7 ms·

Keepod: Can a $7 stick provide billions computer access?

34 points by almost 12y ago

keithpeter 12y ago
Maybe Shuttleworth is right. In a few years time we will have cheap smartphones available with an OS that allows docking to a monitor/keyboard unit with automatic switching of UI. Cloud + local storage. SIM card in the device rather than a myfi like the school project shown here.
- noir_lord 12y ago
  I think it's pretty much a given that we will be able to pack enough computing power into a phone to make it useful for average day to day internet/office tasks (arguably we are already there). Whether that platform will be built out of a phone I don't know but it's probably likely as economies of scale on phone production do drive down the price of the hardware. It's not going to replace a computer for everyone though (I like my three screens too much for that) but I could see the utility.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago
    I wonder if the end of Moore's law will make it happen. If the difference between phone CPUs and laptop CPUs narrows enough, there'd be no reason not to use such a device.
- joezydeco 12y ago
  Years ago we thought Apple was headed in this direction as well. There were rumors of "The Brick", which would be a phone-type device that would slot into a larger monitor and transform from a handheld into a PC, taking your same experience everywhere. Turns out "The Brick" was just the singular aluminum ingot that the iMac is carved from.
  - Someone 12y ago
    At the time, I thought the thing you plug in would solely be an identification token + cache. That would give us what Jobs said he had had for himself for years, in _1997_. See http://dcurt.is/steve-jobs-and-the-cloud http://dcurt.is/steve-jobs-and-the-cloud
    - joezydeco 12y ago
      Isn't that pretty much what a Chromebook is, now? =)
- vdm 12y ago
  2005 http://philip.greenspun.com/business/mobile-phone-as-home-computer http://philip.greenspun.com/business/mobile-phone-as-home-co...
trurl42 12y ago
So this time it's based on Android? That seems like a bad choice if you wanted to provide the people with access to true general purpose computing.
- TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago
  The desktop reminds me of Chrome OS. Maybe they should have gone with Chromium OS.
  - pronoiac 12y ago
    That's a network-centric OS? But won't they typically be used in bandwidth-constrained places? I was going to worry about how much memory was required, but it looks like Android 4.4 can work with 512 meg of RAM.
    - TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago
      Well, Android is similarly network-centric.
TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago
It's just a bootable USB drive? So, all they need now is to find a computer which boots from USB drives (i.e. fairly recent, relatively)? How does this solve the problem?
- Edd314159 12y ago
  It solves the problem of each user not having a consistent user experience on a shared computer. I know, it's not exactly solving the right problem, is it? Also, I'm not sure how comfortable I'd be with storing all my data on a flimsy, easily-misplaced USB drive.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago
    Especially since they seem to be saying it'll work on any 8GB drive. However, any of us who have used very cheap USB drives (the sort you might get at a conference and the sort these people would get) will know they are about as reliable as floppy disks.
- rm445 12y ago
  It solves a problem, if the only computers you can use: - are slow and virus-ridden. - don't belong to you, and you have shared or sporadic access (not a good place to leave your files). - don't have the software you want, and you can't install programs (or do much else) 'in case you break it'. There's not ONE overriding problem to be solved, this is just one way for people using shared computers to get their own secure and consistent environment. Plenty of people (in Western countries) carry around USB sticks with their files and some portable apps; this is just a logical step further.
DanBC 12y ago
> will allow old, discarded and potentially non-functional PCs to be revived, While this feels like a good idea it's often terrible. Have a look at the agbogoshie e-waste dump in Accra, Ghana, for an example. (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5552994 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5552994) http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2013/dec/14/toxic-ewaste-illegal-dumping-developing-countries http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2013/dec/14/to... Keepod has been discussed here before. It looks like an interesting experiment, although I would prefer it if people had access to more open systems.
kristopolous 12y ago
