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Show HN: Betatype - A freelance site where clients pay $3,500 for prototypes

285 points by brandonhsiao 12y ago

nperez 12y ago
Assuming this is 2-3 weeks of work, I hope there are a lot of strict controls in place concerning requirements to stave off the "wait, this should be simple" chronic under-estimators, but I've been in plenty of spots where quickly getting a project like this would have meant a lot. Hope it works out for this site.
jsankey 12y ago
It's nice that the dollar figures are all upfront on this page, but it seems a bit strange to say "Get a working, launchable prototype for $3,500" when the client actually pays $3570. It seems that you're putting half of your fee on the client side and the other half on the programmer side, but in doing so the client's seeing a mixed message that could be off putting.
- robbiemitchell 12y ago
  I doubt it's off putting. 2% for the sake of simplicity is OK. Similarly, "$10k" would be fine instead of "$10,200."
  - aleem 12y ago
    In UK, prices are always inclusive of VAT. Going back to the U.S. pricing model after that is annoying to say the least. A price discrepancy leaves room for dispute unless you add "fine print" for "hidden fees", both of which are frowned upon to the extent that many products market themselves as having no "hidden fees". Consumers never benefit from any of it, only companies do.
  - ronaldx 12y ago
    Agree on the UK comment. Companies are generally expected to put the price of sale in the UK (with VAT if B2C, without VAT if B2B). There's a strong feeling that they're cheating or deliberately misleading when they don't do that.
thedogeye 12y ago
Will need to do 10,000 apps to make $1.4M in revenue. Pretty tough business. If I were CEO I would raise your 4% fee and charge more than $3,500 per app.
- lugg 12y ago
  I have a feeling their numbers are soft for a reason. 5000 is a solid investment, 3500, thats a small portion of dayjobs income i could drop to get a sideproject trialed. 4% is also very minor, where 5+ would likely look a little too middleman-y for my liking. Limit the size of the project, limit the size of the investment, limit the cost. Going forward I expect they will have to do some form of tiering once they see the type of work is in demand, and which type of work is achievable by their developers (which all is still unknown at this point) Example tiers: 500-1000 = quick site, 3500 = mvp, 5000-10000 = soft launch
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
junto 12y ago
> Automatic payments without any hassle. We'll drop money into your bank account on a rolling basis. What does this mean exactly? My prototype will be connected up to your Stripe account and then you'll transfer the money my app makes to me through periodical bank transfers?
- ckannan90 12y ago
  No, I believe it means the programmer gets automatically paid when milestones are marked as done. They are referring to the 3.5k being paid for the job. Any revenue the app gets has nothing to do with them.
xpop2027 12y ago
Interesting.. signed up for this. I wonder what the scope of work is for $3,500.
kapkapkap 12y ago
I think you should take more than a 4% cut, that doesn't seem sustainable.
thejosh 12y ago
Sort of offtopic, but has any non technical person launched a startup / business without a technical cofounder? The company I work for gets people asking for quotes to build their "next big idea", where the person isn't technical but has industry experience behind them.. this has turned out pretty well for some people.
- coreymaass 12y ago
  I run http://builtFromIdeas.com http://builtFromIdeas.com, where I build apps, generally for non-tech entrepreneurs, for $5,000. I've had a few clients "succeed" without continued input from me. I consider success a lifestyle business, where income each month was at least enough to move onto the next venture. With a well-built app and enough knowledge of your vertical and marketing, it's definitely do-able. At this writing none of them are millionaires.
  - taigeair 12y ago
    Cool video, who made yours?
    - carrotleads 12y ago
      Would like to know too
    - coreymaass 12y ago
      Nick at completionwebstudios.com did the video you see on http://builtFromIdeas.com http://builtFromIdeas.com Highly recommended.
  - neil1 12y ago
    why does it say > NDA included! NDA's are terrible. They stifle creative thought, put yourself up for lawsuits and someone, has had the "genius" idea before.
    - sfall 12y ago
      i think it is there so the person about to hire him/them has some reassurance of privacy
flippyhead 12y ago
I'm sure a could read a bunch to find out your answer, but it wasn't quickly enough obvious to me (as a programmer) how you ensure the scope of work is actually equal to $3500 of my time.
- huragok 12y ago
  Agreed. An example scope of a prototype would be very valuable to see if it's worth the time signing up. Additionally, I'm guessing that rudimentary design skills would be required because there's a helluva difference between a functional bootstrap proto vs designing a product with specific design goals in mind.
  - vargas84 12y ago
    I agree with this - I think both parties would greatly benefit from being able to see a "standard" prototype. Over time, I'm sure a that few spec templates could be developed that would cover 80% percent of use cases. It sounds like a scalable model to me. As a university student, this is really pretty great. I will have the opportunity to work on reasonably sized projects, earn some extra cash, and probably build a pretty sweet portfolio. I even think it would be cool to form student orgs around this - have upperclassmen train underclassmen in the art of full stack web-dev, and then have let two underclassmen jump into one of these projects with the guidance of an experienced dev. Finally, split the profits. If any of the founders are reading this, would you be open to something like this?
  - MasterScrat 12y ago
    Even if you sign up, you need to submit a resume before you actually get to see the offered projects.
yeskia 12y ago
From the /whyapply page: We're a site that pairs contract programmers with clients. Specifically, we're a marketplace where clients buy prototypes for $2,500.
