11 ms·

London black taxis plan congestion chaos to block Uber

94 points by sp8 12y ago

nakedrobot2 12y ago
What a deplorable, luddite attitude. The black taxis should be banned for some period of time for this behavior. "The Licensed Taxi Drivers Association complains that Uber's drivers are using a smartphone app to calculate fares despite it being illegal for private vehicles to be fitted with taximeters." So using this website in your car is illegal?! http://www.worldtaximeter.com/ http://www.worldtaximeter.com/
- corin_ 12y ago
  If that law is correct then it seems they have a perfectly valid complaint, using an app on your phone instead of a dedicated device is just circumventing the spirit of the law. Whether the law should still exist, and whether this method of protest is appropriate, are other questions of course.
  - nakedrobot2 12y ago
    "private vehicles to be fitted with taximeters" You can measure the distance on a paper map as well. The smartphone app is only slightly more convenient. I do not think they are breaking the spirit of the law.
    - rcxdude 12y ago
      Well, if you do so with the intent of charging a passenger for distance traveled, yeah. The taxi industry is heavily regulated, and circumventing those regulations is extremely questionable. Certainly it does not seem to be a fair market.
  - barnabee 12y ago
    Transport For London (the governing body) have set it is not illegal as the law only covers meters that are mechanically attached to the car not an app that uses information about location/time/distance. So they're complaining that they'd like the law to be different so that Uber could be temporarily banned until they code a workaround. Pointless.
- fennecfoxen 12y ago
  Also, causing gridlock and disrupting the commute is not the best way to make friends and influence people. Unless you have a really clear moral outrage, people will get pretty upset at you as well as those you have a problem with. (If it were otherwise the transit unions would have a much easier time of things.) "illegal to install taximeters" isn't going to resonate with the public, I think. It's hardly the abuse and exploitation by an monstrous and inhuman Management that kick-started unionization in the first place, anyway.
  - oneeyedpigeon 12y ago
    What would probably resonate is the 'no tax paid in the UK' argument - that's something that everyone can understand as a negative.
    - alandarev 12y ago
      Oh god, you have reminded me of a 'No tax paid' by Google/Amazon/Starbucks scandal last year. [1] Yes, definitely, the Tax card is enormously effective in UK. I wish the legacy businesses would rather change themselves, seeing how ineffective they are, instead of spending resources on fighting innovation. [1] - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20560359 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20560359
  - rmc 12y ago
    "This taxi driver could be a criminal and/or scam you in the fare" might resonate with people. It might also tap into latent racism about immigrants driving around with the same level of licencing.
    - barnabee 12y ago
      Uber drivers still have to be licensed minicab drivers in London, there's just a difference between that and metered black cabs.
      - rmc 12y ago
- nodata 12y ago
  > What a deplorable, luddite attitude. Well presumably you know their side of the story too? Presumably (hopefully someone who actually knows can fill us in) the taxi drivers have spent huge amounts of time learning The Knowledge and buying their cars and keeping to the fairly strict regulations that exist, and don't find it fair that another company can offer a service without a level playing field. Presumably.
  - rubiquity 12y ago
    Yes, but I think the taxi associations only have themselves to blame for all the ceremony required to become a taxi driver. I think a lot of these regulations were created by existing taxi companies to present barriers of entry to people wanting to form new taxi companies.
    - _delirium 12y ago
      Although I'm not an expert in the history of UK taxis, my impression is that a good number of the regulations were imposed by the government, due to complaints from the public about quality/maintenance/knowledgeability/numbers. That seems to have been the impetus for the original 1662 Act imposing a mandatory licensing requirement, at least: Londoners thought there were too many taxis clogging up the roads, and further were worried about reckless and otherwise un-vetted drivers. Even nowadays the requirement that London taxi drivers know how to get around London seems popular with the public; British tourists regularly complain about how drivers elsewhere can't even find major landmarks without a map, in a "glad it's not like that back home" sort of way. My guess is that the requirement would be confirmed if put to a referendum. Other requirements, such as the "cannot refuse a fare in central London" requirement, are also pretty popular.
      - rubiquity 12y ago
