24 ms·

Spouses of Some H-1B Visa Holders to Be Allowed to Work

97 points by goshx 12y ago

tnb234 12y ago
As a married guy in the process of getting my H-1B visa I have to say this is a relief. It's a first step towards a more open immigration policy [1]. [1] http://www.iamimmigration.org/index.html#/get-facts/ http://www.iamimmigration.org/index.html#/get-facts/
- toomuchtodo 12y ago
  As a US citizen, I'm all for this. Why would we ever prevent the spouse of someone with an H-1B from working?
  - dominotw 12y ago
    Given the long wait times for Green Cards. Wouldn't that effectively double the h1b quota ? H1B's have to go though long process of LCA's, ads in the newpapers, notices etc before their visa is approved. Would H4's have to go though this also? If not I can see this being abused by offshoring companies as loophole in the system. I don't see how this is 'first step' towards a better immigration policy. Current H1B system is not used in the way it is intended for the most part. Its modern day serfdom used to attract desperate educated people from poor countries. Why not give them green cards and let them actually take advantage of american system and create jobs instead of treating them like 2nd class citizens with no rights, no voice, no dreams.
    - jadc 12y ago
      Well according to the DHS site, the H1-B employee need to have started the process of becoming a permanent resident so it seems less susceptible to being abused by companies trying to bring in people from abroad and using this to double their quota.
      - deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]
    - GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
      What makes you think that's not the way it's intended?
    - guyzero 12y ago
      There are only long green card wait times for people born in India and China (maybe the Philippines?). Most other people should be able to get a green card in a year or two with a decent lawyer.
      - keerthiko 12y ago
        You say "only" and then discount over half the population of the world, let alone far more than half the people trying to immigrate into the US =/
      - aeontech 12y ago
        You have a very optimistic view. Everyone I know that went through the process took between six and ten years, in large part because INS/USCIS is so backlogged. None of them were from India, China or Philippines.
        hippich 12y ago
        I am from Belarus and got greencard within 2 years (including waster 5 months because of wrong ads post)
        dominotw 12y ago
        9 yrs and counting... :). I've lost all motivation to do anything fun/innovative with my life at this point with my 20's spent stuck in green card queue. I just feel like a resentful shell of my former self, a product of a failed nation/people.
        hippich 12y ago
        why it is taking so long for you? What category you are in? And what country you are from?
        mahyarm 12y ago
        Do you have a masters / 5 years of experience?
- levosmetalo 12y ago
  Then look at it in details. I didn't read the article, but in the submission title there is one suspicious word "some", which could mean anything from "almost everyone" to "almost noone" would be allowed.
- a8da6b0c91d 12y ago
  America does not need a more open immigration policy. America needs an immediate full immigration moratorium, lasting at least five years, while we set about fixing the system. http://vdare.com/articles/the-economic-case-for-an-immigration-moratorium http://vdare.com/articles/the-economic-case-for-an-immigrati...
  - misnome 12y ago
    Yeah, Isolationism and Xenophobia are always the best of all possible solutions!
    - atwebb 12y ago
      Yeah, short and quippy statements with no content are the best of all possible reactions!
      - deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]
  - bruceb 12y ago
    I would say that immigration is complex. Also there are clear differences in what different types of immigrants bring to the US. Clearly immigration helps some and hurts some. For some low wage workers clearly bringing in more low skilled and semi skilled works does hurt them. That being said grabbing the cream of the crop from around the world is mostly good for the US.
    - Roboprog 12y ago
      Problem is, H-1B is little more than an indentured servant program. If we were immigrating only the best and brightest, as free men (women), that would be a bit different.
      - jadc 12y ago
        It seems that many equate H-1B with bringing in cheap labor from abroad. The truth is if you are an international student in the US and would like to stay in the US afterwards then applying for an H1-B (presumably after being on a F-1 student visa) and then getting the permanent residency is often the best way forward.
- jdcryans 12y ago
  As whitenoise mentions below, it's only if your I-140 has been approved or your H1B has been extended that your spouse can work. Even if you are getting your H1B this October, and assuming that you could qualify for EB-2 in ROW and that your company starts the green card process the day you start working (more likely it's gonna take 6 months to a year), your wife still won't be able to work for another 2 years. Just getting the PERM these days can easily take a year. Also IANAL.
  - jadc 12y ago
    Indeed. Sounds like it would take before your spouse could be eligible to work but it does seem to be an improvement over the current situation especially for citizens of countries with long backlogs in the permanent residency process (India, China, etc...) where getting the green card can take 10 years or sometimes more.
- mnglkhn2 12y ago
  The only thing now is to ask your company to sponsor your green card as soon as you can. They might want to postpone it for a few good years but it is up to you to negotiate.
Velox 12y ago
Anyone want to explain what this is? It's a paywall and I'm not american so there is no way I'm paying for a subscription to it.
- dalore 12y ago
  Spouses of people who are working in America on a H1-B visa (the most common visa that tech people work on) are now allowed to work themselves.
  - objclxt 12y ago
    Not quite. Spouses of people who are working in America on a H1-B visa and have applied for a green card or extended their visa are allowed to work themselves. That is a much smaller pool than people on H-1B visas.
    - goshx 12y ago
      Still not quite, because they are not automatically allowed to work. They have to request employment authorization and who knows what other criteria may be imposed at that time.
      - cesarbs 12y ago
        AFAIK obtaining an EAD is quite straightforward.
- whitenoise 12y ago
  The DHS press release[1] has more details. Link to the proposed rule on reginfo.gov[2]. In short, this rule allows spouses of H1B holders to work, provided the H1B holder has an approved I-140 or has their H1B extended beyond 6 year limit under AC21. Notice that this rule is very specific and does not cover all H1B holders. [1]http://www.dhs.gov/news/2014/05/06/dhs-announces-proposals-attract-and-retain-highly-skilled-immigrants http://www.dhs.gov/news/2014/05/06/dhs-announces-proposals-a... [2]http://www.reginfo.gov/public/do/eAgendaViewRule?pubId=201310&RIN=1615-AB92 http://www.reginfo.gov/public/do/eAgendaViewRule?pubId=20131... EDIT: Grammer
vijayr 12y ago
Paywall :( http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/news-wire/2014/05/06/should-spouses-of-h-1b-visa-holders-be-allowed-to.html http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/news-wire/2014/...
- alexhektor 12y ago
  google the headline. WSJ paywall has been discussed here as well for further information.
- hippich 12y ago
