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The response doesn't seem convincing. By this standards he's not supposed to work for any corporation. I am a Google fanboy, I agree, and this might skew my o

by sidcool 13y ago

The response doesn't seem convincing. By this standards he's not supposed to work for any corporation. I am a Google fanboy, I agree, and this might skew my opinion, but I am always open to debate.

joeblau 13y ago
He may make enough money freelancing that he doesn't need to work for any corporation. If you're good at what you do in the Software space, you can command very strong 6 figure salaries and only have to "work" part of the year to maintain a very comfortable lifestyle.
- nutjob2 13y ago
  Who do you think freelancers work for, exactly?
  - joeblau 13y ago
    I only freelance for companies smaller than 15 people. Like the other person said, it could be anybody from an individual to a small team to a large corporation.
  - muyuu 13y ago
    They can also work for individuals, startups, partnerships etc which don't need to be incorporated (at least not in my country).
chaired 13y ago
He could work for a corp that is small enough that it still seems like it is made of decent human beings. My interview experience with G was more than enough to ensure I never seek to work there again. And, the trauma of having all my media accounts force-Hoovered into G+ left me little choice but to revoke the last little bit of admiration I had for this once-cool-as-beans company.
harshreality 13y ago
Agreed. The response seems to conflate a bunch of different things and pretend it's all Google's fault. Snowden didn't blow the whistle on Google. Google can't control what the NSA is tapping or what court orders it gets. Maybe some people inside Google knew about inter-datacenter taps and didn't do anything about it, but once all of Google became aware, they started encrypting those links. Automatic indexing of email contents leaves Google open to subpoenas for information about that indexed content, but the emails would be there to subpoena either way. I don't understand the problem. What has Google ever done to help TLAs wiretap anyone?
- Apachez 13y ago
  Encryption is worthless if you have handed over the cipherkeys... but I guess this might fool some of the public at least.
  - prolde 13y ago
    Encryption can be done in a matter where the private keys are stored in the user's end, making it far harder for the likes of the NSA to break the encryption. One example of this is Jitsi's implementation of Off The Recording chatting. When using an XMPP server through Jitsi, the NSA may be able to read the cipher text sent but not the plaintext because the keys are stored on the chat participants computers. Not even the chat server owners know the chat plaintext.
  - thefreeman 13y ago
    Doesn't Perfect Forward Secrecy protect against that? I am not sure if Google have implemented it but according to the Wikipedia entry: This means that the compromise of one message cannot lead to the compromise of others, and also that there is not a single secret value which can lead to the compromise of multiple messages.
- politician 13y ago
  Occasionally, I wonder if HN sells data on which way we vote for articles and comments. I guess we'll never know since they could be under an NSL.
erddojo 13y ago
People tend to forget we are Google's product. Not their customers. Advertisers are their customers. Plenty of tech companies don't sell souls for a living, therefore by working there you may not be required to also sacrifice yours for a paycheck. Flip side; there are those who believe ads aren't evil. Google builds a lot of interesting tech. It's probably a great place for engineers. But one look at their financial reporting and it's still evident that advertising pays the bills.
- Oletros 13y ago
  The products is ad space, not the users
  - Apachez 13y ago
    This pic comes to mind: http://www.lolwithme.org/wp-content/uploads/SocialMediaAndYou.jpg http://www.lolwithme.org/wp-content/uploads/SocialMediaAndYo...
    - Oletros 13y ago
      Funny pic, but it is the same wrong claim
  - erddojo 13y ago
    If the product was the ad space, Google would be out of business. The product is the personal data Google packages up and sells to advertisers.
    - hahainternet 13y ago
      > The product is the personal data Google packages up and sells to advertisers. What shit, show me how I can buy some. Show me some that someone has bought.
      - fennecfoxen 13y ago
        It's a rental.
gnaffle 13y ago
I think the big problem with Google is their obsessive compulsiveness in collecting data. Searches, chat logs, locations, everything is collected because storage is cheap. The collect it to improve their services, sure, to better target their advertising, of course. And Google may strive to protect that data and not share it with others. However, all this data makes Google a gold mine for governments, and giving out the data is not really in their control. There are other companies that have business models don't necessitate all this data collection. When these companies have to cooperate with governments, there's a limit to the amount of useful information they can hand out about their customers.