        Sorry, I guess I should say I wasn't speaking with any experience of taxis in London. My statement mostly applies to things I've read/heard about taxis in the US and Canada.
- lmm 12y ago
  You're either a minicab offering pre-booked journeys or you're a taxi with a meter. If Uber is claiming they're a pre-booked journey service rather than a taxi then yes, they shouldn't be using meters and that would be illegal. If you want to change the law then by all means write to your MP or whatever, but in the meantime the law as it is should be enforced, even against fashionable companies.
  - ibmthrowaway218 12y ago
    In the absence of a pre-agreed/fixed price most minicab drivers will charge based on a combination of distance/time measured using the vehicles trip-meter/odometer and a clock. That's not much different to what the Uber app is doing in (surge multiplier excepted).
    - lmm 12y ago
      Minicabs in London are required to be pre-booked, otherwise they're breaking the law. I can't say I've used them a lot but when I have I've always been quoted a price when booking.
      - ibmthrowaway218 12y ago
        I rarely ever agree a price when booking a minicab in advance, but I use the same minicab firms I've used for a long time so I know they're unlikely to rip me off.
  - Karunamon 12y ago
    > but in the meantime the law as it is should be enforced This attitude puzzles me greatly. Rule of law is a principle, not a dogmatic application of The Rules Über Alles. Crap laws should be ignored.
    - claudius 12y ago
      > Crap laws should be ignored. So who gets to decide which laws are “crap laws” and which laws are proper laws that should be obeyed? Last time I checked, this was usually not the job of some random startup firm but rather the responsibility of parliament. You can argue that sometimes it is appropriate to fight against specific laws by ignoring them if the cost of not doing so vastly outweights the cost of lowering the authority of the law. I don’t think taxi laws fall into that category – if the current laws required all drivers to be white, I could maybe understand fighting that law by disobedience, but otherwise?
brianlweiner 12y ago
Ridiculous behavior. I'm glad the black taxis seem to have their customer's well-being at heart. "Uber, funded by Google, Goldman Sachs and others, has a stated aim of challenging legislation that is not compatible with its business model," said Mr McNamara. "This is not some philanthropic friendly society, it's an American monster that has no qualms about breaching any and all laws in the pursuit of profit, most of which will never see a penny of tax paid in the UK." Besides the ridiculous attempt to conflate Uber with evil bankers, it seems strange to suggest "most" of the profit will never be taxed in UK. Aren't all the UK drivers paying taxes?
- corin_ 12y ago
  > Besides the ridiculous attempt to conflate Uber with evil bankers, it seems strange to suggest "most" of the profit will never be taxed in UK. Aren't all the UK drivers paying taxes? They would, yes - but when any big company gets bad press for not paying taxes in the UK (for example Google), nobody uses the excuse "but their staff in the UK still pay UK tax", the focus is on whether the company's profits are being taxed.
  - k-mcgrady 12y ago
    >> "They would, yes - but when any big company gets bad press for not paying taxes in the UK (for example Google), nobody uses the excuse "but their staff in the UK still pay UK tax", the focus is on whether the company's profits are being taxed." Because the tax paid by employees is insignificant compared to the tax the company should be paying.
    - rwmj 12y ago
      Umm, citation needed. Salaries are usually at least 50% of a company's expenses, and UK tax on salaries will be 30-40% of that, so that's at least 15-20%, likely more.
      - corin_ 12y ago
        Citation needed for sure, but being a big % of expenses doesn't mean anything either way - salaries could be 100% of your expenses, and tax rates could be 90%, but if the company has revenue of 100x and expenditure of 10x then 90% of that 100% is still only 9x, which is the equivilent to a 10% tax on their 90x company profits. (Equally, salaries could be a small percentage of expenditure, but if the company makes only a small amount of net profit then tax on salaries could easily dwarf tax on the company's profits.)
6d0debc071 12y ago
I wonder how legal that is. 'If a person, without lawful authority or excuse, in any way wilfully obstructs the free passage along a highway he is guilty of an offence and liable to a fine not exceeding [F1 level 3 on the standard scale].' - Highways Act 1980 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/66/part/IX/crossheading/obstruction-of-highways-and-streets http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/66/part/IX/crosshea...
- crazypyro 12y ago
  This was my thought. Purposely blocking traffic is illegal and I hope everyone of these taxi drivers get fines. This is like a child throwing a fit when they don't get their way...