- jaredsohn 12y ago
  It says $3,500 now. (Maybe somebody read your comment and fixed it?)
  - BHSPitMonkey 12y ago
    The price grows as a function of time. Clients had better get in now while it's still this cheap.
aroman 12y ago
Clicking "learn more" on the "idea guy" side 500s for me: http://betatype.io/whypost http://betatype.io/whypost
- aaronz8 12y ago
  Everything that I'd expect to 404 gives me 500s.
  - Carioca 12y ago
    Probably using a framework (Django, for instance) that doesn't have a default 404 path.
    - GVRV 12y ago
      BuiltWith shows it's using Rails.
    - ragsagar 12y ago
      If 404 template is absent, in the case of django it will show Not Found The requested URL /whypost was not found on this server.
    - davyjones 12y ago
      Guessing by what curl -I says, looks like lighttpd + webpy.
smoyer 12y ago
It's a nice site ... what's your strategy for solving the chicken-and-egg marketplace problem?
- ch4s3 12y ago
  As a prospective programmer, I would love to hear this answered.
- ZirconCode 12y ago
  Upon creating my account I received an account id of around 1050~. Looks like little is done to obscure the numbers. Perhaps they hope sufficient hype will solve the problem?
  - grrowl 12y ago
    1806. Looks like they're getting popular.
    - alixaxel 12y ago
      Indeed, 2010 here. Sequential for sure.
      - deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]
      - mkal_tsr 12y ago
        North of 2800 here
inc 12y ago
"What We Offer" "I'll write this when I have time." Looking forward to this.
7Figures2Commas 12y ago
> As part of our screening, we'll help clients flesh out their idea into a clear list of requirements. At market rate for an experienced contract product manager or developer with product management chops, the process of defining functional requirements for a new product will usually entail more than $3,500 worth of work.
funkyy 12y ago
Interesting idea but so far poor start. We need more information, less errors. I would like a video on main page explaining what you are doing here and why anyone should use you. Outline strengths of your idea and give much more details please. The next few hours will be probably a turning point if this idea will work for you or not. So be quick and fix all the issues!
Ethan_Mick 12y ago
It wasn't clear to me that the prototypes would be web only - I'm an iOS developer and figured I'd sign up. To be fair, I think the idea would work for different platforms, but perhaps be explicit on the front page.
aculver 12y ago
As someone who is a member of both of this site's target audiences, I'd be curious to actually see some live samples of products that were developed on a $3,500 budget. I think that would help give "idea people" a realistic expectation for what the scope of their project should be in it's first iteration, and it would set some expectation for the developers as to what they should be able to produce on a $3,500 budget. Another thing I'd like to see Betatype providing is some sort of franchised coaching and guidance to both the product owner and the developer on how to best set themselves and the other party up for success.
- 7Figures2Commas 12y ago
  > Another thing I'd like to see Betatype providing is some sort of franchised coaching and guidance to both the product owner and the developer on how to best set themselves and the other party up for success. Coaching and guidance isn't a substitute for experience. You can learn about the product lifecycle by reading a book or taking a class, but that doesn't mean you know how to manage it in the real world. Frankly, the number of good developers who can also credibly wear the hat of product manager is much, much smaller than the number of good developers.
  - aculver 12y ago
    Right, I agree with what you've said completely. The reason I introduced the concept of "coaching and guidance" here is because I believe it would be required on both sides for eligible parties at the $3,500 price point. I really wouldn't expect "good developers who can also credibly wear the hat of a product manager" to be picking up $3,500 contracts on a site like this, however, I could see it being a stepping stone for mid-level developers who are entry-level consultants.
  - woah 12y ago
    No way I would wear the hats of a product manager and a developer at that price point. The spec better be really good, and no "little changes". If they have a way to make this happen, then it's an amazing product. If not, then there will be a lot of disappointment on both sides.
sinzone 12y ago
price should be higher to have a decent output. Around $5000.
sethbannon 12y ago
Neat idea. Initial thought is that I have trouble seeing this be profitable, given how little Betatype is taking. Betatype itself is only getting $140 / project and for this is promising to "help clients flesh out their idea into a clear list of requirements." That alone could take many hours of back and forth.
- aculver 12y ago
  Agree. One strategy would be to do the upfront project analysis at a loss until they get the hang of it and identify the patterns, then create automated tools that product owners can work with to get the same work done. Or maybe they already have automated tools. However, my bigger concern is that working out the requirements is being done by someone other than the developer that's going to be working on the project. If you're trying to get something done on a budget, fewer people in the mix is better. Furthermore, the conversation about product requirements needs to be a two way discussion. Developers are often in a unique position to guide a product owner into what's easy to implement and provides the biggest "bang for your buck." Their early insight can radically shape the product and is not based on what the customer thinks they need, but what the customer communicates their goals are. This is where a consultant can provide serious ROI to a product owner.
  - dsrguru 12y ago
    It seems like the fear is that allowing the developer to have direct communication with the client could result in people circumventing the 4% commission. But unless they come up with an excellent workaround, it might be hard for the site to catch on without allowing that communication.