  if using Google Chrome, prepend link with "cache:" and here you go. But you are right - there are other news sources with this information.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
lmg643 12y ago
It sounds perverse to say this, but the first thought I have is all the marriages that will be specifically arranged to take advantage of this. Seems like a clever loophole to increase the number of visas, while casting it as a benevolent change that makes it easier to retain talent. I'm not a big fan of letting employers make immigration decisions. There's too much of an incentive to try to get low cost labor, which subsidizes stupid business practices. Sure, employers could invest in automation and smarter operating procedures, or we can just plug the hole as cheaply as possible. H1Bs are unlikely to be big entrepreneurial catalysts because they are effectively tied to their employer and in a tricky legal framework. Honestly - I thought that was the whole point of the visa. And not to too much of a snob here, but the three immigrants mentioned in the Fortune 500 were all graduates of elite american universities (Andy Grove - Berkeley, Jerry Yang, Sergey - Stanford), which proves mostly nothing about the visa program. I think a much better policy for America is to allow the top 50-100 universities by US News to determine who is qualified to enter. those measures are not perfect, but it is rate-limited by the size of their degree programs and they have an incentive to keep the quality of admitted applicants high.
- JoeAltmaier 12y ago
  How about letting people decide for themselves? Not corporations, not universities. If people get married and get jobs, success! What other measure is needed?
- shas3 12y ago
  In the current H1B system, it doesn't matter if the applicant is from an elite US university. If you have to work in the US, and if you are not a permanent resident or US citizen, you go through, for the most part, the exact same H1B system as everyone else. The only difference is, if you have a masters or higher degree, your H1B visa processing is done through a separate quota. In today's system, unless you are a PhD with many publications in prestigious conferences/journals, etc., straight out of college (i.e., BS or MS), permanent residency is a long and highly bureaucratic process for most applicants. So essentially, your spouse cannot work till you get a green card. Here is an interesting story about an early Google employee highlighting this problem: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/12/business/12immig.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/12/business/12immig.html?page... Also, in 2014, people are not as desperate to live and work in the US as you think, to arrange marriages for this sole purpose. Further, this rule-change applies to that subset of H1B workers who are on track to get green cards. Employment-based green cards could take even 10 years to be processed because of purely administrative and bureaucratic delays. Besides, the H1B workers affected by this rule are usually highly skilled and are likely to have similar quality of life if they lived and worked in their home country. When you take this into account, the loophole-theory that you talk about jumps into the realm of paranoid conspiracy theory. (IANAL)
psuter 12y ago
I love how these "proposals to attract and retain highly skilled immigrants" do not cover O-1 holders, the "individuals with extraordinary ability or achievement". (I'm guessing because O-1 visas are not dual-intent.) In any case, certainly a step in the right direction.
- dublinben 12y ago
  I don't think the government wants to advertise how much easier O-1 visas can be obtained by celebrities and models, than other visas can be obtained by scientists and engineers.
- lachyg 12y ago
  Hm? O-1 is dual intent. Source: 8 C.F.R. 214.2(o) (13) “Effect of approval of a permanent labor certification or filing of a preference petition on O classification. The approval of a permanent labor certification or the filing of a preference petition for an alien shall not be a basis for denying an O–1 petition, a request to extend such a petition, or the alien's application for admission, change of status, or extension of stay. The alien may legitimately come to the United States for a temporary period as an O–1 nonimmigrant and depart voluntarily at the end of his or her authorized stay and, at the same time, lawfully seek to become a permanent resident of the United States.”
- technotony 12y ago
  Actually they do. The last paragraph says that they are making EB1 visas (which is the green card version of the O1) easier to get: Another revision announced Tuesday will ease requirements for applicants of an EB-1 work visa, which is issued to researchers and professors with extraordinary ability. To qualify, applicants for the visas currently must submit awards, scholarly articles and a host of evidence to prove their outstanding recognition in and contribution to a particular field. The new rule will allow applicants to present comparable evidence that is acceptable, the official said. For entrepreneurs this is the most exciting development in these proposals as it should make the path to getting a green card easier.
makmanalp 12y ago
It's good news that change is happening. The bad news is that it's only after 6 years of residence: http://lofgren.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=379143 http://lofgren.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID...
- goshx 12y ago
  Not only those [1]: "Eligible individuals would include H-4 dependent spouses of principal H-1B workers who: Are the beneficiaries of an approved Form I-140, Immigrant Petition for Alien Worker; or Have been granted an extension of their authorized period of stay in the United States under the American Competitiveness in the Twenty-first Century Act of 2000 (AC21) as amended by the 21st Century Department of Justice Appropriations Authorization Act. AC21 permits H-1B workers seeking lawful permanent residence to work and remain in the United States beyond the six-year limit." [1] http://www.dhs.gov/news/2014/05/06/dhs-announces-proposals-attract-and-retain-highly-skilled-immigrants http://www.dhs.gov/news/2014/05/06/dhs-announces-proposals-a...
- tsenkov 12y ago
  I don't get it... In the original article it says: >"Spouses of H-1B visa holders being sponsored for a green card by their employers will be allowed to work in the U.S." If you are "being" sponsored, this means you are "in the process", not after you got the green card. As much as I know, a company can sponsor H1-B holders right from the start of their contract (although, probably not all of them do so) for getting a green card. Either this statement from the original post is wrong, OR the interpretation in the house.gov is wrong, OR I'm missing something (probably & most-likely). Does anyone have a clear answer?
  - hpagey 12y ago
    Technically speaking H1b process and green card are two separate things. A company can sponsor for green card without sponsoring H1b. But, this is how the process typically works, Step 1) Company sponsors H1b Step 2) Employee works at the company for say like a year Step 3) Company starts the green card process and files labor. Step 4) Labor is approved and employee receives a priority date. Step 5) Company applies for i-140 . Step 6) i-140 is approved and priority date is now set. Step 7) Employee keeps on renewing H1b until priority date becomes current. Step 8) When priority date becomes current, employee along with its dependents can apply for i-485 Adjustment of status. Step 9) Employee and its dependents received EAD cards and Advance payroll ( for traveling purpose. Step 10) USCIS starts processing i-485 applications (each dependent gets its own application) and starts adjucating them. Step 11) USCIS asks for Visa number once adjucation is done. Each dependent needs its own visa number. Step 12) If visa number is available when its requested green card is issue, else application remains pending until visa numbers become available. Now, the above mentioned rule will allow spouses to obtain work authorization from Step 6. Previously, they had to wait till Step 8 to obtain it.
