6 ms·

What a deplorable, luddite attitude. The black taxis should be banned for some period of time for this behavior. "The Licensed Taxi Drivers Association compla

What a deplorable, luddite attitude. The black taxis should be banned for some period of time for this behavior. "The Licensed Taxi Drivers Association complains that Uber's drivers are using a smartphone app to calculate fares despite it being illegal for private vehicles to be fitted with taximeters." So using this website in your car is illegal?! http://www.worldtaximeter.com/ http://www.worldtaximeter.com/

corin_ 12y ago
If that law is correct then it seems they have a perfectly valid complaint, using an app on your phone instead of a dedicated device is just circumventing the spirit of the law. Whether the law should still exist, and whether this method of protest is appropriate, are other questions of course.
- nakedrobot2 12y ago
  "private vehicles to be fitted with taximeters" You can measure the distance on a paper map as well. The smartphone app is only slightly more convenient. I do not think they are breaking the spirit of the law.
  - rcxdude 12y ago
    Well, if you do so with the intent of charging a passenger for distance traveled, yeah. The taxi industry is heavily regulated, and circumventing those regulations is extremely questionable. Certainly it does not seem to be a fair market.
- barnabee 12y ago
  Transport For London (the governing body) have set it is not illegal as the law only covers meters that are mechanically attached to the car not an app that uses information about location/time/distance. So they're complaining that they'd like the law to be different so that Uber could be temporarily banned until they code a workaround. Pointless.
fennecfoxen 12y ago
Also, causing gridlock and disrupting the commute is not the best way to make friends and influence people. Unless you have a really clear moral outrage, people will get pretty upset at you as well as those you have a problem with. (If it were otherwise the transit unions would have a much easier time of things.) "illegal to install taximeters" isn't going to resonate with the public, I think. It's hardly the abuse and exploitation by an monstrous and inhuman Management that kick-started unionization in the first place, anyway.
- oneeyedpigeon 12y ago
  What would probably resonate is the 'no tax paid in the UK' argument - that's something that everyone can understand as a negative.
  - alandarev 12y ago
    Oh god, you have reminded me of a 'No tax paid' by Google/Amazon/Starbucks scandal last year. [1] Yes, definitely, the Tax card is enormously effective in UK. I wish the legacy businesses would rather change themselves, seeing how ineffective they are, instead of spending resources on fighting innovation. [1] - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20560359 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20560359
- rmc 12y ago
  "This taxi driver could be a criminal and/or scam you in the fare" might resonate with people. It might also tap into latent racism about immigrants driving around with the same level of licencing.
  - barnabee 12y ago
    Uber drivers still have to be licensed minicab drivers in London, there's just a difference between that and metered black cabs.
    - rmc 12y ago
nodata 12y ago
> What a deplorable, luddite attitude. Well presumably you know their side of the story too? Presumably (hopefully someone who actually knows can fill us in) the taxi drivers have spent huge amounts of time learning The Knowledge and buying their cars and keeping to the fairly strict regulations that exist, and don't find it fair that another company can offer a service without a level playing field. Presumably.
- rubiquity 12y ago
  Yes, but I think the taxi associations only have themselves to blame for all the ceremony required to become a taxi driver. I think a lot of these regulations were created by existing taxi companies to present barriers of entry to people wanting to form new taxi companies.
  - _delirium 12y ago
    Although I'm not an expert in the history of UK taxis, my impression is that a good number of the regulations were imposed by the government, due to complaints from the public about quality/maintenance/knowledgeability/numbers. That seems to have been the impetus for the original 1662 Act imposing a mandatory licensing requirement, at least: Londoners thought there were too many taxis clogging up the roads, and further were worried about reckless and otherwise un-vetted drivers. Even nowadays the requirement that London taxi drivers know how to get around London seems popular with the public; British tourists regularly complain about how drivers elsewhere can't even find major landmarks without a map, in a "glad it's not like that back home" sort of way. My guess is that the requirement would be confirmed if put to a referendum. Other requirements, such as the "cannot refuse a fare in central London" requirement, are also pretty popular.
    - rubiquity 12y ago
      Sorry, I guess I should say I wasn't speaking with any experience of taxis in London. My statement mostly applies to things I've read/heard about taxis in the US and Canada.
lmm 12y ago
You're either a minicab offering pre-booked journeys or you're a taxi with a meter. If Uber is claiming they're a pre-booked journey service rather than a taxi then yes, they shouldn't be using meters and that would be illegal. If you want to change the law then by all means write to your MP or whatever, but in the meantime the law as it is should be enforced, even against fashionable companies.
- ibmthrowaway218 12y ago
  In the absence of a pre-agreed/fixed price most minicab drivers will charge based on a combination of distance/time measured using the vehicles trip-meter/odometer and a clock. That's not much different to what the Uber app is doing in (surge multiplier excepted).
  - lmm 12y ago
    Minicabs in London are required to be pre-booked, otherwise they're breaking the law. I can't say I've used them a lot but when I have I've always been quoted a price when booking.
    - ibmthrowaway218 12y ago
      I rarely ever agree a price when booking a minicab in advance, but I use the same minicab firms I've used for a long time so I know they're unlikely to rip me off.
- Karunamon 12y ago
  > but in the meantime the law as it is should be enforced This attitude puzzles me greatly. Rule of law is a principle, not a dogmatic application of The Rules Über Alles. Crap laws should be ignored.
  - claudius 12y ago
    > Crap laws should be ignored. So who gets to decide which laws are “crap laws” and which laws are proper laws that should be obeyed? Last time I checked, this was usually not the job of some random startup firm but rather the responsibility of parliament. You can argue that sometimes it is appropriate to fight against specific laws by ignoring them if the cost of not doing so vastly outweights the cost of lowering the authority of the law. I don’t think taxi laws fall into that category – if the current laws required all drivers to be white, I could maybe understand fighting that law by disobedience, but otherwise?