    - alttab 12y ago
      They are trying to create a two-sided marketplace on something that is traditionally a consulting gig. So many things can go sideways, and at a 4% take on $3,500 projects, as loosely defined as that is, there is no way this can scale.
ApolloRising 12y ago
Are you handling the escrow in a safe manner to make sure everyone gets paid? What is your dispute resolution plan?
- err4nt 12y ago
  They mention on the homepage of the site that you _can_ handle payment entirely outside of their system in your own terms.
themoonbus 12y ago
Are all prototypes worth $3500? I'm confused as to why there is a fixed price.
- acjohnson55 12y ago
  I think it makes sense. It implicitly keeps the project scope very limited and it eliminates a lot of the haggling. My biggest concern, like others have mentioned, is that it seems unscalable with the cut that the company keeps.
tomasien 12y ago
How are you taking payments? Checks?
abus 12y ago
Really should be https. I like the idea though and hope it's successful.
lcusack 12y ago
So, assuming you had an extra $3,500 to blow. What would you most like to have built?
jayvanguard 12y ago
Sounds too good to be true.
AndrewKemendo 12y ago
I feel like this is the startup that so many of us have always wanted to do. Kudos for doing it!
aegiso 12y ago
On the bright side, this project acknowledges the killer issue with these kinds of marketplaces: scalably managing quality, scope, and disputes. But on the other hand, I see nothing but assurances and a woefully low cut that I can't imagine could keep this train chugging without shoveling time (=money) into the furnace. At ~$140 revenue a pop, if even 4% of projects go off the rails, the "insurance" policy already puts the company in the red -- forget profit. There is a huge problem to solve here, for sure. I want someone to solve it. But I'm not seeing a solution.
ldubinets 12y ago
Nice. I've thought about building such a service myself. Found this when I was looking around: http://iwbyp.chris-granger.com/ http://iwbyp.chris-granger.com/
hanley 12y ago
Typo under 'Both sides get what they really want'. > Programmers get get paid to implement a well-defined spec.
dangero 12y ago
I look at it like this: There are 4 directions that a software project can be constrained: Time, price, scope, and quality. 1. Elance or ODesk can offer you fixed time, price, and scope, but highly erratic quality. 2. An expensive contracting agency can offer you fixed time, scope, and quality, but with high costs. 3. This site promises fixed cost, and quality, but makes no promises on scope or completion timeline. All that's left is for someone to make a site that has fixed timing, like "Software Prototypes in One Week". I'll wait for that one to hit the front page of HN. As a developer I'd actually prefer that because I know when it's going to be over.
- MetaCosm 12y ago
  "Done In One Week" Quality, Cost and Scope will be "best effort" Honestly, it might sound silly, but it would be useful. Give a client an idea of what can be done in a week, lets them know what can be off the shelf and what has the be built, etc. Something like $85 an hour @ 3500 a week. Better than spending a week in meetings arguing about scope.
  - dangero 12y ago
    Yeah, as an engineer it sounds like a blast. If I could line up work doing that week after week I'd definitely give it a go for a while.
    - Mikushi 12y ago
      Same, specially that I love doing prototypes.
    - thruflo 12y ago
      Sprinkle a little 'agile' magic dust...
- pg_is_a_butt 12y ago
  how about i use their service to have someone build me the exact same service. payment gateway + spec upload + a few forms. charging $140 per transaction is criminal.
the_cat_kittles 12y ago
To all the people saying this price is so too low- don't you think that they are doing this to attract a bunch of people to solve the chicken-egg network effect problem first? Then I'm sure they will raise their cut.
- r00fus 12y ago
  They should also have some good reference-able wins as well, and most importably, knowledge of the advisory/selection process well in hand. I'm in neither market, but I'm very interested to see how this goes, and whether it can be extended to mobile app dev, or longer than 1wk dev projects.
bruceb 12y ago
Cool but there are already similar services: http://launchyard.com/ http://launchyard.com/ They will help you focus your idea and one of their partners will build the prototype.
- aatifh 12y ago
  Thanks for the shoutout Bruce. I'm the Founder of LaunchYard.com, and we have been successfully helping entrepreneurs from the last 1 and half years to launch their products. For instance: http://launchyard.com/case-studies/albums/ http://launchyard.com/case-studies/albums/ Shoot me a line if anyone wants to learn more. atif at launchyard.com
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
llamataboot 12y ago
I just can't imagine any non brochure-ware prototype that can be built for $3500 (let's leave off the problems of the middleman not making much money on this one /and/ promising to do project management). two problems 1) limited hours - you're talking about somewhere around 20-30 hours of senior dev time or 40-70 hours of a newer devs time. Let's say they can both accomplish the same amount during that timeframe. It's still /not that much/ especially if you are taking any design into consideration beyond popping bootstrap on it. 2) zero iterations. (and this is perhaps a bigger problem, since the first can be solved simply be changing it to a prototype for $10k or whatever) I've never seen even an MVP come out fully baked without a lot of iterations at the beginning. Arguably prototyping is the process of rapid iteration. One and done just doesn't work for what a prototype needs.
- dominotw 12y ago
  >limited hours - you're talking about somewhere around 20-30 hours of senior dev time or 40-70 hours of a newer devs time. Do you have to be from the US to participate in this?
- logn 12y ago
  This would still pay a lot more than anyone on oDesk/elance is willing to spend. And I think a lot of prototypes/betas/MVPs can be built in 30-40 hours. Zero iterations? I think most people would just continue on after the beta, working outside of Betatype.