logfromblammo 12y ago
I don't understand the overt, superficial purpose of H-1B visas. If you have a company that needs one, and a foreigner who qualifies for it, why would it not be better for the public in every possible circumstance to just grant that foreign person an unconditional work visa and automatically enroll them for consideration for permanent residency? And then I put my foil hat on, and the voices tell me that the H-1B program must not be for the benefit of the public, and that both the American workers and the foreigners with visas are being exploited for the benefit of the corporate sponsors. The only benefit I see here to essentially doubling the number of available guest workers under H-1B is that the affected spouses are free to change employers and to quit from unsuitable employment without being deported. That makes them better off than the person that actually has the sponsorship!
- refurb 12y ago
  The reason for the temporary nature of H1-Bs is that it's an attempt to provide a responsive immigration policy. Just because you can't find a US citizen to fill a role now, doesn't mean that 10 years from now you won't be. If 10 years from now a pool of qualified US workers becomes available, the H1-B approval would need to be repeated, the labor certification would fail and the immigrant would not be allowed to fill the role. I'm certainly not saying it's the best way to handle it, but that's the logic behind the current rules.
  - logfromblammo 12y ago
    If you make the worker a citizen, you can be absolutely certain that a citizen can fill the role, both now and ten years in the future. Otherwise, you are finding a different person to fill the role in ten years, and that person will be competing with someone in a foreign country that has 10 more years of experience.
    - refurb 12y ago
      And if you make the worker a citizen and the industry crashes, you've got another person on social assistance. If they are on a non-immigrant visa, you send them home.
dang 12y ago
We changed the url from [1] since the paywall is a notch lower. 1. http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303417104579544550269535992 http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000142405270230341710...
datacog 12y ago
This proposal is ridiculous! They are offering the possibility to work after 6 years of H1B or in early phases of Green card process. - Their intent doesnt seem to be providing Spouses with opportunity to work, but instead prevent dropouts of those people who get fed up of the process and either go back home or apply for Canada PR. I know few such people myself - Important point: During the 4-6 years when the spouse cannot legally work, either they have given up on their career or have already signed up for a graduate program in order to get an F1. It is basically useless to offer jobs to someone after 6 years of being jobless and they have very very less competitive advantage unless they have a made a productive use of time by doing stuff such as freelancing and pro-bono work. - Dependents of L1 visa (L2) are allowed to work on EAD, I dont understand why it is so complex for H4's. - Another effect of this would also mean that the govt might not consider increasing the CAP for H1B next year, but rather try to retain the exising H1B's and try to get their green card done. So, although this change seems optimistic, it isnt that helpful (I myself was very excited after I first saw this)
- tn13 12y ago
  People with L1 can not change their jobs. They also supposed to be transferred employees and not temporary workers.
- jdcryans 12y ago
  I don't think it's ridiculous, and the current 97k H4s that will now be able to work are probably pretty happy about it [1]. Regarding the L2s being able to get their EADs but not the H4s, keep in mind that the latter are not the only ones in this situation, it's the same thing with TN/TD. And then you have the E-3 spouses (Australia) who _can_ get their EADs[2] :) I think that the problem is that each visa/work status was created separately, so it's more than just a case of "since it works for this one, why doesn't it work for this other one". I agree with you that this current situation is ridiculous but I'm happy that they start addressing those issues, even if piece by piece. 1. http://recode.net/2014/05/06/congrats-h-1b-spouses-you-can-get-back-to-work-soon/ http://recode.net/2014/05/06/congrats-h-1b-spouses-you-can-g... 2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-3_visa http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-3_visa
tn13 12y ago
The more I read about H1B laws more I find it ridiculous. US immigration laws are the best example of how policy making runs based on fabricated fears rather than pragmatism. If a spouse is in Us for 6 years on H4, she is essentially sitting ducks all those years not doing anything. No one will employ such a person. You cant even run a blog and earn through ad-sense on H4. Neither can you work remotely for a foreign company. It is beyond me why such law exists in first place. People from Mexico can jump over the fence come to US and work while the president goes out of his way to ensure that these people can get US taxpayer's money but my wife who is engineering graduate with over 8 years of experience working for American companies in India can not work in US because it takes away jobs of American people!
- chimeracoder 12y ago
  > It is beyond me why such law exists in first place. People from Mexico can jump over the fence come to US and work while the president goes out of his way to ensure that these people can get US taxpayer's money but my wife who is engineering graduate with over 8 years of experience working for American companies in India can not work in US because it takes away jobs of American people! You just answered your own question. The people "jumping the fence" (as you put it) are often taking low-paying (even below minimum wage) jobs that US citizens don't want, so it's less problematic politically[0]. On the other hand, there are a lot of citizens who would love whatever job your wife would get with 8 years of engineering experience, so it's more politically challenging to give that job to a non-citizen, even if she is undeniably qualified for it. [0] In fact, some industries rely on illegal immigrants and/or illegal migrant workers as sources of labor below minimum wage (see: agriculture[1]), so they have an incentive to enable this practice (or at least turn a blind eye), since they can't rely on the legal resources to provide them labor at that price. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reefer_Madness_%282003_book%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reefer_Madness_%282003_book%29 (Don't be fooled by the title - the chapter I'm referring to is about production of strawberries).
  - tn13 12y ago
    I agree that people generally do not understand the economic principles behind all this and rather fall prey to the absurd arguments such as "there are fixed number of jobs" to compete for or "some jobs Americans are not willing to do always".
diogenescynic 12y ago