- oneeyedpigeon 12y ago
  How easy would that be to prove? At what point does a group of vehicles that happen to be driving down the same piece of road turn into a 'wilful obstruction'?
  - icebraining 12y ago
    When they announce it on the BBC beforehand?
- corin_ 12y ago
  There are ways to hold a protest/demonstration/march legally [1], though I've no idea a.) whether what they plan would fit what's allowed on that front b.) whether they have informed police etc. Could well be they're going down the "prove we're not just normal congestion" road. Edit: forgot the link. [1] https://www.gov.uk/protests-and-marches-letting-the-police-know https://www.gov.uk/protests-and-marches-letting-the-police-k...
- ibmthrowaway218 12y ago
  The right to protest is also enshrined in UK law (within a huge number of constraints). Other (one-off or infrequent) protests such as Critical Mass certainly obstruct free passage along the highway, but they are tolerated.
raldi 12y ago
Note that the rank-and-file taxi drivers aren't complaining; they'll all get a chance to become Uber drivers. It's the incumbent taxi organization that's upset, because it's about to become a lot less powerful.
- stuaxo 12y ago
  And we can all get a chance to swap our jobs for zero hours contracts, what a wonderful world.
  - raldi 12y ago
    Taxi drivers' pre-Uber work arrangements are even worse; by and large they seem to love switching from working for a taxi company to working as an Uber driver. For example: http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2014/01/15/with-ubers-comes-struggle-for-san-francisco-taxis/ http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2014/01/15/with-ubers-comes-stru... http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2014/01/16/san-francisco-cab-drivers-migrate-to-uber-other-car-services/ http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2014/01/16/san-francisco-ca... http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/12/12/how-lyft-and-uber-will-raise-taxi-drivers-incomes-not-lower-them/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/12/12/how-lyft-... In fact, for all the articles about taxi companies protesting before Uber comes to town, have you ever seen one about drivers complaining after?
marksbrown 12y ago
They also brought Southwark (near London Bridge, London) to a complete standstill on Tuesday because TfL (Transport for London) is not ensuring enough well placed taxi ranks. The Shard for instance has a space for a single taxi. Frankly this new protest and the former reek of an unwillingness to change. Given the monopoly black cabs generally possess, it's not they're ever going to be short of customers.
sheberight 12y ago
Punter: traffic is bad today eh? Cabbie: me mates are making a point about Uber Punter: Uber? What's that? <tap-tap-tap> Cool! Let me out here. Cabbie: tom tit! :-(
fidotron 12y ago
If you think protectionism about Uber is bad just wait for self driving cabs and trucks. This kind of thing is going to get a lot bigger.
tragic 12y ago
Well, if the end result is I can travel a mile in a London cab without selling a kidney, I can't say I'm too worried about Uber coming in.
- JetSpiegel 12y ago
  If you want to travel a mile, you can just walk.
  - MRSallee 12y ago
    Rains a lot in London.
    - sp332 12y ago
      It rains less now that the gulf stream is shifting. It's going to get a lot colder, though. Edit: well according to http://www.bbc.co.uk/climate/impact/gulf_stream.shtml http://www.bbc.co.uk/climate/impact/gulf_stream.shtml "This slowing will have a cooling effect but the temperature will still increase in the region overall" due to the global warming effect.
    - gmac 12y ago
      Luckily, humans are waterproof. :)
      - Dylan16807 12y ago
        Unluckily, they don't travel through rain naked.
        JetSpiegel 12y ago
        Don't they?
      - ZenPro 12y ago
        Water resistant. Unless you have a superpower that makes you impervious to drowning.
casca 12y ago
The Black Cabs in London have a long-standing monopoly on picking people up on the street and providing a metered journey. This is mandated by law. To become a black cab (not always black in colour) driver, it is necessary to take an advanced test called The Knowledge where you are expected to know every London street and landmark along with best routes based on random street closures. It takes about 3 years to study for The Knowledge and there is evidence[1] that they have increased brain size as a result of memorizing all that information. The other option for people wanting a car journey is the "mini-cab" which can be booked to collect from any specific location but must offer a fare in advance of the journey. In order to transport people for money, mini-cab drivers are licensed and have a background check done. Uber drivers in London must have the mini-cab license so this is a question around the black cab monopoly. As with any government-provided monopoly, the incumbents are keen to maintain the status quo while the newcomers are fighting for change. Any advances that Uber makes will benefit all mini-cab companies and most importantly, passengers. [1] http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/677048.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/677048.stm
