap whole house fan to cool the house down at night (at least in my region). But, hey, everyone believes that technology is magical. Damn the math and physics. Hence the hype and sales. Automating window units is a different game. These are devoted mostly to cooling single rooms. So now you have the equicalent of a highly granular zone system. If you have a home or office with several of these units an intelligent control system could, depending on traffic patterns and the daily flow of people in and out of the various spaces, have a big impact. This is different. EDIT: I see the cargo-cult HN down-voting got started right away. You can't say anything bad about Apple, Tesla, Nest and others on HN. Of course, they never back-up their downvote because it's purely emotionally driven. So, here's the challenge: If you think I am wrong about Nest tell me why and back it up. The comparison is between Nest and a cheap programmable thermostat. People's lives are reasonably regular and heat cycles in the summer are too. If you are intent on saving money a programmable thermostat will do wonders. I've been experimenting with this for three years knowing that we would have to redo our cooling and heating system in 2014/15. I've gone two full summers without running the air conditioner but for two weeks by rigging and intelligent $200 fan (meaning, I hooked it up to a $5 timer) to exchange air out of the house when outside air was cooler than inside. That move alone represented a savings of around $500 PER MONTH. See my point?

cauterize 12y ago
Nest is 250$ USD, tado is 150$ USD. Nest allows controlling multiple thermostats from the app, I couldn't find if tado did the same. Thus, your conclusion that Nest is a "waste of time and money" is fruitless. However, the geolocation support does seem quite nice. The bar has been raised once again.

legulere 12y ago

Strange thing to come from a company from Munich, as AC is barely used there.

ccozan 12y ago
Mind you, if you look closely on their website, it works with gas heating - which most of the houses here use. I personally have a Buderus ( although fully automated - but quite inflexible) and I'd really like to try it. 300 Euro doesn't seem to much, considering that it can do savings on the same level per year. EDIT: the central Munich is heated with the SWM's powerplants. But around Munich there is a huge amount of houses which just fit this device.
- lmb 12y ago
  Be careful: these are two distinct devices. One works with gas heating, the other with HVACs.

uptown 12y ago

ConEdison in NYC will give you a device like this for free, and pay you $25 after installation if you sign up. http://www.coned.com/energyefficiency/residential_directloadcontrol_program.asp http://www.coned.com/energyefficiency/residential_directload...

iamjs 12y ago
It looks like a central A/C system is a requirement for this program, so if you use window units, you will not be eligible.
- uptown 12y ago
  Sorry - guess I linked the wrong program. Here's the ThinkEco program. Works on window-based AC units. https://www.coolnycprogram.com/ https://www.coolnycprogram.com/

dmritard96 12y ago

all the IR stuff is done if you want it Tado. :D or at least a start allows record and playback of IR codes as well as search of LIRC also, if you are building an IR database, would you consider sharing the IR codes with the community? after all, I'm sure Ken Sheriffs library and arduino are open tools that are likely helping you quite a lot in the early stages... https://github.com/dandroid88/webmote https://github.com/dandroid88/webmote

theg2 12y ago

I was thinking about it until they decided to charge MORE for the developer edition. As there isn't a Windows (Phone or otherwise) version out there I couldn't use it. Yes, I know, I run a Windows Phone and don't own Android or iOS devices but companies should at least give people the ability without pay walling it.

lmb 12y ago
Kinda like the Occulus, which are also charging more for the DevKit. Why do you think it should be cheaper? It's not like they have an app store they want to promote.

thelucky41 12y ago

According to Thingsquare, Tado is using their firmware [1], Mist, based off of the open source Contiki [2]. This is pretty cool, as it enables a ton of features like over the air firmware updates or running your own applications. I'm especially curious how they added bluetooth and ibeacon support into this. [1] http://thingsquare.com/customers/ http://thingsquare.com/customers/ [2] http://www.contiki-os.org/ http://www.contiki-os.org/