I've got to add my experience to this: The problem with H-1Bs is the vast majority of them are abusing the system. I've seen it firsthand working at one of the top four global immigration law firms. Most H-1Bs are gaming the system. They lie about their title, experience, and work location to get a lower prevailing wage. For example, they say they are going to work in Iowa and then work in Boston and on and on. Most (over 80%) of the H-1s go to outsourcing companies like Cognizant, Tata (TCS), Infosys, Symphony etc. Their entire business model is based on the fact that it will be cheaper to obtain and H-1 than to hire locally. This is fundamentally fucked up. Most H-1s are coming from diploma mills or have no education at all and use 'experience evaluations' which are another rubber stamp service. It's not truly high-skilled labor. If they were high-skilled they'd just apply as an O-1 applicant. H-1s are effectively apprentice engineers. They usually do not have any specialization--so why are they needed? To keep wages flat. It's a corporate handout. Look at how STEM salaries have stagnated: http://spectrum.ieee.org/at-work/education/the-stem-crisis-is-a-myth http://spectrum.ieee.org/at-work/education/the-stem-crisis-i... But really, H-1s aren't nearly as bad as the L-1s. L-1s have no prevailing wage and no education requirements. Fortune500s bring over L-1s and keep them on foreign payroll (for up to 6 years) and then can send them abroad for a year and bring them back for another 6. I've seen L-1s coming to work for major oil companies where the applicant has 20 years of experience and a Master's degree--making $15,000/year. The problem with freedom of labour and open borders is that it's usually just one way. How many Americans are going to work abroad in India? How many Canadians are going to work in China? It's feel-good rhetoric but ultimately it's just an excuse to flood richer nations with workers from poorer nations. I'd be all for this system if there was some kind of tit-for-tat program where India gets as many visas given to them as they give to us proportionally--but it will never happen. If STEM and engineers are so in demand why have their wages stagnated? Why has the average income actually dropped in Silicon Valley? There's a disconnect in what they claim is happening and what is really happening. The other problem I see with H-1Bs is the way they connect to Green Card/Permanent Residency. Once you file your I-140, you can stay on your H-1 indefinitely. Your H-1 doesn't have to match your I-140 either, so you can be employed as something lowly like Customer Support Engineer and then file the I-140 for a "Senior Data Scientist" or whatever and then drag out the Green Card process to keep their prevailing wage down. Oh and guess what? The companies and the law firms coordinate to do this. Why? Because once the I-140 is filed the employee is locked into that company and they can hold the Green Card out as a carrot and get a loyal obedient worker. It's a sick exploitive system. It's bad for everyone but the corporate executives who are getting a bonus for meeting their budgets. Moreover, corporations also coordinate mass-layoffs and filing for Green Cards. They will file for hundreds, sometimes thousands of Green Cards, then wait to announce the layoffs once the I-140s are filed. If they did it the reverse they wouldn't be allowed to file for the I-140s. I saw this happen monthly in the Silicon Valley. However, I have also seen H-1Bs be used to bring over employees from companies that were acquired abroad for reallly smart people making unique products or some kind of breakthrough technology. Those are totally legitimate uses of the program. Those aren't the problems. The thing the government needs to learn is that anything that is available to companies that has a monetary reward for telling "white lies" to the government and depends on the companies "being honest" let alone understanding or agreeing with the overarching intent of the legislation -- is going to have the absolute shit abused out of it eventually.
bsder 12y ago
Just give people a Green Card after 12 months on an H-1B and a bunch of these problems all go away. This is so tiresome. All so a bunch of companies can import wage slaves to depress tech salaries.
grumpypants666 12y ago
"Fred Humphries, a vice president at Microsoft, one of the biggest users of H-1B visas, said they would have “a positive economic impact.” He continued, under his breath, "Because Microsoft wouldn't have to pay prevailing wage to even more engineers". Look - if you're outside the US you can ignore this comment but for those of us in the US, this is a screw job. Most H-1Bs are used to import cheap - ridiculously cheap - labor and displace middle class workers. Period. There are almost always people in the US that can do the work but not at the wage that the Msoft or whomever would like to pay. The "we can't find qualified workers" bullshit is just that. As if the collusion to suppress wages wasn't bad enough...
- gdc 12y ago
  Of course, you can cite a credible source that Microsoft is paying H1-B's below prevailing wage?
  - grumpypants666 12y ago
    Shit. Why not just down vote me instead of using a craptard "citation" argument. Or you can use, what do you kids call it, GOOGLE! thats it and find a metric fuckton of articles about how company after company pays H1-B workers less than market rate. Or maybe you could get some real world experience in the corporate world and learn how things work. You want another unsubstantiated claim? There is no shortage of STEM workers in America. It is used as a justification to import cheap labor to the US. Why is income inequality worse than its been in 100 years in the US? Its a war on the middle class and this is but one small portion of it. Cite that.
wittgenstein 12y ago
I haven't witnessed a process that is more stupid and bureaucratic as the H-1B-to-permanent-residence application process. The full thing is based on farce and it makes no sense whatsoever. I still cannot conceive how going through this process can be the law.
sytelus 12y ago
This is the fix for one of the two fundamental issues with H1B. The second issue is that H1B is tied to employer and you can't switch employer unless receiving side agrees to do brunt work of legal "transfer". This gives employers unchecked power to exploit H1B workers. The way this happens is employer - typically a "consulting agency" - takes cut from all payments so H1B salary is just above the minimum required. This issue allowed proliferation of mom & pop shops that would literally import people from places like India and Pakistan by dozens. With cuts of size $40K per person they would rack up millions of dollars doing absolutely nothing but sponsoring H1Bs and running the shop literally in their pajamas from their home. For the first issue of spouses not able to work, I've heard several horror stories where spouse has medical or engineering degree but is forced to sit at home doing nothing. The situation, as I recall, wasn't too bad however because such spouses eventually went on to get F1 visa for studies or H1B themselves so they can work. However path to that was extraordinarily tedious littered with lots of legal issues. I really like UK's work permit system comparatively. It allows to work anywhere in UK once you get permit and avoids employer exploitation. It automatically grants spauces also permission to work. In addition, if you live in UK on work permit for 4 years with paying taxes then you are automatically eligible for permanent residence. As sad it is, UK has taken much more freedom oriented approach for immigrants than US for years.