- oneeyedpigeon 12y ago
  To put that into context, there are 25,000 streets covered by The Knowledge. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxicabs_of_the_United_Kingdom#The_Knowledge http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxicabs_of_the_United_Kingdom#...
  - gadders 12y ago
    I had a neighbour that was doing the knowledge. We used to hear him practise in the back garden with his wife. Hearing her shout random routes at him like "Buckingham Palace to Bank Tube" and him spouting one road name after another was pretty amazing. If you're ever in London and you see a guy (or girl) on a bashed up moped with a clipboard strapped to the handlebars, they are learning their routes for The Knowledge.
    - bananas 12y ago
      Google is pretty good at that too and knows what the traffic is before you get there. It's impressive but no more impressive than navigating a 4 million line software product intuitively...
hobolobo 12y ago
The impression is that Uber are somehow freeing customers from unscrupulous and gouging taxi drivers. Taxi customers aren't being freed, they're simply under new management.
- barnabee 12y ago
  New management gave us a 50% price cut and better customer service. I'll take it.
- LanceH 12y ago
  They're obviously getting something out of it or they wouldn't be customers of the new service.
  - hobolobo 12y ago
    Just because they're getting something out of it doesn't mean it's a better deal all round. Amazon saves individuals money but that doesn't ameliorate the externalities that Amazon's business model create.
switch007 12y ago
I've used Climate Cars a few times and they're great. Mostly on time, their drivers are courteous and well-dressed, and they have a fleet of nice cars (I've mainly been in Prius and hybrid E-class cars). Every time I get in a black cab, I wish I had booked with them. Most mini-cab firms are atrocious - staff are rude and they have no idea where they're going. There's already good competition, but if there's more coming then I'm all for it. Black cabs have a bad reputation. (Edit: no, I don't work for them or have any affiliation.)
bananas 12y ago
Screw the black cabs. I didn't realise what a rip off they are until I started driving around the city myself regularly with Google Maps which to be honest with traffic aware routing destroys "the knowledge" instantly. Black cab drivers know how to make cash, not the most efficient journeys in time and money. That meter hurts you badly. So they'll cause some chaos; good for them but it'll raise more awareness on the issue and hang them faster. More competition is required in this sector for the passengers.
- stuaxo 12y ago
  Really ? It's not too expensive. And it seems the workers get a much better deal than with Addisson Lee. I make a point to use minicab firms if I'm not using a black cab, having spoken to a couple of drivers about the working conditions under Addilee.
  - bananas 12y ago
    £19 each way from Waterloo to Barts. That's expensive.
- robryan 12y ago
  Fair competition is great. It isn't a level playing field though if Uber can do everything a Taxi can without the extra obligations that add to overheads.
stuaxo 12y ago
So - >> TfL told the association last month that it believed Uber's vehicles were not strictly "equipped" with taximeters since there was not "some sort of connection between the device and the vehicle". Instead there is a device used for calculating how far it has gone, e.g. "metering"... this is a bollocks distinction.
- pjc50 12y ago
  It's correct, though; it's not attached to the drivetrain of the vehicle. Ruling that any GPS device capable of tracking distance constituted a "taximeter" and was therefore banned from private cars would be an unworkable disaster. (Hmm, I wonder how Uber's metering copes with the Blackwall tunnel and the Woolwich ferry. My GPS directed me over the ferry once, resulting in a huge delay. Note that on the ferry a GPS would count as "moving" but a taximeter "stationary".)
calinet6 12y ago
You can't block progress.
aspidistra 12y ago
Two other Black Cab app startups: Get Taxi http://gettaxi.co.uk/ http://gettaxi.co.uk/ Hailo https://www.hailocab.com/london https://www.hailocab.com/london I believe these have faced some resistance in some cities even with a strategy of working with licensed taxi operators.
jcampbell1 12y ago
I can't imagine a scenario where this doesn't backfire. This is going to put Uber on the front page of every local London newspaper for a week. At most the black cabs will force uber to make a minor programming change to the app, and the most likely outcome is a massive expansion of Uber in London. I imagine the folks at Uber HQ are giddy right now.
btbuildem 12y ago
And you can laugh at the havoc, for the entire duration of your bike ride.