Why is it a for-profit operation with a 30% profit margin? Are they trying to become rich through people's charitable contributions? Why does every student as opposed to just every classroom need one (with multiple accounts supported)? And why is the base price $5? Flashing is $.32 (http://www.usb2usb.com/pre-loaded-data-usb-flash-drive.htm http://www.usb2usb.com/pre-loaded-data-usb-flash-drive.htm) on a $3.41 drive (http://www.usb2usb.com/marketing_series_flash_drive_costs.htm http://www.usb2usb.com/marketing_series_flash_drive_costs.ht...) = $3.73* ... that's $1.27 less then $5. This doesn't sound like much until you are doing 150,000 of them. Now we have $190,500 that's not accounted for on top of the existing $300,000 deposited into their personal checking account. Someone can do this same project for 40% less (at $4 versus $7) and still walk away with $40k+ - a much more typical salary for a social worker. Or they could do a multiple-account, single device strategy and probably get away with an astonishing 98% drop in price. Of course, there's no money in that. ;-) * - We can't see the price for 7500+ from this vendor - but I think that a cost of about $3.55 is fair for the volumes the founders are talking about - and there's probably better offers if you call around - so maybe $3.45 is more realistic. It's certainly not $5.00.
- DanBC 12y ago
  The hardware costs $x. Then there is flashing the software. And creating the software. And creating documentation. And distributing the devices. And providing support. They're not just selling a USB stick, nor selling a USB stick that has a bit of software on it. They are possibly testing the devices on a range of older hardware, and distributing that older hardware too. I think this is a pivot - didn't they used to aim this at people worried about security?
  - kristopolous 12y ago
    The flashing is $.32 per device ... it's accounted for above The software is Android, it's maintained by Google and already exists - as does the documentation. The distribution of the USB stick, as the article states, is through http://www.liveinslums.org/ http://www.liveinslums.org/. The duo also are explicitly not distributing the older hardware - although I guess they could be testing it. They surely have added some software to an existing Android ISO. Was that their personal investment? No. People gave them $40,000 to do that through indiegogo. The $90 donation point was a 200% markup from the base price (which I believe is 40% inflated) - They were paid a disclosed $28,000 (probably closer to $32,500) to make the product. That's 3 months on a handsome 6-figure salary to write essentially a few shell scripts. Now they have a for-profit android-based distro that They Are Selling to impoverished African children which was built through donations. They will pitch it as "We need your money to help the children" (and, ahem, our pocket books). Also, they want to sell a separate USB device for each child as opposed to 1 which supports multiple accounts for a single classroom (or more likely, single school). So they sell 80 to a school where 2 would do fine. Why? I'm guessing it has to do with the "for-profit" part. It's more profitable for them if each kid has to manually reboot the computer and switch the USB stick then it is to just switch accounts. How is this not just a clever scam?
higherpurpose 12y ago
I wish Google would do something about Android in "desktop mode". But I don't expect things to change as long as former ChromeOS boss is running the Android division. Unless Google and its partners plan to release $7 ChromeSticks, then they should at least make the open source Android be usable on desktops, with a more optimized interface for it.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
mark_l_watson 12y ago
At least it is a good idea; time will tell how well it will help people. It would add to the cost, but customization per geographic region would be good: farmer almanac type information, etc. If children could demonstrate to their parents some utility then the parents would be less likely to sell the devices for food, etc.
neil1 12y ago
I still can't wrap my head around, why they used Android 4.4 instead of just using linux, this does not seem like a new paradigm, just a minor "innovation".
- tygorius 12y ago
  1) Android is a Linux, it's just not marketed as such: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_%28operating_system%29#Linux_kernel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_%28operating_system%29#... 2) If you're someone like me who drops in to distrowatch.com occasionally, you might think a tweaked version of Puppy or Tiny Core would be more appropriate for older computers. And you'd be right in terms of hardware requirements, but... 3) Android is supported by Skynet, er, Google with massive resources. The installed base in the US is north of 80M and it has support for 47 languages. So it's really the answer to that classic question, "what's the simplest thing that could possibly work?" If I were in the project manager's shoes Android would be at the top of my list as well.
mapt 12y ago
This is essentially a plan to get local resellers to distribute an Edubuntu-like Android OS on bootable thumb drives.