- gargarplex 12y ago
  >$3500 >20-30 hours of senior dev time Someone should point the fact that senior devs are on average making $175/hr to Google's Greatest Asset, who recently wondered where to find contracts that yield $100/hr.
- richardkeller 12y ago
  Considering that a mid-level to senior South African developer makes around R40'000 per month (which is roughly what $3500 equates to), you would be able to get an entire month's worth of work from a competent developer based here in SA.
kondro 12y ago
4% doesn't seem sustainable if they're taking credit card payments. The best they can probably get to is around 1.2% transaction fee (if they've shopped around) and this is unlikely given the risk profile of a marketplace like this. I bet they are paying 2.5%+. So 1.5% ($52.50) profit per project? I have to wonder how they came up with 4% (2% per side). Surely 10-20% is still a reasonable fee to connect these parties and manage the relationship. Heck, both I and the purchaser pays 10% to an auctioneer to sell my stuff in < 60 seconds (yes, I know they do a little more than that… but mostly it's about supplying the marketplace).
- unreal37 12y ago
  Unless the creator of this marketplace is himself a provider, in which case he picks the best projects for himself at $3000 profit, and offloads the bad projects to others for $50 profit.
larrys 12y ago
This seems more like "vet my potential idea" rather than "Show hn". Domain was registered today and we can assume the idea was hatched today if not fairly recently. There is nothing here other than a single page and a way to signup for either a programmer or person with an idea. This isn't a business it's an idea. Wrapping it in a somewhat acceptably designed website and some marketing speak and seeing HN start to nibble as if it's some real thing actually happening is always interesting. When is the line crossed between "Show HN" and free advertising for your idea?
- Strom 12y ago
  The same person registered another similar domain for more personal offers just a few weeks ago. http://prototypefor2345.com/ http://prototypefor2345.com/ Betatype seems like an iteration of this previous site.
DigitalSea 12y ago
Really cool idea, but I think a flat-cost of $3,500 for a prototype is way too low and the approach is error prone. How about iteration? Iteration is one of the key factors during the prototyping process. Does that $3,500 figure cover only one iteration or the initial development and consequent iterations? Or does a company/individual have to pay another $3,500 per each revision?
betadreamer 12y ago
The term prototype seem ambiguous enough that will cause problems. How far does it have to done? How much bugs can it have? Cross-browser compatible? The problem with fixed pricing is that its not scalable.
robbiemitchell 12y ago
A business where most customers aren't qualified to be good customers. (Bad at defining, scoping, specs, estimating, having realistic expectations...)
guptaneil 12y ago
This is a cool idea. I've been experimenting with a similar model for design. Undesigned[1] will redesign or prototype a single page in one week for $1500. In your case, the greatest struggle is going to be supplying the marketplace. It makes sense to offer the service at unsustainable margins for now while you seed the market, so I wouldn't worry too much about all the comments talking about how unsustainable it is, and instead focus on the ones talking about the difficulty of building a marketplace. 1: http://www.undesigned.io http://www.undesigned.io
- tga 12y ago
  You're on good tracks, this is one of the things 37signals did in the beginning. " Want to make one of your site's pages better? Check out 37express: 1-page redesigns in 1-week. 37express is perfect for companies that need one more design comp, rapid professional prototyping of a wireframe or early-design concept, or just a quick, hassle-free, "how could this page be better?" creative spark. " http://37signals.com/better.php http://37signals.com/better.php
twodayslate 12y ago
I love that you allow people to "pay outside". I wish more services offered this. Just be sure that users understand the risks associated with "paying outside".
gedrap 12y ago
I like the idea of it, was thinking of something myself not too long ago. It's great because it provides big value, and your (i.e. betatype founder, contractor specialising on prototypes, etc) job is to highlight the value because it's not obvious for many. Doing that seems like a fun experience. Tell the "idea people" that you will sell some seemingly incomplete software which might need to be thrown away for $3500 and they will shrug their shoulders or laugh. Tell the same people that for $3500 you will help them to find out the potential of their idea for a small price, and they, in the ideal world, should love it. Many of us have worked on some project, which was sort of stealth project and founders spent loads of cash just to find out that no one needs it. All of it could have been avoided for $3500. But how close the real world is to the ideal world?
tluyben2 12y ago
$3500 is one week without talking too much to the client; not sure how to get something usable from that? If your idea is clear then sure, but (hopefully) most aren't and then you need a few days talking/sketching and starting up your favorite edi... oops $3500 gone.
bnt 12y ago
OK, what the actual fk? I register as a programmer and then a page shows up saying "Thank you for registering, now please EMAIL us your info - and we'll get back in touch". Fail on so many levels.
richardkeller 12y ago
I see a lot of comments here about the quality of work that can be delivered on a $3500 budget. While this may be considered a shoestring budget in developed countries, it is completely reasonable in developing countries such as South Africa. Here, $3500 equates to roughly R37'000, which would be considered a decent monthly salary for a mid-level to senior software developer (depending on location, of course). So from this perspective, a South African developer would easily be able to spend a month developing such a prototype, which is almost enough time to develop a functional system for a simple-enough use-case. I've personally developed a few pieces of software around this price-point: software that is actively in use now and not just a prototype, and whose code I don't consider completely terrible either.
