5 ms·

As the OP I firmly believe that this is more than just a distraction. I don't have a ton of code and a framework that I am leaning on. I am leaning only on a

As the OP I firmly believe that this is more than just a distraction. I don't have a ton of code and a framework that I am leaning on. I am leaning only on a practice. And that practice is to write functional code and then reap its many benefits. One of those benefits is being able to see my running programs change in real time. In the ClojureScript community we passed a threshold where we can now program interactively, I am simply pointing out that occurance.

seanmcdirmid 12y ago
As any small talker would tell you, functional programming isn't the only way to reap these benefits; also see the videos linked in: http://research.microsoft.com/pubs/211297/managedtime.pdf http://research.microsoft.com/pubs/211297/managedtime.pdf The trick is not to avoid state, but rather have a sane relationship with it.
pjmlp 12y ago
> One of those benefits is being able to see my running programs change in real time. Those benefits were all available in the Xerox PARC systems: - Smalltalk - Interlisp - Mesa/Cedar But thanks to many mistakes, the world got UNIX instead and now newer generations are rediscovering what interactive coding really means.
- enen 12y ago
  Could you elaborate. I'm curious why interactive programming isn't more popular.
  - pjmlp 12y ago
    Most likely because: - Xerox PARC systems were too expensive for most companies. Alan Kay says if you want the future today, you must be willing to build the hardware from 15 years in the future - The commercial attempts to bring Smalltalk and Lisp into the market failed, mainly due to mismanagement and the high prices - The first set of UNIX clones start spreading into the industry, were much less expensive and good enough - Attempts to replicate Smalltalk and Lisp interactive experience in common early 80's hardware failed short to provide the same experience as in the Dorado and Star systems. - Younger developer generations educated in UNIX and microcomputer OS never experienced such systems - Probably something else
    - enen 12y ago
      Thanks, that's an interesting topic
      - pjmlp 12y ago
        You might find these videos interesting, cross linked from another discussion. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7565751 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7565751 These systems were working in the late 70's, early 80's as personal workstations. Now compare with what many developers still use today.

seanmcdirmid 12y ago

As any small talker would tell you, functional programming isn't the only way to reap these benefits; also see the videos linked in: http://research.microsoft.com/pubs/211297/managedtime.pdf http://research.microsoft.com/pubs/211297/managedtime.pdf The trick is not to avoid state, but rather have a sane relationship with it.

pjmlp 12y ago

> One of those benefits is being able to see my running programs change in real time. Those benefits were all available in the Xerox PARC systems: - Smalltalk - Interlisp - Mesa/Cedar But thanks to many mistakes, the world got UNIX instead and now newer generations are rediscovering what interactive coding really means.

enen 12y ago
Could you elaborate. I'm curious why interactive programming isn't more popular.
- pjmlp 12y ago
  Most likely because: - Xerox PARC systems were too expensive for most companies. Alan Kay says if you want the future today, you must be willing to build the hardware from 15 years in the future - The commercial attempts to bring Smalltalk and Lisp into the market failed, mainly due to mismanagement and the high prices - The first set of UNIX clones start spreading into the industry, were much less expensive and good enough - Attempts to replicate Smalltalk and Lisp interactive experience in common early 80's hardware failed short to provide the same experience as in the Dorado and Star systems. - Younger developer generations educated in UNIX and microcomputer OS never experienced such systems - Probably something else
  - enen 12y ago
    Thanks, that's an interesting topic
    - pjmlp 12y ago
      You might find these videos interesting, cross linked from another discussion. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7565751 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7565751 These systems were working in the late 70's, early 80's as personal workstations. Now compare with what many developers still use today.