34 points by almost 12y ago

Maybe Shuttleworth is right. In a few years time we will have cheap smartphones available with an OS that allows docking to a monitor/keyboard unit with automatic switching of UI. Cloud + local storage. SIM card in the device rather than a myfi like the school project shown here.

noir_lord 12y ago
I think it's pretty much a given that we will be able to pack enough computing power into a phone to make it useful for average day to day internet/office tasks (arguably we are already there). Whether that platform will be built out of a phone I don't know but it's probably likely as economies of scale on phone production do drive down the price of the hardware. It's not going to replace a computer for everyone though (I like my three screens too much for that) but I could see the utility.
- TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago
  I wonder if the end of Moore's law will make it happen. If the difference between phone CPUs and laptop CPUs narrows enough, there'd be no reason not to use such a device.
joezydeco 12y ago
Years ago we thought Apple was headed in this direction as well. There were rumors of "The Brick", which would be a phone-type device that would slot into a larger monitor and transform from a handheld into a PC, taking your same experience everywhere. Turns out "The Brick" was just the singular aluminum ingot that the iMac is carved from.
- Someone 12y ago
  At the time, I thought the thing you plug in would solely be an identification token + cache. That would give us what Jobs said he had had for himself for years, in _1997_. See http://dcurt.is/steve-jobs-and-the-cloud http://dcurt.is/steve-jobs-and-the-cloud
  - joezydeco 12y ago
    Isn't that pretty much what a Chromebook is, now? =)
vdm 12y ago
2005 http://philip.greenspun.com/business/mobile-phone-as-home-computer http://philip.greenspun.com/business/mobile-phone-as-home-co...

trurl42 12y ago

So this time it's based on Android? That seems like a bad choice if you wanted to provide the people with access to true general purpose computing.

TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago
The desktop reminds me of Chrome OS. Maybe they should have gone with Chromium OS.
- pronoiac 12y ago
  That's a network-centric OS? But won't they typically be used in bandwidth-constrained places? I was going to worry about how much memory was required, but it looks like Android 4.4 can work with 512 meg of RAM.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago
    Well, Android is similarly network-centric.

TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago

It's just a bootable USB drive? So, all they need now is to find a computer which boots from USB drives (i.e. fairly recent, relatively)? How does this solve the problem?

Edd314159 12y ago
It solves the problem of each user not having a consistent user experience on a shared computer. I know, it's not exactly solving the right problem, is it? Also, I'm not sure how comfortable I'd be with storing all my data on a flimsy, easily-misplaced USB drive.
- TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago
  Especially since they seem to be saying it'll work on any 8GB drive. However, any of us who have used very cheap USB drives (the sort you might get at a conference and the sort these people would get) will know they are about as reliable as floppy disks.
rm445 12y ago
It solves a problem, if the only computers you can use: - are slow and virus-ridden. - don't belong to you, and you have shared or sporadic access (not a good place to leave your files). - don't have the software you want, and you can't install programs (or do much else) 'in case you break it'. There's not ONE overriding problem to be solved, this is just one way for people using shared computers to get their own secure and consistent environment. Plenty of people (in Western countries) carry around USB sticks with their files and some portable apps; this is just a logical step further.

DanBC 12y ago

> will allow old, discarded and potentially non-functional PCs to be revived, While this feels like a good idea it's often terrible. Have a look at the agbogoshie e-waste dump in Accra, Ghana, for an example. (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5552994 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5552994) http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2013/dec/14/toxic-ewaste-illegal-dumping-developing-countries http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2013/dec/14/to... Keepod has been discussed here before. It looks like an interesting experiment, although I would prefer it if people had access to more open systems.