Kiro 12y ago
I interpret this as "get a crappy MVP prototype for a very low price" which I think sounds great. I don't think the price is too low if that's the expected outcome.
seyz 12y ago
Nice product. 1 year ago, I launched "Two weeks to materialize your idea": http://munda.me http://munda.me This business model works well. Congrats.
Yunk 12y ago
> launchable web application prototype This sounds like an oxymoron which would imply the two sides of the transaction have separate expectations. As reasonable developers, do we build out the system, security, data backup plan of a "prototype"? As reasonable buyers do we "launch" an application without them?
pushkargaikwad 12y ago
I liked the idea, atleast Betatype will have less noise and better quality of developers/hackers. I wonders how will the quality be maintained though. Also there is thin line between what are beta products ? will you prescreen the projects posted ? also there are good chances that buyers will misuse the service due it being flat cost in nature. Expect people asking for N number of features and changing deliverable as well as unsatisfied buyers.
martin_bech 12y ago
Love it taking something thats seemingly a complex process and turning it into a product. Only thing is, they should be charging a lot more than 4%. Perhaps the 500 USD or a similar fee on top. If you provide value, charge for that value.
Angrycrow 12y ago
The premise alone makes me think that someone is trying to get some free money ... snake oil smell. Know what I mean? Why read this?
k-mcgrady 12y ago
What does the programmer screening process involve?
toppy 12y ago
Change description on login page unless you're Rokumo ;)
ing33k 12y ago
I have seen similar sites like this like 5k MVP, 10k MVP. wanted to know if pricing is the only difference .
netcan 12y ago
Sometimes a blank canvas is not a good thing. Twitter invented something entirely defined by its constraints. The process of negotiating, defining and developing an "prototype" between a client and a freelance developer is hard, for both sides. Often, neither are skilled at managing the process. Once you limit some aspect of the project, you can adjust the other aspects around the limitation and everything becomes simpler. It's a lot easier to scope a project when the scope needs to fit in a $3500 budget. Simplifying negotiations and decision making could be a big win. Choosing a developer by looking at a portfolio is a lot easier when the scope budgets are the same. I wonder if this idea could usefully be applied to something outside of software. How about a $3500 (or whatever) custom kitchen.
- coreymaass 12y ago
  For me, I use a one-hour skype session to talk every potential client "down off the ceiling". We discuss their idea, and then work together to define a scope I can do for $5,000 in 4 weeks (this is the service I offer at http://builtFromIdeas.com http://builtFromIdeas.com )
  - lamby 12y ago
    Could you go into more detail about how you deal with the initial stages? What if the client wants more, eg. "without this feature it doesn't make sense", etc. Thanks in advance.
sesm 12y ago
Spotted a typo: http://betatype.io/whyapply http://betatype.io/whyapply says: > All job postings are required to be as clear and specific as possible, and they're required to pay 1/4 ($625) up front. This points to conclusion, that the author initially set the price to $2500, but changed to $3500 later.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
ValentineC 12y ago
Looks like this is something interesting that came up from cwilson's suggestion on one of brandonhsiao's earlier submissions: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7606963 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7606963
zensavona 12y ago
This is one of the most interesting things I've seen as a Show HN in ages... Awesome! I can't wait to see how this plays out, and how scared people are to tell each other about what they're building with it, while it's begin built (e.g. if listings for ideas are public to developers?)
bitJericho 12y ago
It turns out you have to submit a CV and portfolio. If I knew I was applying for a job I wouldn't have submitted my email :/
mikkom 12y ago
You make it pretty hard to register. I don't want to send all kinds of details about myself when checking if a service is worth my time and I don't think I'm the only one.
- adamcw 12y ago
  Show stopper for me as well. I wanted to see if they had any projects that would be fun for a night/weekend type thing, but they are asking a lot of info without giving enough back to make me feel comfortable sharing.
ivan_ah 12y ago
I really like this idea, and in combination with the bitnami stacks, the "handover" to the client could be very easy too. [1] https://bitnami.com/stacks https://bitnami.com/stacks
leorocky 12y ago
This would only makes sense to me if I could acquire and complete 3 prototypes a month which would be an unlikely outcome with an insane amount of work with little hope of making more.
jnhuynh 12y ago
Did anyone else notice that the "Apply as programmer" sign up page doesn't use HTTPS? Is it just me or this is the case for everyone. http://betatype.io/createacc/hacker http://betatype.io/createacc/hacker It stopped my sign up immediately.
eauden 12y ago
No SSL? Not even for sign up and sign in? How is my info (user, password, e-mail, name, banking info) going to be "protected"? Has people given up on SSL (and any security for that matter) already because of Heartbleed? I guess I can hear some people talking: "We don't need SSL! Not having it is pretty much the same, but with less overhead!" Seriously, without SSL, you are Beta at best. And if you have been operating like this for a while, well that's terrible... Your users should be very concerned.
Jean-Philipe 12y ago
I've tried to contact them a few times via their application form and via email, but no response. Has anybody actually get into the program?