corin_ 12y ago

If that law is correct then it seems they have a perfectly valid complaint, using an app on your phone instead of a dedicated device is just circumventing the spirit of the law. Whether the law should still exist, and whether this method of protest is appropriate, are other questions of course.

nakedrobot2 12y ago
"private vehicles to be fitted with taximeters" You can measure the distance on a paper map as well. The smartphone app is only slightly more convenient. I do not think they are breaking the spirit of the law.
- rcxdude 12y ago
  Well, if you do so with the intent of charging a passenger for distance traveled, yeah. The taxi industry is heavily regulated, and circumventing those regulations is extremely questionable. Certainly it does not seem to be a fair market.
barnabee 12y ago
Transport For London (the governing body) have set it is not illegal as the law only covers meters that are mechanically attached to the car not an app that uses information about location/time/distance. So they're complaining that they'd like the law to be different so that Uber could be temporarily banned until they code a workaround. Pointless.

fennecfoxen 12y ago

Also, causing gridlock and disrupting the commute is not the best way to make friends and influence people. Unless you have a really clear moral outrage, people will get pretty upset at you as well as those you have a problem with. (If it were otherwise the transit unions would have a much easier time of things.) "illegal to install taximeters" isn't going to resonate with the public, I think. It's hardly the abuse and exploitation by an monstrous and inhuman Management that kick-started unionization in the first place, anyway.

oneeyedpigeon 12y ago
What would probably resonate is the 'no tax paid in the UK' argument - that's something that everyone can understand as a negative.
- alandarev 12y ago
  Oh god, you have reminded me of a 'No tax paid' by Google/Amazon/Starbucks scandal last year. [1] Yes, definitely, the Tax card is enormously effective in UK. I wish the legacy businesses would rather change themselves, seeing how ineffective they are, instead of spending resources on fighting innovation. [1] - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20560359 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20560359
rmc 12y ago
"This taxi driver could be a criminal and/or scam you in the fare" might resonate with people. It might also tap into latent racism about immigrants driving around with the same level of licencing.
- barnabee 12y ago
  Uber drivers still have to be licensed minicab drivers in London, there's just a difference between that and metered black cabs.
  - rmc 12y ago

nodata 12y ago

> What a deplorable, luddite attitude. Well presumably you know their side of the story too? Presumably (hopefully someone who actually knows can fill us in) the taxi drivers have spent huge amounts of time learning The Knowledge and buying their cars and keeping to the fairly strict regulations that exist, and don't find it fair that another company can offer a service without a level playing field. Presumably.

rubiquity 12y ago
Yes, but I think the taxi associations only have themselves to blame for all the ceremony required to become a taxi driver. I think a lot of these regulations were created by existing taxi companies to present barriers of entry to people wanting to form new taxi companies.
- _delirium 12y ago
  Although I'm not an expert in the history of UK taxis, my impression is that a good number of the regulations were imposed by the government, due to complaints from the public about quality/maintenance/knowledgeability/numbers. That seems to have been the impetus for the original 1662 Act imposing a mandatory licensing requirement, at least: Londoners thought there were too many taxis clogging up the roads, and further were worried about reckless and otherwise un-vetted drivers. Even nowadays the requirement that London taxi drivers know how to get around London seems popular with the public; British tourists regularly complain about how drivers elsewhere can't even find major landmarks without a map, in a "glad it's not like that back home" sort of way. My guess is that the requirement would be confirmed if put to a referendum. Other requirements, such as the "cannot refuse a fare in central London" requirement, are also pretty popular.
  - rubiquity 12y ago
    Sorry, I guess I should say I wasn't speaking with any experience of taxis in London. My statement mostly applies to things I've read/heard about taxis in the US and Canada.

lmm 12y ago

You're either a minicab offering pre-booked journeys or you're a taxi with a meter. If Uber is claiming they're a pre-booked journey service rather than a taxi then yes, they shouldn't be using meters and that would be illegal. If you want to change the law then by all means write to your MP or whatever, but in the meantime the law as it is should be enforced, even against fashionable companies.

ibmthrowaway218 12y ago
In the absence of a pre-agreed/fixed price most minicab drivers will charge based on a combination of distance/time measured using the vehicles trip-meter/odometer and a clock. That's not much different to what the Uber app is doing in (surge multiplier excepted).
- lmm 12y ago
  Minicabs in London are required to be pre-booked, otherwise they're breaking the law. I can't say I've used them a lot but when I have I've always been quoted a price when booking.
  - ibmthrowaway218 12y ago
    I rarely ever agree a price when booking a minicab in advance, but I use the same minicab firms I've used for a long time so I know they're unlikely to rip me off.
Karunamon 12y ago
> but in the meantime the law as it is should be enforced This attitude puzzles me greatly. Rule of law is a principle, not a dogmatic application of The Rules Über Alles. Crap laws should be ignored.
- claudius 12y ago
  > Crap laws should be ignored. So who gets to decide which laws are “crap laws” and which laws are proper laws that should be obeyed? Last time I checked, this was usually not the job of some random startup firm but rather the responsibility of parliament. You can argue that sometimes it is appropriate to fight against specific laws by ignoring them if the cost of not doing so vastly outweights the cost of lowering the authority of the law. I don’t think taxi laws fall into that category – if the current laws required all drivers to be white, I could maybe understand fighting that law by disobedience, but otherwise?