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"The largest technology stock offering in history is looming, but few in Silicon Valley seem to care." Zero comments on this article after an hour on the front

by jobu 13y ago

"The largest technology stock offering in history is looming, but few in Silicon Valley seem to care." Zero comments on this article after an hour on the front page of HN seems to prove the author's point.

opendais 13y ago
I doubt many people on HN check that frequently during the work day. I know I generally only check a couple times. I'd say the reason most don't care much is there is massive cultural differences in the way the US and Chinese markets operate. Successful US companies have failed to penetrate China and many probably expect the reverse to be true as well. How many people here buy from http://www.alibaba.com/ http://www.alibaba.com/ despite it being 15 years old?
- AdamTReineke 13y ago
  I've looked many times but haven't bought yet, mostly because they're across the Pacific and shipping times would be annoying.
  - shousper 13y ago
    lol, try living in Australia.
    - seanmcdirmid 13y ago
      Why can't we just create an underwater pneumatic pipeline for shipping easily to Australia?
- sheltgor 13y ago
  You'd be quite surprised. Alibaba.com itself isn't a retailer in the same sense as amazon. Pretty much used for bulk goods, importing, manufacturing, and outsourcing. I know a lot of startups, in fact, that in the early stage source through Alibaba. The one I work at, for instance, gets our steady supply of infrared pens through Alibaba, but there are a lot of examples. I even had a friend back in high school who made a small fortune (relatively speaking) importing random things through it that he would sell at a tremendous markup here... Alibaba does, though, run other sites as mentioned in the article that are more along the lines of an eBay or Amazon and you would be right that those haven't caught on outside of China.
- Afforess 13y ago
  I've bought exactly one thing, a laptop computer internal fan that had died in a cheap laptop I had. I had the choice of ebay or alibaba and I don't trust ebay merchants these days. Not much to say. Shipping overseas is slow. I would have preferred amazon if it was an option.
- makomk 13y ago
  I buy stuff semi-regularly from aliexpress.com which is their consumer-facing site. alibaba.com's their business-to-business site - useful if you're in the business of stocking and selling physical goods, but I doubt many people people on HN are.
- seanmcdirmid 13y ago
  Amazon works well in china and we use it often (alibaba taobao also, but not so much these days). Many internet companies that fail in china (Facebook, Twitter, YouTube) do well in other open Chinese style markets (Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore)...they are only failing in mainland because the government doesn't allow them to operate. There is no such restriction for Chinese companies wanting to operate in the west.
  - rtpg 13y ago
    I feel like the implication is that there won't be much difficulty for Chinesse mega-services to have some success in the US as well, but the Japanese experience (especially Rakuten trying so hard to buy their ways into markets and not really succeeding) seems to show that there's probably other aspects too.
  - rahimnathwani 13y ago
    Is it true that the government doesn't allow them to operate? My understanding is that, if these companies were to operate within China's laws and regulations, particularly as they relate to censorship of user-generated content, they would be allowed to operate. Sina (a 'Chinese' internet company) was recently the target of regulatory action (suspension of a key licence) because they fell foul of those censorship laws. Action isn't targeted solely at non-Chinese companies. However, non-Chinese companies are less likely to want to comply (either due to the cost/complexity of doing so, or because to do so would be at odds with their core mission). As an example of a company with a different approach, look at LinkedIn, which recently launched a Chinese interface to target mainland Chinese users.
    - seanmcdirmid 13y ago
      The government doesn't acknowledge that the services are actually blocked in China. If you ask your ISP why Facebook isn't available, they'll tell you "it must be Facebook's fault." The government hasn't declared them illegal, so understanding how to make them "legal" is quite impossible. The government selectively cracksdown on Internet companies when it wants to make a point, and turns blind eyes on others, arbitrarily, porn is quite common in the China market and very available...and even necessary for these companies to make a profit. They just choose one to slap on the wrists occasionally to make sure they don't get out of control. In contrast, you'll find less porn on Facebook, G+, and YouTube then you will on RenRen, YouKu, Sina, and so on. Heck, WeChat is well known as the hookup app (so my wife won't let me go near it). But then this is similar to how prostitution is ubiquitous in the PRC vs. how it is very much underground in the US. How would a legalistic American company operate in such an environment? China is not yet very much governed by rule of (impartial, fairly applied) law, so it is just impossible to do much without being able to live in the grayness (as most Chinese internet companies are able to do!).
bitcrusher 13y ago
I think part of the reason is that the story is being positioned incorrectly. Yahoo owns 24% of Alibaba, so it's not China vs. Silicon Valley, or any such nonsense. It's definitely news worthy that they're going to IPO here in the US and they have a HUGE market in China/Asia... Even so, will they be able to crack the US consumer market? Time will tell, but so far, their efforts haven't born fruit. They have a stealth 'target vertical' shopping experience that's developing right now in the Bay Area, however, they're significantly behind schedule, having trouble integrating teams from several locals and their product is dubiously "useful" at this stage of the game. All of that being said, eventually they'll find some combination to get a foothold of the US market and it will be interesting to see what happens then as competition heats up.
- rahimnathwani 13y ago
  "They have a stealth 'target vertical' shopping experience that's developing right now in the Bay Area" Can you provide any more information on this, or pointers to sources? I'm v curious.

by jobu 13y ago

opendais 13y ago

I doubt many people on HN check that frequently during the work day. I know I generally only check a couple times. I'd say the reason most don't care much is there is massive cultural differences in the way the US and Chinese markets operate. Successful US companies have failed to penetrate China and many probably expect the reverse to be true as well. How many people here buy from http://www.alibaba.com/ http://www.alibaba.com/ despite it being 15 years old?