285 points by brandonhsiao 12y ago

Assuming this is 2-3 weeks of work, I hope there are a lot of strict controls in place concerning requirements to stave off the "wait, this should be simple" chronic under-estimators, but I've been in plenty of spots where quickly getting a project like this would have meant a lot. Hope it works out for this site.

jsankey 12y ago

It's nice that the dollar figures are all upfront on this page, but it seems a bit strange to say "Get a working, launchable prototype for $3,500" when the client actually pays $3570. It seems that you're putting half of your fee on the client side and the other half on the programmer side, but in doing so the client's seeing a mixed message that could be off putting.

robbiemitchell 12y ago
I doubt it's off putting. 2% for the sake of simplicity is OK. Similarly, "$10k" would be fine instead of "$10,200."
- aleem 12y ago
  In UK, prices are always inclusive of VAT. Going back to the U.S. pricing model after that is annoying to say the least. A price discrepancy leaves room for dispute unless you add "fine print" for "hidden fees", both of which are frowned upon to the extent that many products market themselves as having no "hidden fees". Consumers never benefit from any of it, only companies do.
- ronaldx 12y ago
  Agree on the UK comment. Companies are generally expected to put the price of sale in the UK (with VAT if B2C, without VAT if B2B). There's a strong feeling that they're cheating or deliberately misleading when they don't do that.

thedogeye 12y ago

Will need to do 10,000 apps to make $1.4M in revenue. Pretty tough business. If I were CEO I would raise your 4% fee and charge more than $3,500 per app.

lugg 12y ago
I have a feeling their numbers are soft for a reason. 5000 is a solid investment, 3500, thats a small portion of dayjobs income i could drop to get a sideproject trialed. 4% is also very minor, where 5+ would likely look a little too middleman-y for my liking. Limit the size of the project, limit the size of the investment, limit the cost. Going forward I expect they will have to do some form of tiering once they see the type of work is in demand, and which type of work is achievable by their developers (which all is still unknown at this point) Example tiers: 500-1000 = quick site, 3500 = mvp, 5000-10000 = soft launch
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junto 12y ago

> Automatic payments without any hassle. We'll drop money into your bank account on a rolling basis. What does this mean exactly? My prototype will be connected up to your Stripe account and then you'll transfer the money my app makes to me through periodical bank transfers?