97 points by goshx 12y ago

As a married guy in the process of getting my H-1B visa I have to say this is a relief. It's a first step towards a more open immigration policy [1]. [1] http://www.iamimmigration.org/index.html#/get-facts/ http://www.iamimmigration.org/index.html#/get-facts/

toomuchtodo 12y ago
As a US citizen, I'm all for this. Why would we ever prevent the spouse of someone with an H-1B from working?
- dominotw 12y ago
  Given the long wait times for Green Cards. Wouldn't that effectively double the h1b quota ? H1B's have to go though long process of LCA's, ads in the newpapers, notices etc before their visa is approved. Would H4's have to go though this also? If not I can see this being abused by offshoring companies as loophole in the system. I don't see how this is 'first step' towards a better immigration policy. Current H1B system is not used in the way it is intended for the most part. Its modern day serfdom used to attract desperate educated people from poor countries. Why not give them green cards and let them actually take advantage of american system and create jobs instead of treating them like 2nd class citizens with no rights, no voice, no dreams.
  - jadc 12y ago
    Well according to the DHS site, the H1-B employee need to have started the process of becoming a permanent resident so it seems less susceptible to being abused by companies trying to bring in people from abroad and using this to double their quota.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
  - GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
    What makes you think that's not the way it's intended?
  - guyzero 12y ago
    There are only long green card wait times for people born in India and China (maybe the Philippines?). Most other people should be able to get a green card in a year or two with a decent lawyer.
    - keerthiko 12y ago
      You say "only" and then discount over half the population of the world, let alone far more than half the people trying to immigrate into the US =/
    - aeontech 12y ago
      You have a very optimistic view. Everyone I know that went through the process took between six and ten years, in large part because INS/USCIS is so backlogged. None of them were from India, China or Philippines.
      - hippich 12y ago
        I am from Belarus and got greencard within 2 years (including waster 5 months because of wrong ads post)
        dominotw 12y ago
        9 yrs and counting... :). I've lost all motivation to do anything fun/innovative with my life at this point with my 20's spent stuck in green card queue. I just feel like a resentful shell of my former self, a product of a failed nation/people.
        hippich 12y ago
        why it is taking so long for you? What category you are in? And what country you are from?
        mahyarm 12y ago
        Do you have a masters / 5 years of experience?
levosmetalo 12y ago
Then look at it in details. I didn't read the article, but in the submission title there is one suspicious word "some", which could mean anything from "almost everyone" to "almost noone" would be allowed.
a8da6b0c91d 12y ago
America does not need a more open immigration policy. America needs an immediate full immigration moratorium, lasting at least five years, while we set about fixing the system. http://vdare.com/articles/the-economic-case-for-an-immigration-moratorium http://vdare.com/articles/the-economic-case-for-an-immigrati...
- misnome 12y ago
  Yeah, Isolationism and Xenophobia are always the best of all possible solutions!
  - atwebb 12y ago
    Yeah, short and quippy statements with no content are the best of all possible reactions!
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
- bruceb 12y ago
  I would say that immigration is complex. Also there are clear differences in what different types of immigrants bring to the US. Clearly immigration helps some and hurts some. For some low wage workers clearly bringing in more low skilled and semi skilled works does hurt them. That being said grabbing the cream of the crop from around the world is mostly good for the US.
  - Roboprog 12y ago
    Problem is, H-1B is little more than an indentured servant program. If we were immigrating only the best and brightest, as free men (women), that would be a bit different.
    - jadc 12y ago
      It seems that many equate H-1B with bringing in cheap labor from abroad. The truth is if you are an international student in the US and would like to stay in the US afterwards then applying for an H1-B (presumably after being on a F-1 student visa) and then getting the permanent residency is often the best way forward.
jdcryans 12y ago
As whitenoise mentions below, it's only if your I-140 has been approved or your H1B has been extended that your spouse can work. Even if you are getting your H1B this October, and assuming that you could qualify for EB-2 in ROW and that your company starts the green card process the day you start working (more likely it's gonna take 6 months to a year), your wife still won't be able to work for another 2 years. Just getting the PERM these days can easily take a year. Also IANAL.
- jadc 12y ago
  Indeed. Sounds like it would take before your spouse could be eligible to work but it does seem to be an improvement over the current situation especially for citizens of countries with long backlogs in the permanent residency process (India, China, etc...) where getting the green card can take 10 years or sometimes more.
mnglkhn2 12y ago
The only thing now is to ask your company to sponsor your green card as soon as you can. They might want to postpone it for a few good years but it is up to you to negotiate.

Velox 12y ago

Anyone want to explain what this is? It's a paywall and I'm not american so there is no way I'm paying for a subscription to it.

dalore 12y ago
Spouses of people who are working in America on a H1-B visa (the most common visa that tech people work on) are now allowed to work themselves.
- objclxt 12y ago
  Not quite. Spouses of people who are working in America on a H1-B visa and have applied for a green card or extended their visa are allowed to work themselves. That is a much smaller pool than people on H-1B visas.
  - goshx 12y ago
    Still not quite, because they are not automatically allowed to work. They have to request employment authorization and who knows what other criteria may be imposed at that time.
    - cesarbs 12y ago
      AFAIK obtaining an EAD is quite straightforward.
whitenoise 12y ago
The DHS press release[1] has more details. Link to the proposed rule on reginfo.gov[2]. In short, this rule allows spouses of H1B holders to work, provided the H1B holder has an approved I-140 or has their H1B extended beyond 6 year limit under AC21. Notice that this rule is very specific and does not cover all H1B holders. [1]http://www.dhs.gov/news/2014/05/06/dhs-announces-proposals-attract-and-retain-highly-skilled-immigrants http://www.dhs.gov/news/2014/05/06/dhs-announces-proposals-a... [2]http://www.reginfo.gov/public/do/eAgendaViewRule?pubId=201310&RIN=1615-AB92 http://www.reginfo.gov/public/do/eAgendaViewRule?pubId=20131... EDIT: Grammer

vijayr 12y ago

Paywall :( http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/news-wire/2014/05/06/should-spouses-of-h-1b-visa-holders-be-allowed-to.html http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/news-wire/2014/...