kristopolous 12y ago

Why is it a for-profit operation with a 30% profit margin? Are they trying to become rich through people's charitable contributions? Why does every student as opposed to just every classroom need one (with multiple accounts supported)? And why is the base price $5? Flashing is $.32 (http://www.usb2usb.com/pre-loaded-data-usb-flash-drive.htm http://www.usb2usb.com/pre-loaded-data-usb-flash-drive.htm) on a $3.41 drive (http://www.usb2usb.com/marketing_series_flash_drive_costs.htm http://www.usb2usb.com/marketing_series_flash_drive_costs.ht...) = $3.73* ... that's $1.27 less then $5. This doesn't sound like much until you are doing 150,000 of them. Now we have $190,500 that's not accounted for on top of the existing $300,000 deposited into their personal checking account. Someone can do this same project for 40% less (at $4 versus $7) and still walk away with $40k+ - a much more typical salary for a social worker. Or they could do a multiple-account, single device strategy and probably get away with an astonishing 98% drop in price. Of course, there's no money in that. ;-) * - We can't see the price for 7500+ from this vendor - but I think that a cost of about $3.55 is fair for the volumes the founders are talking about - and there's probably better offers if you call around - so maybe $3.45 is more realistic. It's certainly not $5.00.

DanBC 12y ago
The hardware costs $x. Then there is flashing the software. And creating the software. And creating documentation. And distributing the devices. And providing support. They're not just selling a USB stick, nor selling a USB stick that has a bit of software on it. They are possibly testing the devices on a range of older hardware, and distributing that older hardware too. I think this is a pivot - didn't they used to aim this at people worried about security?
- kristopolous 12y ago
  The flashing is $.32 per device ... it's accounted for above The software is Android, it's maintained by Google and already exists - as does the documentation. The distribution of the USB stick, as the article states, is through http://www.liveinslums.org/ http://www.liveinslums.org/. The duo also are explicitly not distributing the older hardware - although I guess they could be testing it. They surely have added some software to an existing Android ISO. Was that their personal investment? No. People gave them $40,000 to do that through indiegogo. The $90 donation point was a 200% markup from the base price (which I believe is 40% inflated) - They were paid a disclosed $28,000 (probably closer to $32,500) to make the product. That's 3 months on a handsome 6-figure salary to write essentially a few shell scripts. Now they have a for-profit android-based distro that They Are Selling to impoverished African children which was built through donations. They will pitch it as "We need your money to help the children" (and, ahem, our pocket books). Also, they want to sell a separate USB device for each child as opposed to 1 which supports multiple accounts for a single classroom (or more likely, single school). So they sell 80 to a school where 2 would do fine. Why? I'm guessing it has to do with the "for-profit" part. It's more profitable for them if each kid has to manually reboot the computer and switch the USB stick then it is to just switch accounts. How is this not just a clever scam?

higherpurpose 12y ago

I wish Google would do something about Android in "desktop mode". But I don't expect things to change as long as former ChromeOS boss is running the Android division. Unless Google and its partners plan to release $7 ChromeSticks, then they should at least make the open source Android be usable on desktops, with a more optimized interface for it.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

mark_l_watson 12y ago

At least it is a good idea; time will tell how well it will help people. It would add to the cost, but customization per geographic region would be good: farmer almanac type information, etc. If children could demonstrate to their parents some utility then the parents would be less likely to sell the devices for food, etc.

neil1 12y ago

I still can't wrap my head around, why they used Android 4.4 instead of just using linux, this does not seem like a new paradigm, just a minor "innovation".

tygorius 12y ago
1) Android is a Linux, it's just not marketed as such: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_%28operating_system%29#Linux_kernel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_%28operating_system%29#... 2) If you're someone like me who drops in to distrowatch.com occasionally, you might think a tweaked version of Puppy or Tiny Core would be more appropriate for older computers. And you'd be right in terms of hardware requirements, but... 3) Android is supported by Skynet, er, Google with massive resources. The installed base in the US is north of 80M and it has support for 47 languages. So it's really the answer to that classic question, "what's the simplest thing that could possibly work?" If I were in the project manager's shoes Android would be at the top of my list as well.

mapt 12y ago

This is essentially a plan to get local resellers to distribute an Edubuntu-like Android OS on bootable thumb drives.