94 points by sp8 12y ago

What a deplorable, luddite attitude. The black taxis should be banned for some period of time for this behavior. "The Licensed Taxi Drivers Association complains that Uber's drivers are using a smartphone app to calculate fares despite it being illegal for private vehicles to be fitted with taximeters." So using this website in your car is illegal?! http://www.worldtaximeter.com/ http://www.worldtaximeter.com/

corin_ 12y ago
If that law is correct then it seems they have a perfectly valid complaint, using an app on your phone instead of a dedicated device is just circumventing the spirit of the law. Whether the law should still exist, and whether this method of protest is appropriate, are other questions of course.
- nakedrobot2 12y ago
  "private vehicles to be fitted with taximeters" You can measure the distance on a paper map as well. The smartphone app is only slightly more convenient. I do not think they are breaking the spirit of the law.
  - rcxdude 12y ago
    Well, if you do so with the intent of charging a passenger for distance traveled, yeah. The taxi industry is heavily regulated, and circumventing those regulations is extremely questionable. Certainly it does not seem to be a fair market.
- barnabee 12y ago
  Transport For London (the governing body) have set it is not illegal as the law only covers meters that are mechanically attached to the car not an app that uses information about location/time/distance. So they're complaining that they'd like the law to be different so that Uber could be temporarily banned until they code a workaround. Pointless.
fennecfoxen 12y ago
Also, causing gridlock and disrupting the commute is not the best way to make friends and influence people. Unless you have a really clear moral outrage, people will get pretty upset at you as well as those you have a problem with. (If it were otherwise the transit unions would have a much easier time of things.) "illegal to install taximeters" isn't going to resonate with the public, I think. It's hardly the abuse and exploitation by an monstrous and inhuman Management that kick-started unionization in the first place, anyway.
- oneeyedpigeon 12y ago
  What would probably resonate is the 'no tax paid in the UK' argument - that's something that everyone can understand as a negative.
  - alandarev 12y ago
    Oh god, you have reminded me of a 'No tax paid' by Google/Amazon/Starbucks scandal last year. [1] Yes, definitely, the Tax card is enormously effective in UK. I wish the legacy businesses would rather change themselves, seeing how ineffective they are, instead of spending resources on fighting innovation. [1] - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20560359 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20560359
- rmc 12y ago
  "This taxi driver could be a criminal and/or scam you in the fare" might resonate with people. It might also tap into latent racism about immigrants driving around with the same level of licencing.
  - barnabee 12y ago
    Uber drivers still have to be licensed minicab drivers in London, there's just a difference between that and metered black cabs.
    - rmc 12y ago
nodata 12y ago
> What a deplorable, luddite attitude. Well presumably you know their side of the story too? Presumably (hopefully someone who actually knows can fill us in) the taxi drivers have spent huge amounts of time learning The Knowledge and buying their cars and keeping to the fairly strict regulations that exist, and don't find it fair that another company can offer a service without a level playing field. Presumably.
- rubiquity 12y ago
  Yes, but I think the taxi associations only have themselves to blame for all the ceremony required to become a taxi driver. I think a lot of these regulations were created by existing taxi companies to present barriers of entry to people wanting to form new taxi companies.
  - _delirium 12y ago
    Although I'm not an expert in the history of UK taxis, my impression is that a good number of the regulations were imposed by the government, due to complaints from the public about quality/maintenance/knowledgeability/numbers. That seems to have been the impetus for the original 1662 Act imposing a mandatory licensing requirement, at least: Londoners thought there were too many taxis clogging up the roads, and further were worried about reckless and otherwise un-vetted drivers. Even nowadays the requirement that London taxi drivers know how to get around London seems popular with the public; British tourists regularly complain about how drivers elsewhere can't even find major landmarks without a map, in a "glad it's not like that back home" sort of way. My guess is that the requirement would be confirmed if put to a referendum. Other requirements, such as the "cannot refuse a fare in central London" requirement, are also pretty popular.
    - rubiquity 12y ago
      Sorry, I guess I should say I wasn't speaking with any experience of taxis in London. My statement mostly applies to things I've read/heard about taxis in the US and Canada.
lmm 12y ago
You're either a minicab offering pre-booked journeys or you're a taxi with a meter. If Uber is claiming they're a pre-booked journey service rather than a taxi then yes, they shouldn't be using meters and that would be illegal. If you want to change the law then by all means write to your MP or whatever, but in the meantime the law as it is should be enforced, even against fashionable companies.
- ibmthrowaway218 12y ago
  In the absence of a pre-agreed/fixed price most minicab drivers will charge based on a combination of distance/time measured using the vehicles trip-meter/odometer and a clock. That's not much different to what the Uber app is doing in (surge multiplier excepted).
  - lmm 12y ago
    Minicabs in London are required to be pre-booked, otherwise they're breaking the law. I can't say I've used them a lot but when I have I've always been quoted a price when booking.
    - ibmthrowaway218 12y ago
      I rarely ever agree a price when booking a minicab in advance, but I use the same minicab firms I've used for a long time so I know they're unlikely to rip me off.
- Karunamon 12y ago
  > but in the meantime the law as it is should be enforced This attitude puzzles me greatly. Rule of law is a principle, not a dogmatic application of The Rules Über Alles. Crap laws should be ignored.
  - claudius 12y ago
    > Crap laws should be ignored. So who gets to decide which laws are “crap laws” and which laws are proper laws that should be obeyed? Last time I checked, this was usually not the job of some random startup firm but rather the responsibility of parliament. You can argue that sometimes it is appropriate to fight against specific laws by ignoring them if the cost of not doing so vastly outweights the cost of lowering the authority of the law. I don’t think taxi laws fall into that category – if the current laws required all drivers to be white, I could maybe understand fighting that law by disobedience, but otherwise?