ckannan90 12y ago
No, I believe it means the programmer gets automatically paid when milestones are marked as done. They are referring to the 3.5k being paid for the job. Any revenue the app gets has nothing to do with them.

xpop2027 12y ago

Interesting.. signed up for this. I wonder what the scope of work is for $3,500.

kapkapkap 12y ago

I think you should take more than a 4% cut, that doesn't seem sustainable.

thejosh 12y ago

Sort of offtopic, but has any non technical person launched a startup / business without a technical cofounder? The company I work for gets people asking for quotes to build their "next big idea", where the person isn't technical but has industry experience behind them.. this has turned out pretty well for some people.

coreymaass 12y ago
I run http://builtFromIdeas.com http://builtFromIdeas.com, where I build apps, generally for non-tech entrepreneurs, for $5,000. I've had a few clients "succeed" without continued input from me. I consider success a lifestyle business, where income each month was at least enough to move onto the next venture. With a well-built app and enough knowledge of your vertical and marketing, it's definitely do-able. At this writing none of them are millionaires.
- taigeair 12y ago
  Cool video, who made yours?
  - carrotleads 12y ago
    Would like to know too
  - coreymaass 12y ago
    Nick at completionwebstudios.com did the video you see on http://builtFromIdeas.com http://builtFromIdeas.com Highly recommended.
- neil1 12y ago
  why does it say > NDA included! NDA's are terrible. They stifle creative thought, put yourself up for lawsuits and someone, has had the "genius" idea before.
  - sfall 12y ago
    i think it is there so the person about to hire him/them has some reassurance of privacy

flippyhead 12y ago

I'm sure a could read a bunch to find out your answer, but it wasn't quickly enough obvious to me (as a programmer) how you ensure the scope of work is actually equal to $3500 of my time.

huragok 12y ago
Agreed. An example scope of a prototype would be very valuable to see if it's worth the time signing up. Additionally, I'm guessing that rudimentary design skills would be required because there's a helluva difference between a functional bootstrap proto vs designing a product with specific design goals in mind.
- vargas84 12y ago
  I agree with this - I think both parties would greatly benefit from being able to see a "standard" prototype. Over time, I'm sure a that few spec templates could be developed that would cover 80% percent of use cases. It sounds like a scalable model to me. As a university student, this is really pretty great. I will have the opportunity to work on reasonably sized projects, earn some extra cash, and probably build a pretty sweet portfolio. I even think it would be cool to form student orgs around this - have upperclassmen train underclassmen in the art of full stack web-dev, and then have let two underclassmen jump into one of these projects with the guidance of an experienced dev. Finally, split the profits. If any of the founders are reading this, would you be open to something like this?
- MasterScrat 12y ago
  Even if you sign up, you need to submit a resume before you actually get to see the offered projects.

yeskia 12y ago

From the /whyapply page: We're a site that pairs contract programmers with clients. Specifically, we're a marketplace where clients buy prototypes for $2,500.

jaredsohn 12y ago
It says $3,500 now. (Maybe somebody read your comment and fixed it?)
- BHSPitMonkey 12y ago
  The price grows as a function of time. Clients had better get in now while it's still this cheap.

aroman 12y ago

Clicking "learn more" on the "idea guy" side 500s for me: http://betatype.io/whypost http://betatype.io/whypost

aaronz8 12y ago
Everything that I'd expect to 404 gives me 500s.
- Carioca 12y ago
  Probably using a framework (Django, for instance) that doesn't have a default 404 path.
  - GVRV 12y ago
    BuiltWith shows it's using Rails.
  - ragsagar 12y ago
    If 404 template is absent, in the case of django it will show Not Found The requested URL /whypost was not found on this server.
  - davyjones 12y ago
    Guessing by what curl -I says, looks like lighttpd + webpy.

smoyer 12y ago

It's a nice site ... what's your strategy for solving the chicken-and-egg marketplace problem?

ch4s3 12y ago
As a prospective programmer, I would love to hear this answered.
ZirconCode 12y ago
Upon creating my account I received an account id of around 1050~. Looks like little is done to obscure the numbers. Perhaps they hope sufficient hype will solve the problem?
- grrowl 12y ago
  1806. Looks like they're getting popular.
  - alixaxel 12y ago
    Indeed, 2010 here. Sequential for sure.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
    - mkal_tsr 12y ago
      North of 2800 here

inc 12y ago

"What We Offer" "I'll write this when I have time." Looking forward to this.