by sidcool 13y ago

The response doesn't seem convincing. By this standards he's not supposed to work for any corporation. I am a Google fanboy, I agree, and this might skew my opinion, but I am always open to debate.

joeblau 13y ago

He may make enough money freelancing that he doesn't need to work for any corporation. If you're good at what you do in the Software space, you can command very strong 6 figure salaries and only have to "work" part of the year to maintain a very comfortable lifestyle.

nutjob2 13y ago
Who do you think freelancers work for, exactly?
- joeblau 13y ago
  I only freelance for companies smaller than 15 people. Like the other person said, it could be anybody from an individual to a small team to a large corporation.
- muyuu 13y ago
  They can also work for individuals, startups, partnerships etc which don't need to be incorporated (at least not in my country).

chaired 13y ago

He could work for a corp that is small enough that it still seems like it is made of decent human beings. My interview experience with G was more than enough to ensure I never seek to work there again. And, the trauma of having all my media accounts force-Hoovered into G+ left me little choice but to revoke the last little bit of admiration I had for this once-cool-as-beans company.

harshreality 13y ago

Agreed. The response seems to conflate a bunch of different things and pretend it's all Google's fault. Snowden didn't blow the whistle on Google. Google can't control what the NSA is tapping or what court orders it gets. Maybe some people inside Google knew about inter-datacenter taps and didn't do anything about it, but once all of Google became aware, they started encrypting those links. Automatic indexing of email contents leaves Google open to subpoenas for information about that indexed content, but the emails would be there to subpoena either way. I don't understand the problem. What has Google ever done to help TLAs wiretap anyone?

Apachez 13y ago
Encryption is worthless if you have handed over the cipherkeys... but I guess this might fool some of the public at least.
- prolde 13y ago
  Encryption can be done in a matter where the private keys are stored in the user's end, making it far harder for the likes of the NSA to break the encryption. One example of this is Jitsi's implementation of Off The Recording chatting. When using an XMPP server through Jitsi, the NSA may be able to read the cipher text sent but not the plaintext because the keys are stored on the chat participants computers. Not even the chat server owners know the chat plaintext.
- thefreeman 13y ago
  Doesn't Perfect Forward Secrecy protect against that? I am not sure if Google have implemented it but according to the Wikipedia entry: This means that the compromise of one message cannot lead to the compromise of others, and also that there is not a single secret value which can lead to the compromise of multiple messages.
politician 13y ago
Occasionally, I wonder if HN sells data on which way we vote for articles and comments. I guess we'll never know since they could be under an NSL.

erddojo 13y ago

People tend to forget we are Google's product. Not their customers. Advertisers are their customers. Plenty of tech companies don't sell souls for a living, therefore by working there you may not be required to also sacrifice yours for a paycheck. Flip side; there are those who believe ads aren't evil. Google builds a lot of interesting tech. It's probably a great place for engineers. But one look at their financial reporting and it's still evident that advertising pays the bills.

Oletros 13y ago
The products is ad space, not the users
- Apachez 13y ago
  This pic comes to mind: http://www.lolwithme.org/wp-content/uploads/SocialMediaAndYou.jpg http://www.lolwithme.org/wp-content/uploads/SocialMediaAndYo...
  - Oletros 13y ago
    Funny pic, but it is the same wrong claim
- erddojo 13y ago
  If the product was the ad space, Google would be out of business. The product is the personal data Google packages up and sells to advertisers.
  - hahainternet 13y ago
    > The product is the personal data Google packages up and sells to advertisers. What shit, show me how I can buy some. Show me some that someone has bought.
    - fennecfoxen 13y ago
      It's a rental.

gnaffle 13y ago

I think the big problem with Google is their obsessive compulsiveness in collecting data. Searches, chat logs, locations, everything is collected because storage is cheap. The collect it to improve their services, sure, to better target their advertising, of course. And Google may strive to protect that data and not share it with others. However, all this data makes Google a gold mine for governments, and giving out the data is not really in their control. There are other companies that have business models don't necessitate all this data collection. When these companies have to cooperate with governments, there's a limit to the amount of useful information they can hand out about their customers.