alexhektor 12y ago
google the headline. WSJ paywall has been discussed here as well for further information.
hippich 12y ago
if using Google Chrome, prepend link with "cache:" and here you go. But you are right - there are other news sources with this information.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

lmg643 12y ago

It sounds perverse to say this, but the first thought I have is all the marriages that will be specifically arranged to take advantage of this. Seems like a clever loophole to increase the number of visas, while casting it as a benevolent change that makes it easier to retain talent. I'm not a big fan of letting employers make immigration decisions. There's too much of an incentive to try to get low cost labor, which subsidizes stupid business practices. Sure, employers could invest in automation and smarter operating procedures, or we can just plug the hole as cheaply as possible. H1Bs are unlikely to be big entrepreneurial catalysts because they are effectively tied to their employer and in a tricky legal framework. Honestly - I thought that was the whole point of the visa. And not to too much of a snob here, but the three immigrants mentioned in the Fortune 500 were all graduates of elite american universities (Andy Grove - Berkeley, Jerry Yang, Sergey - Stanford), which proves mostly nothing about the visa program. I think a much better policy for America is to allow the top 50-100 universities by US News to determine who is qualified to enter. those measures are not perfect, but it is rate-limited by the size of their degree programs and they have an incentive to keep the quality of admitted applicants high.

JoeAltmaier 12y ago
How about letting people decide for themselves? Not corporations, not universities. If people get married and get jobs, success! What other measure is needed?
shas3 12y ago
In the current H1B system, it doesn't matter if the applicant is from an elite US university. If you have to work in the US, and if you are not a permanent resident or US citizen, you go through, for the most part, the exact same H1B system as everyone else. The only difference is, if you have a masters or higher degree, your H1B visa processing is done through a separate quota. In today's system, unless you are a PhD with many publications in prestigious conferences/journals, etc., straight out of college (i.e., BS or MS), permanent residency is a long and highly bureaucratic process for most applicants. So essentially, your spouse cannot work till you get a green card. Here is an interesting story about an early Google employee highlighting this problem: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/12/business/12immig.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/12/business/12immig.html?page... Also, in 2014, people are not as desperate to live and work in the US as you think, to arrange marriages for this sole purpose. Further, this rule-change applies to that subset of H1B workers who are on track to get green cards. Employment-based green cards could take even 10 years to be processed because of purely administrative and bureaucratic delays. Besides, the H1B workers affected by this rule are usually highly skilled and are likely to have similar quality of life if they lived and worked in their home country. When you take this into account, the loophole-theory that you talk about jumps into the realm of paranoid conspiracy theory. (IANAL)

psuter 12y ago

I love how these "proposals to attract and retain highly skilled immigrants" do not cover O-1 holders, the "individuals with extraordinary ability or achievement". (I'm guessing because O-1 visas are not dual-intent.) In any case, certainly a step in the right direction.

dublinben 12y ago
I don't think the government wants to advertise how much easier O-1 visas can be obtained by celebrities and models, than other visas can be obtained by scientists and engineers.
lachyg 12y ago
Hm? O-1 is dual intent. Source: 8 C.F.R. 214.2(o) (13) “Effect of approval of a permanent labor certification or filing of a preference petition on O classification. The approval of a permanent labor certification or the filing of a preference petition for an alien shall not be a basis for denying an O–1 petition, a request to extend such a petition, or the alien's application for admission, change of status, or extension of stay. The alien may legitimately come to the United States for a temporary period as an O–1 nonimmigrant and depart voluntarily at the end of his or her authorized stay and, at the same time, lawfully seek to become a permanent resident of the United States.”
technotony 12y ago
Actually they do. The last paragraph says that they are making EB1 visas (which is the green card version of the O1) easier to get: Another revision announced Tuesday will ease requirements for applicants of an EB-1 work visa, which is issued to researchers and professors with extraordinary ability. To qualify, applicants for the visas currently must submit awards, scholarly articles and a host of evidence to prove their outstanding recognition in and contribution to a particular field. The new rule will allow applicants to present comparable evidence that is acceptable, the official said. For entrepreneurs this is the most exciting development in these proposals as it should make the path to getting a green card easier.

makmanalp 12y ago

It's good news that change is happening. The bad news is that it's only after 6 years of residence: http://lofgren.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=379143 http://lofgren.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID...

goshx 12y ago
Not only those [1]: "Eligible individuals would include H-4 dependent spouses of principal H-1B workers who: Are the beneficiaries of an approved Form I-140, Immigrant Petition for Alien Worker; or Have been granted an extension of their authorized period of stay in the United States under the American Competitiveness in the Twenty-first Century Act of 2000 (AC21) as amended by the 21st Century Department of Justice Appropriations Authorization Act. AC21 permits H-1B workers seeking lawful permanent residence to work and remain in the United States beyond the six-year limit." [1] http://www.dhs.gov/news/2014/05/06/dhs-announces-proposals-attract-and-retain-highly-skilled-immigrants http://www.dhs.gov/news/2014/05/06/dhs-announces-proposals-a...
tsenkov 12y ago
I don't get it... In the original article it says: >"Spouses of H-1B visa holders being sponsored for a green card by their employers will be allowed to work in the U.S." If you are "being" sponsored, this means you are "in the process", not after you got the green card. As much as I know, a company can sponsor H1-B holders right from the start of their contract (although, probably not all of them do so) for getting a green card. Either this statement from the original post is wrong, OR the interpretation in the house.gov is wrong, OR I'm missing something (probably & most-likely). Does anyone have a clear answer?
- hpagey 12y ago
  Technically speaking H1b process and green card are two separate things. A company can sponsor for green card without sponsoring H1b. But, this is how the process typically works, Step 1) Company sponsors H1b Step 2) Employee works at the company for say like a year Step 3) Company starts the green card process and files labor. Step 4) Labor is approved and employee receives a priority date. Step 5) Company applies for i-140 . Step 6) i-140 is approved and priority date is now set. Step 7) Employee keeps on renewing H1b until priority date becomes current. Step 8) When priority date becomes current, employee along with its dependents can apply for i-485 Adjustment of status. Step 9) Employee and its dependents received EAD cards and Advance payroll ( for traveling purpose. Step 10) USCIS starts processing i-485 applications (each dependent gets its own application) and starts adjucating them. Step 11) USCIS asks for Visa number once adjucation is done. Each dependent needs its own visa number. Step 12) If visa number is available when its requested green card is issue, else application remains pending until visa numbers become available. Now, the above mentioned rule will allow spouses to obtain work authorization from Step 6. Previously, they had to wait till Step 8 to obtain it.