brianlweiner 12y ago

Ridiculous behavior. I'm glad the black taxis seem to have their customer's well-being at heart. "Uber, funded by Google, Goldman Sachs and others, has a stated aim of challenging legislation that is not compatible with its business model," said Mr McNamara. "This is not some philanthropic friendly society, it's an American monster that has no qualms about breaching any and all laws in the pursuit of profit, most of which will never see a penny of tax paid in the UK." Besides the ridiculous attempt to conflate Uber with evil bankers, it seems strange to suggest "most" of the profit will never be taxed in UK. Aren't all the UK drivers paying taxes?

corin_ 12y ago
> Besides the ridiculous attempt to conflate Uber with evil bankers, it seems strange to suggest "most" of the profit will never be taxed in UK. Aren't all the UK drivers paying taxes? They would, yes - but when any big company gets bad press for not paying taxes in the UK (for example Google), nobody uses the excuse "but their staff in the UK still pay UK tax", the focus is on whether the company's profits are being taxed.
- k-mcgrady 12y ago
  >> "They would, yes - but when any big company gets bad press for not paying taxes in the UK (for example Google), nobody uses the excuse "but their staff in the UK still pay UK tax", the focus is on whether the company's profits are being taxed." Because the tax paid by employees is insignificant compared to the tax the company should be paying.
  - rwmj 12y ago
    Umm, citation needed. Salaries are usually at least 50% of a company's expenses, and UK tax on salaries will be 30-40% of that, so that's at least 15-20%, likely more.
    - corin_ 12y ago
      Citation needed for sure, but being a big % of expenses doesn't mean anything either way - salaries could be 100% of your expenses, and tax rates could be 90%, but if the company has revenue of 100x and expenditure of 10x then 90% of that 100% is still only 9x, which is the equivilent to a 10% tax on their 90x company profits. (Equally, salaries could be a small percentage of expenditure, but if the company makes only a small amount of net profit then tax on salaries could easily dwarf tax on the company's profits.)

