4 ms·

> Do you really think that having an "FDA" somehow alleviates all concern about the content/quality/integrity of the food you buy and eat? In countries with re

by nfoz 13y ago

> Do you really think that having an "FDA" somehow alleviates all concern about the content/quality/integrity of the food you buy and eat? In countries with reasonably effective/trustworthy government agencies, it does a pretty decent job. Can't speak for the US FDA though.

mindcrime 13y ago
In countries with reasonably effective/trustworthy government agencies I'm still not convinced that such a thing exists. Of course, my direct experience is limited to the USA, but human nature being what it is, I'm skeptical that "government" in any place is much better than "government" in another place.
- Daishiman 13y ago
  So you're talking out of your ass and that's the best evidence you've got? Because the person you're replying to apparently has some first-hand experience (which I've also seen but to a much lesser degree) and I'm sure as hell thankful that there's even a modicum of regulation in the food industry.
  - mindcrime 13y ago
    So you're talking out of your ass Actually, no. If you bothered to actually try and understand what I'm saying, you'd realize that's not the case. What I'm saying is, we know the "first principles" (eg, human nature being what it is) and we can reason from first principles using deductive logic. So you can call that "talking out your ass" if you want, but I don't think that's accurate at all.
    - Daishiman 13y ago
      If you think deductive logic is enough to reason about a system as profoundly complex, chaotic and difficult to model as the food industry + business and government interests then I suggest you step away from your naive mental model and look at how those entities are actually studied in real life and realize that data and evidence are substantially more important. And the data and evidence point to the fact that governments with strong and healthy regulatory bodies do a far better job at public safety than any commercial enterprise by itself. Even the very reason why commercial verification and safety inspections by companies like UL and reinsurers work is because there's a strong legal process behind that and government institutions that are willing to put the foot down given enough public pressure. Also, please, do me a favor and find me a social scientist who thinks that our "first principles" are anything but a crude and profoundly erroneous way to think about institutions and that those principles will do anything even remotely decent to approximate social reality. I stick to the facts of food safety, and from my empirical experience of what few places me and my loved ones have been to in the world, I'd rather eat food certified as safe by an EU state any day over, say, a commercial institution in Namibia, massive warts and all.
      - mindcrime 13y ago
        But that's not the point. This is much bigger than "food safety". But I get the feeling we aren't making any progress towards any shared understanding here, so I'm done.

by nfoz 13y ago

mindcrime 13y ago

In countries with reasonably effective/trustworthy government agencies I'm still not convinced that such a thing exists. Of course, my direct experience is limited to the USA, but human nature being what it is, I'm skeptical that "government" in any place is much better than "government" in another place.

Daishiman 13y ago
So you're talking out of your ass and that's the best evidence you've got? Because the person you're replying to apparently has some first-hand experience (which I've also seen but to a much lesser degree) and I'm sure as hell thankful that there's even a modicum of regulation in the food industry.
- mindcrime 13y ago
  So you're talking out of your ass Actually, no. If you bothered to actually try and understand what I'm saying, you'd realize that's not the case. What I'm saying is, we know the "first principles" (eg, human nature being what it is) and we can reason from first principles using deductive logic. So you can call that "talking out your ass" if you want, but I don't think that's accurate at all.
  - Daishiman 13y ago
    If you think deductive logic is enough to reason about a system as profoundly complex, chaotic and difficult to model as the food industry + business and government interests then I suggest you step away from your naive mental model and look at how those entities are actually studied in real life and realize that data and evidence are substantially more important. And the data and evidence point to the fact that governments with strong and healthy regulatory bodies do a far better job at public safety than any commercial enterprise by itself. Even the very reason why commercial verification and safety inspections by companies like UL and reinsurers work is because there's a strong legal process behind that and government institutions that are willing to put the foot down given enough public pressure. Also, please, do me a favor and find me a social scientist who thinks that our "first principles" are anything but a crude and profoundly erroneous way to think about institutions and that those principles will do anything even remotely decent to approximate social reality. I stick to the facts of food safety, and from my empirical experience of what few places me and my loved ones have been to in the world, I'd rather eat food certified as safe by an EU state any day over, say, a commercial institution in Namibia, massive warts and all.
    - mindcrime 13y ago
      But that's not the point. This is much bigger than "food safety". But I get the feeling we aren't making any progress towards any shared understanding here, so I'm done.