logfromblammo 12y ago

I don't understand the overt, superficial purpose of H-1B visas. If you have a company that needs one, and a foreigner who qualifies for it, why would it not be better for the public in every possible circumstance to just grant that foreign person an unconditional work visa and automatically enroll them for consideration for permanent residency? And then I put my foil hat on, and the voices tell me that the H-1B program must not be for the benefit of the public, and that both the American workers and the foreigners with visas are being exploited for the benefit of the corporate sponsors. The only benefit I see here to essentially doubling the number of available guest workers under H-1B is that the affected spouses are free to change employers and to quit from unsuitable employment without being deported. That makes them better off than the person that actually has the sponsorship!

refurb 12y ago
The reason for the temporary nature of H1-Bs is that it's an attempt to provide a responsive immigration policy. Just because you can't find a US citizen to fill a role now, doesn't mean that 10 years from now you won't be. If 10 years from now a pool of qualified US workers becomes available, the H1-B approval would need to be repeated, the labor certification would fail and the immigrant would not be allowed to fill the role. I'm certainly not saying it's the best way to handle it, but that's the logic behind the current rules.
- logfromblammo 12y ago
  If you make the worker a citizen, you can be absolutely certain that a citizen can fill the role, both now and ten years in the future. Otherwise, you are finding a different person to fill the role in ten years, and that person will be competing with someone in a foreign country that has 10 more years of experience.
  - refurb 12y ago
    And if you make the worker a citizen and the industry crashes, you've got another person on social assistance. If they are on a non-immigrant visa, you send them home.

dang 12y ago

We changed the url from [1] since the paywall is a notch lower. 1. http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303417104579544550269535992 http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000142405270230341710...

datacog 12y ago

This proposal is ridiculous! They are offering the possibility to work after 6 years of H1B or in early phases of Green card process. - Their intent doesnt seem to be providing Spouses with opportunity to work, but instead prevent dropouts of those people who get fed up of the process and either go back home or apply for Canada PR. I know few such people myself - Important point: During the 4-6 years when the spouse cannot legally work, either they have given up on their career or have already signed up for a graduate program in order to get an F1. It is basically useless to offer jobs to someone after 6 years of being jobless and they have very very less competitive advantage unless they have a made a productive use of time by doing stuff such as freelancing and pro-bono work. - Dependents of L1 visa (L2) are allowed to work on EAD, I dont understand why it is so complex for H4's. - Another effect of this would also mean that the govt might not consider increasing the CAP for H1B next year, but rather try to retain the exising H1B's and try to get their green card done. So, although this change seems optimistic, it isnt that helpful (I myself was very excited after I first saw this)

tn13 12y ago
People with L1 can not change their jobs. They also supposed to be transferred employees and not temporary workers.
jdcryans 12y ago
I don't think it's ridiculous, and the current 97k H4s that will now be able to work are probably pretty happy about it [1]. Regarding the L2s being able to get their EADs but not the H4s, keep in mind that the latter are not the only ones in this situation, it's the same thing with TN/TD. And then you have the E-3 spouses (Australia) who _can_ get their EADs[2] :) I think that the problem is that each visa/work status was created separately, so it's more than just a case of "since it works for this one, why doesn't it work for this other one". I agree with you that this current situation is ridiculous but I'm happy that they start addressing those issues, even if piece by piece. 1. http://recode.net/2014/05/06/congrats-h-1b-spouses-you-can-get-back-to-work-soon/ http://recode.net/2014/05/06/congrats-h-1b-spouses-you-can-g... 2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-3_visa http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-3_visa

tn13 12y ago

The more I read about H1B laws more I find it ridiculous. US immigration laws are the best example of how policy making runs based on fabricated fears rather than pragmatism. If a spouse is in Us for 6 years on H4, she is essentially sitting ducks all those years not doing anything. No one will employ such a person. You cant even run a blog and earn through ad-sense on H4. Neither can you work remotely for a foreign company. It is beyond me why such law exists in first place. People from Mexico can jump over the fence come to US and work while the president goes out of his way to ensure that these people can get US taxpayer's money but my wife who is engineering graduate with over 8 years of experience working for American companies in India can not work in US because it takes away jobs of American people!

chimeracoder 12y ago
> It is beyond me why such law exists in first place. People from Mexico can jump over the fence come to US and work while the president goes out of his way to ensure that these people can get US taxpayer's money but my wife who is engineering graduate with over 8 years of experience working for American companies in India can not work in US because it takes away jobs of American people! You just answered your own question. The people "jumping the fence" (as you put it) are often taking low-paying (even below minimum wage) jobs that US citizens don't want, so it's less problematic politically[0]. On the other hand, there are a lot of citizens who would love whatever job your wife would get with 8 years of engineering experience, so it's more politically challenging to give that job to a non-citizen, even if she is undeniably qualified for it. [0] In fact, some industries rely on illegal immigrants and/or illegal migrant workers as sources of labor below minimum wage (see: agriculture[1]), so they have an incentive to enable this practice (or at least turn a blind eye), since they can't rely on the legal resources to provide them labor at that price. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reefer_Madness_%282003_book%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reefer_Madness_%282003_book%29 (Don't be fooled by the title - the chapter I'm referring to is about production of strawberries).
- tn13 12y ago
  I agree that people generally do not understand the economic principles behind all this and rather fall prey to the absurd arguments such as "there are fixed number of jobs" to compete for or "some jobs Americans are not willing to do always".