6d0debc071 12y ago

I wonder how legal that is. 'If a person, without lawful authority or excuse, in any way wilfully obstructs the free passage along a highway he is guilty of an offence and liable to a fine not exceeding [F1 level 3 on the standard scale].' - Highways Act 1980 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/66/part/IX/crossheading/obstruction-of-highways-and-streets http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/66/part/IX/crosshea...

crazypyro 12y ago
This was my thought. Purposely blocking traffic is illegal and I hope everyone of these taxi drivers get fines. This is like a child throwing a fit when they don't get their way...
oneeyedpigeon 12y ago
How easy would that be to prove? At what point does a group of vehicles that happen to be driving down the same piece of road turn into a 'wilful obstruction'?
- icebraining 12y ago
  When they announce it on the BBC beforehand?
corin_ 12y ago
There are ways to hold a protest/demonstration/march legally [1], though I've no idea a.) whether what they plan would fit what's allowed on that front b.) whether they have informed police etc. Could well be they're going down the "prove we're not just normal congestion" road. Edit: forgot the link. [1] https://www.gov.uk/protests-and-marches-letting-the-police-know https://www.gov.uk/protests-and-marches-letting-the-police-k...
ibmthrowaway218 12y ago
The right to protest is also enshrined in UK law (within a huge number of constraints). Other (one-off or infrequent) protests such as Critical Mass certainly obstruct free passage along the highway, but they are tolerated.

raldi 12y ago

Note that the rank-and-file taxi drivers aren't complaining; they'll all get a chance to become Uber drivers. It's the incumbent taxi organization that's upset, because it's about to become a lot less powerful.

stuaxo 12y ago
And we can all get a chance to swap our jobs for zero hours contracts, what a wonderful world.
- raldi 12y ago
  Taxi drivers' pre-Uber work arrangements are even worse; by and large they seem to love switching from working for a taxi company to working as an Uber driver. For example: http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2014/01/15/with-ubers-comes-struggle-for-san-francisco-taxis/ http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2014/01/15/with-ubers-comes-stru... http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2014/01/16/san-francisco-cab-drivers-migrate-to-uber-other-car-services/ http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2014/01/16/san-francisco-ca... http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/12/12/how-lyft-and-uber-will-raise-taxi-drivers-incomes-not-lower-them/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/12/12/how-lyft-... In fact, for all the articles about taxi companies protesting before Uber comes to town, have you ever seen one about drivers complaining after?

marksbrown 12y ago

They also brought Southwark (near London Bridge, London) to a complete standstill on Tuesday because TfL (Transport for London) is not ensuring enough well placed taxi ranks. The Shard for instance has a space for a single taxi. Frankly this new protest and the former reek of an unwillingness to change. Given the monopoly black cabs generally possess, it's not they're ever going to be short of customers.

sheberight 12y ago

Punter: traffic is bad today eh? Cabbie: me mates are making a point about Uber Punter: Uber? What's that? <tap-tap-tap> Cool! Let me out here. Cabbie: tom tit! :-(

fidotron 12y ago

If you think protectionism about Uber is bad just wait for self driving cabs and trucks. This kind of thing is going to get a lot bigger.

tragic 12y ago

Well, if the end result is I can travel a mile in a London cab without selling a kidney, I can't say I'm too worried about Uber coming in.

JetSpiegel 12y ago
If you want to travel a mile, you can just walk.
- MRSallee 12y ago
  Rains a lot in London.
  - sp332 12y ago
    It rains less now that the gulf stream is shifting. It's going to get a lot colder, though. Edit: well according to http://www.bbc.co.uk/climate/impact/gulf_stream.shtml http://www.bbc.co.uk/climate/impact/gulf_stream.shtml "This slowing will have a cooling effect but the temperature will still increase in the region overall" due to the global warming effect.
  - gmac 12y ago
    Luckily, humans are waterproof. :)
    - Dylan16807 12y ago
      Unluckily, they don't travel through rain naked.
      - JetSpiegel 12y ago
        Don't they?
    - ZenPro 12y ago
      Water resistant. Unless you have a superpower that makes you impervious to drowning.

casca 12y ago

The Black Cabs in London have a long-standing monopoly on picking people up on the street and providing a metered journey. This is mandated by law. To become a black cab (not always black in colour) driver, it is necessary to take an advanced test called The Knowledge where you are expected to know every London street and landmark along with best routes based on random street closures. It takes about 3 years to study for The Knowledge and there is evidence[1] that they have increased brain size as a result of memorizing all that information. The other option for people wanting a car journey is the "mini-cab" which can be booked to collect from any specific location but must offer a fare in advance of the journey. In order to transport people for money, mini-cab drivers are licensed and have a background check done. Uber drivers in London must have the mini-cab license so this is a question around the black cab monopoly. As with any government-provided monopoly, the incumbents are keen to maintain the status quo while the newcomers are fighting for change. Any advances that Uber makes will benefit all mini-cab companies and most importantly, passengers. [1] http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/677048.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/677048.stm

