4 ms·

Regulation doesn't make software better. I don't know about Toyota specifically, but I work for a regulated sector, and the end result is that we generate docu

Regulation doesn't make software better. I don't know about Toyota specifically, but I work for a regulated sector, and the end result is that we generate documented and ISO 9001:2000 - compliant duct tape and bubble gum :P .

joezydeco 13y ago
Have you noticed that ISO9000:2000 is a lot more relaxed than ISO9000 was in the 1990s? You have to wonder if so many projects were failing that they eventually decided to move the goalposts closer.
- GFischer 13y ago
  I never got to see the older ISO standard :) (I entered the workforce in 2002) so I'll take you at your word. It does seem to be not that hard to attain a certification.
ska 13y ago
Nothing is a panacea. Regulation can encourage better engineering practices, and that can certainly make for better software. The existence of false positives doesn't mean the whole exercise is pointless.
- GFischer 13y ago
  I agree that regulation might point you in the right direction, but if the company is not commited to quality, I think it's very hard (and unlikely) for regulation to make the company change its bad habits. What I've seen is regulation stifling change, freezing projects, and creating more bureaucracy. In the particular company I work for (financial sector), there has been an increase in regulation and auditing of security practices. They're still really bad, you've seen endless posts here decrying the awfulness of some banking security practices. The worst thing is, they've probably been audited and made to pass some kind of regulatory standard, and the very fact they had to go through all that makes it harder to change (even if they're awful) since managament isn't willing to authorize it, especially since it doesn't affect the bottom line. If more people have to resign (like the Target CEO), maybe things will change, but I suspect IT people will become scapegoats instead.
  - ska 13y ago
    Agree that you have to actually be committed to improving the quality, you can't paper over holes in this and expect good results. If there is genuine disinterest at the management level in making better quality software for whatever reasons, you're probably screwed regardless of what you try. You can lead a horse to water...

joezydeco 13y ago

Have you noticed that ISO9000:2000 is a lot more relaxed than ISO9000 was in the 1990s? You have to wonder if so many projects were failing that they eventually decided to move the goalposts closer.

GFischer 13y ago
I never got to see the older ISO standard :) (I entered the workforce in 2002) so I'll take you at your word. It does seem to be not that hard to attain a certification.

ska 13y ago

Nothing is a panacea. Regulation can encourage better engineering practices, and that can certainly make for better software. The existence of false positives doesn't mean the whole exercise is pointless.

GFischer 13y ago
I agree that regulation might point you in the right direction, but if the company is not commited to quality, I think it's very hard (and unlikely) for regulation to make the company change its bad habits. What I've seen is regulation stifling change, freezing projects, and creating more bureaucracy. In the particular company I work for (financial sector), there has been an increase in regulation and auditing of security practices. They're still really bad, you've seen endless posts here decrying the awfulness of some banking security practices. The worst thing is, they've probably been audited and made to pass some kind of regulatory standard, and the very fact they had to go through all that makes it harder to change (even if they're awful) since managament isn't willing to authorize it, especially since it doesn't affect the bottom line. If more people have to resign (like the Target CEO), maybe things will change, but I suspect IT people will become scapegoats instead.
- ska 13y ago
  Agree that you have to actually be committed to improving the quality, you can't paper over holes in this and expect good results. If there is genuine disinterest at the management level in making better quality software for whatever reasons, you're probably screwed regardless of what you try. You can lead a horse to water...