diogenescynic 12y ago

I've got to add my experience to this: The problem with H-1Bs is the vast majority of them are abusing the system. I've seen it firsthand working at one of the top four global immigration law firms. Most H-1Bs are gaming the system. They lie about their title, experience, and work location to get a lower prevailing wage. For example, they say they are going to work in Iowa and then work in Boston and on and on. Most (over 80%) of the H-1s go to outsourcing companies like Cognizant, Tata (TCS), Infosys, Symphony etc. Their entire business model is based on the fact that it will be cheaper to obtain and H-1 than to hire locally. This is fundamentally fucked up. Most H-1s are coming from diploma mills or have no education at all and use 'experience evaluations' which are another rubber stamp service. It's not truly high-skilled labor. If they were high-skilled they'd just apply as an O-1 applicant. H-1s are effectively apprentice engineers. They usually do not have any specialization--so why are they needed? To keep wages flat. It's a corporate handout. Look at how STEM salaries have stagnated: http://spectrum.ieee.org/at-work/education/the-stem-crisis-is-a-myth http://spectrum.ieee.org/at-work/education/the-stem-crisis-i... But really, H-1s aren't nearly as bad as the L-1s. L-1s have no prevailing wage and no education requirements. Fortune500s bring over L-1s and keep them on foreign payroll (for up to 6 years) and then can send them abroad for a year and bring them back for another 6. I've seen L-1s coming to work for major oil companies where the applicant has 20 years of experience and a Master's degree--making $15,000/year. The problem with freedom of labour and open borders is that it's usually just one way. How many Americans are going to work abroad in India? How many Canadians are going to work in China? It's feel-good rhetoric but ultimately it's just an excuse to flood richer nations with workers from poorer nations. I'd be all for this system if there was some kind of tit-for-tat program where India gets as many visas given to them as they give to us proportionally--but it will never happen. If STEM and engineers are so in demand why have their wages stagnated? Why has the average income actually dropped in Silicon Valley? There's a disconnect in what they claim is happening and what is really happening. The other problem I see with H-1Bs is the way they connect to Green Card/Permanent Residency. Once you file your I-140, you can stay on your H-1 indefinitely. Your H-1 doesn't have to match your I-140 either, so you can be employed as something lowly like Customer Support Engineer and then file the I-140 for a "Senior Data Scientist" or whatever and then drag out the Green Card process to keep their prevailing wage down. Oh and guess what? The companies and the law firms coordinate to do this. Why? Because once the I-140 is filed the employee is locked into that company and they can hold the Green Card out as a carrot and get a loyal obedient worker. It's a sick exploitive system. It's bad for everyone but the corporate executives who are getting a bonus for meeting their budgets. Moreover, corporations also coordinate mass-layoffs and filing for Green Cards. They will file for hundreds, sometimes thousands of Green Cards, then wait to announce the layoffs once the I-140s are filed. If they did it the reverse they wouldn't be allowed to file for the I-140s. I saw this happen monthly in the Silicon Valley. However, I have also seen H-1Bs be used to bring over employees from companies that were acquired abroad for reallly smart people making unique products or some kind of breakthrough technology. Those are totally legitimate uses of the program. Those aren't the problems. The thing the government needs to learn is that anything that is available to companies that has a monetary reward for telling "white lies" to the government and depends on the companies "being honest" let alone understanding or agreeing with the overarching intent of the legislation -- is going to have the absolute shit abused out of it eventually.

bsder 12y ago

Just give people a Green Card after 12 months on an H-1B and a bunch of these problems all go away. This is so tiresome. All so a bunch of companies can import wage slaves to depress tech salaries.

grumpypants666 12y ago

"Fred Humphries, a vice president at Microsoft, one of the biggest users of H-1B visas, said they would have “a positive economic impact.” He continued, under his breath, "Because Microsoft wouldn't have to pay prevailing wage to even more engineers". Look - if you're outside the US you can ignore this comment but for those of us in the US, this is a screw job. Most H-1Bs are used to import cheap - ridiculously cheap - labor and displace middle class workers. Period. There are almost always people in the US that can do the work but not at the wage that the Msoft or whomever would like to pay. The "we can't find qualified workers" bullshit is just that. As if the collusion to suppress wages wasn't bad enough...

gdc 12y ago
Of course, you can cite a credible source that Microsoft is paying H1-B's below prevailing wage?
- grumpypants666 12y ago
  Shit. Why not just down vote me instead of using a craptard "citation" argument. Or you can use, what do you kids call it, GOOGLE! thats it and find a metric fuckton of articles about how company after company pays H1-B workers less than market rate. Or maybe you could get some real world experience in the corporate world and learn how things work. You want another unsubstantiated claim? There is no shortage of STEM workers in America. It is used as a justification to import cheap labor to the US. Why is income inequality worse than its been in 100 years in the US? Its a war on the middle class and this is but one small portion of it. Cite that.

wittgenstein 12y ago

I haven't witnessed a process that is more stupid and bureaucratic as the H-1B-to-permanent-residence application process. The full thing is based on farce and it makes no sense whatsoever. I still cannot conceive how going through this process can be the law.

sytelus 12y ago

This is the fix for one of the two fundamental issues with H1B. The second issue is that H1B is tied to employer and you can't switch employer unless receiving side agrees to do brunt work of legal "transfer". This gives employers unchecked power to exploit H1B workers. The way this happens is employer - typically a "consulting agency" - takes cut from all payments so H1B salary is just above the minimum required. This issue allowed proliferation of mom & pop shops that would literally import people from places like India and Pakistan by dozens. With cuts of size $40K per person they would rack up millions of dollars doing absolutely nothing but sponsoring H1Bs and running the shop literally in their pajamas from their home. For the first issue of spouses not able to work, I've heard several horror stories where spouse has medical or engineering degree but is forced to sit at home doing nothing. The situation, as I recall, wasn't too bad however because such spouses eventually went on to get F1 visa for studies or H1B themselves so they can work. However path to that was extraordinarily tedious littered with lots of legal issues. I really like UK's work permit system comparatively. It allows to work anywhere in UK once you get permit and avoids employer exploitation. It automatically grants spauces also permission to work. In addition, if you live in UK on work permit for 4 years with paying taxes then you are automatically eligible for permanent residence. As sad it is, UK has taken much more freedom oriented approach for immigrants than US for years.