oneeyedpigeon 12y ago
To put that into context, there are 25,000 streets covered by The Knowledge. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxicabs_of_the_United_Kingdom#The_Knowledge http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxicabs_of_the_United_Kingdom#...
- gadders 12y ago
  I had a neighbour that was doing the knowledge. We used to hear him practise in the back garden with his wife. Hearing her shout random routes at him like "Buckingham Palace to Bank Tube" and him spouting one road name after another was pretty amazing. If you're ever in London and you see a guy (or girl) on a bashed up moped with a clipboard strapped to the handlebars, they are learning their routes for The Knowledge.
  - bananas 12y ago
    Google is pretty good at that too and knows what the traffic is before you get there. It's impressive but no more impressive than navigating a 4 million line software product intuitively...

hobolobo 12y ago

The impression is that Uber are somehow freeing customers from unscrupulous and gouging taxi drivers. Taxi customers aren't being freed, they're simply under new management.

barnabee 12y ago
New management gave us a 50% price cut and better customer service. I'll take it.
LanceH 12y ago
They're obviously getting something out of it or they wouldn't be customers of the new service.
- hobolobo 12y ago
  Just because they're getting something out of it doesn't mean it's a better deal all round. Amazon saves individuals money but that doesn't ameliorate the externalities that Amazon's business model create.

switch007 12y ago

I've used Climate Cars a few times and they're great. Mostly on time, their drivers are courteous and well-dressed, and they have a fleet of nice cars (I've mainly been in Prius and hybrid E-class cars). Every time I get in a black cab, I wish I had booked with them. Most mini-cab firms are atrocious - staff are rude and they have no idea where they're going. There's already good competition, but if there's more coming then I'm all for it. Black cabs have a bad reputation. (Edit: no, I don't work for them or have any affiliation.)

bananas 12y ago

Screw the black cabs. I didn't realise what a rip off they are until I started driving around the city myself regularly with Google Maps which to be honest with traffic aware routing destroys "the knowledge" instantly. Black cab drivers know how to make cash, not the most efficient journeys in time and money. That meter hurts you badly. So they'll cause some chaos; good for them but it'll raise more awareness on the issue and hang them faster. More competition is required in this sector for the passengers.

stuaxo 12y ago
Really ? It's not too expensive. And it seems the workers get a much better deal than with Addisson Lee. I make a point to use minicab firms if I'm not using a black cab, having spoken to a couple of drivers about the working conditions under Addilee.
- bananas 12y ago
  £19 each way from Waterloo to Barts. That's expensive.
robryan 12y ago
Fair competition is great. It isn't a level playing field though if Uber can do everything a Taxi can without the extra obligations that add to overheads.

stuaxo 12y ago

So - >> TfL told the association last month that it believed Uber's vehicles were not strictly "equipped" with taximeters since there was not "some sort of connection between the device and the vehicle". Instead there is a device used for calculating how far it has gone, e.g. "metering"... this is a bollocks distinction.

pjc50 12y ago
It's correct, though; it's not attached to the drivetrain of the vehicle. Ruling that any GPS device capable of tracking distance constituted a "taximeter" and was therefore banned from private cars would be an unworkable disaster. (Hmm, I wonder how Uber's metering copes with the Blackwall tunnel and the Woolwich ferry. My GPS directed me over the ferry once, resulting in a huge delay. Note that on the ferry a GPS would count as "moving" but a taximeter "stationary".)

calinet6 12y ago

You can't block progress.

aspidistra 12y ago

Two other Black Cab app startups: Get Taxi http://gettaxi.co.uk/ http://gettaxi.co.uk/ Hailo https://www.hailocab.com/london https://www.hailocab.com/london I believe these have faced some resistance in some cities even with a strategy of working with licensed taxi operators.

jcampbell1 12y ago

I can't imagine a scenario where this doesn't backfire. This is going to put Uber on the front page of every local London newspaper for a week. At most the black cabs will force uber to make a minor programming change to the app, and the most likely outcome is a massive expansion of Uber in London. I imagine the folks at Uber HQ are giddy right now.

btbuildem 12y ago

And you can laugh at the havoc, for the entire duration of your bike ride.