AdamTReineke 13y ago
I've looked many times but haven't bought yet, mostly because they're across the Pacific and shipping times would be annoying.
- shousper 13y ago
  lol, try living in Australia.
  - seanmcdirmid 13y ago
    Why can't we just create an underwater pneumatic pipeline for shipping easily to Australia?
sheltgor 13y ago
You'd be quite surprised. Alibaba.com itself isn't a retailer in the same sense as amazon. Pretty much used for bulk goods, importing, manufacturing, and outsourcing. I know a lot of startups, in fact, that in the early stage source through Alibaba. The one I work at, for instance, gets our steady supply of infrared pens through Alibaba, but there are a lot of examples. I even had a friend back in high school who made a small fortune (relatively speaking) importing random things through it that he would sell at a tremendous markup here... Alibaba does, though, run other sites as mentioned in the article that are more along the lines of an eBay or Amazon and you would be right that those haven't caught on outside of China.
Afforess 13y ago
I've bought exactly one thing, a laptop computer internal fan that had died in a cheap laptop I had. I had the choice of ebay or alibaba and I don't trust ebay merchants these days. Not much to say. Shipping overseas is slow. I would have preferred amazon if it was an option.
makomk 13y ago
I buy stuff semi-regularly from aliexpress.com which is their consumer-facing site. alibaba.com's their business-to-business site - useful if you're in the business of stocking and selling physical goods, but I doubt many people people on HN are.
seanmcdirmid 13y ago
Amazon works well in china and we use it often (alibaba taobao also, but not so much these days). Many internet companies that fail in china (Facebook, Twitter, YouTube) do well in other open Chinese style markets (Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore)...they are only failing in mainland because the government doesn't allow them to operate. There is no such restriction for Chinese companies wanting to operate in the west.
- rtpg 13y ago
  I feel like the implication is that there won't be much difficulty for Chinesse mega-services to have some success in the US as well, but the Japanese experience (especially Rakuten trying so hard to buy their ways into markets and not really succeeding) seems to show that there's probably other aspects too.
- rahimnathwani 13y ago
  Is it true that the government doesn't allow them to operate? My understanding is that, if these companies were to operate within China's laws and regulations, particularly as they relate to censorship of user-generated content, they would be allowed to operate. Sina (a 'Chinese' internet company) was recently the target of regulatory action (suspension of a key licence) because they fell foul of those censorship laws. Action isn't targeted solely at non-Chinese companies. However, non-Chinese companies are less likely to want to comply (either due to the cost/complexity of doing so, or because to do so would be at odds with their core mission). As an example of a company with a different approach, look at LinkedIn, which recently launched a Chinese interface to target mainland Chinese users.
  - seanmcdirmid 13y ago
    The government doesn't acknowledge that the services are actually blocked in China. If you ask your ISP why Facebook isn't available, they'll tell you "it must be Facebook's fault." The government hasn't declared them illegal, so understanding how to make them "legal" is quite impossible. The government selectively cracksdown on Internet companies when it wants to make a point, and turns blind eyes on others, arbitrarily, porn is quite common in the China market and very available...and even necessary for these companies to make a profit. They just choose one to slap on the wrists occasionally to make sure they don't get out of control. In contrast, you'll find less porn on Facebook, G+, and YouTube then you will on RenRen, YouKu, Sina, and so on. Heck, WeChat is well known as the hookup app (so my wife won't let me go near it). But then this is similar to how prostitution is ubiquitous in the PRC vs. how it is very much underground in the US. How would a legalistic American company operate in such an environment? China is not yet very much governed by rule of (impartial, fairly applied) law, so it is just impossible to do much without being able to live in the grayness (as most Chinese internet companies are able to do!).

bitcrusher 13y ago

I think part of the reason is that the story is being positioned incorrectly. Yahoo owns 24% of Alibaba, so it's not China vs. Silicon Valley, or any such nonsense. It's definitely news worthy that they're going to IPO here in the US and they have a HUGE market in China/Asia... Even so, will they be able to crack the US consumer market? Time will tell, but so far, their efforts haven't born fruit. They have a stealth 'target vertical' shopping experience that's developing right now in the Bay Area, however, they're significantly behind schedule, having trouble integrating teams from several locals and their product is dubiously "useful" at this stage of the game. All of that being said, eventually they'll find some combination to get a foothold of the US market and it will be interesting to see what happens then as competition heats up.

rahimnathwani 13y ago
"They have a stealth 'target vertical' shopping experience that's developing right now in the Bay Area" Can you provide any more information on this, or pointers to sources? I'm v curious.