7Figures2Commas 12y ago

> As part of our screening, we'll help clients flesh out their idea into a clear list of requirements. At market rate for an experienced contract product manager or developer with product management chops, the process of defining functional requirements for a new product will usually entail more than $3,500 worth of work.

funkyy 12y ago

Interesting idea but so far poor start. We need more information, less errors. I would like a video on main page explaining what you are doing here and why anyone should use you. Outline strengths of your idea and give much more details please. The next few hours will be probably a turning point if this idea will work for you or not. So be quick and fix all the issues!

Ethan_Mick 12y ago

It wasn't clear to me that the prototypes would be web only - I'm an iOS developer and figured I'd sign up. To be fair, I think the idea would work for different platforms, but perhaps be explicit on the front page.

aculver 12y ago

As someone who is a member of both of this site's target audiences, I'd be curious to actually see some live samples of products that were developed on a $3,500 budget. I think that would help give "idea people" a realistic expectation for what the scope of their project should be in it's first iteration, and it would set some expectation for the developers as to what they should be able to produce on a $3,500 budget. Another thing I'd like to see Betatype providing is some sort of franchised coaching and guidance to both the product owner and the developer on how to best set themselves and the other party up for success.

7Figures2Commas 12y ago
> Another thing I'd like to see Betatype providing is some sort of franchised coaching and guidance to both the product owner and the developer on how to best set themselves and the other party up for success. Coaching and guidance isn't a substitute for experience. You can learn about the product lifecycle by reading a book or taking a class, but that doesn't mean you know how to manage it in the real world. Frankly, the number of good developers who can also credibly wear the hat of product manager is much, much smaller than the number of good developers.
- aculver 12y ago
  Right, I agree with what you've said completely. The reason I introduced the concept of "coaching and guidance" here is because I believe it would be required on both sides for eligible parties at the $3,500 price point. I really wouldn't expect "good developers who can also credibly wear the hat of a product manager" to be picking up $3,500 contracts on a site like this, however, I could see it being a stepping stone for mid-level developers who are entry-level consultants.
- woah 12y ago
  No way I would wear the hats of a product manager and a developer at that price point. The spec better be really good, and no "little changes". If they have a way to make this happen, then it's an amazing product. If not, then there will be a lot of disappointment on both sides.

sinzone 12y ago

price should be higher to have a decent output. Around $5000.

sethbannon 12y ago

Neat idea. Initial thought is that I have trouble seeing this be profitable, given how little Betatype is taking. Betatype itself is only getting $140 / project and for this is promising to "help clients flesh out their idea into a clear list of requirements." That alone could take many hours of back and forth.

aculver 12y ago
Agree. One strategy would be to do the upfront project analysis at a loss until they get the hang of it and identify the patterns, then create automated tools that product owners can work with to get the same work done. Or maybe they already have automated tools. However, my bigger concern is that working out the requirements is being done by someone other than the developer that's going to be working on the project. If you're trying to get something done on a budget, fewer people in the mix is better. Furthermore, the conversation about product requirements needs to be a two way discussion. Developers are often in a unique position to guide a product owner into what's easy to implement and provides the biggest "bang for your buck." Their early insight can radically shape the product and is not based on what the customer thinks they need, but what the customer communicates their goals are. This is where a consultant can provide serious ROI to a product owner.
- dsrguru 12y ago
  It seems like the fear is that allowing the developer to have direct communication with the client could result in people circumventing the 4% commission. But unless they come up with an excellent workaround, it might be hard for the site to catch on without allowing that communication.
  - alttab 12y ago
    They are trying to create a two-sided marketplace on something that is traditionally a consulting gig. So many things can go sideways, and at a 4% take on $3,500 projects, as loosely defined as that is, there is no way this can scale.

ApolloRising 12y ago

Are you handling the escrow in a safe manner to make sure everyone gets paid? What is your dispute resolution plan?

err4nt 12y ago
They mention on the homepage of the site that you _can_ handle payment entirely outside of their system in your own terms.

themoonbus 12y ago

Are all prototypes worth $3500? I'm confused as to why there is a fixed price.

acjohnson55 12y ago
I think it makes sense. It implicitly keeps the project scope very limited and it eliminates a lot of the haggling. My biggest concern, like others have mentioned, is that it seems unscalable with the cut that the company keeps.

tomasien 12y ago

How are you taking payments? Checks?

abus 12y ago

Really should be https. I like the idea though and hope it's successful.

lcusack 12y ago

So, assuming you had an extra $3,500 to blow. What would you most like to have built?

jayvanguard 12y ago

Sounds too good to be true.

AndrewKemendo 12y ago

I feel like this is the startup that so many of us have always wanted to do. Kudos for doing it!

aegiso 12y ago

On the bright side, this project acknowledges the killer issue with these kinds of marketplaces: scalably managing quality, scope, and disputes. But on the other hand, I see nothing but assurances and a woefully low cut that I can't imagine could keep this train chugging without shoveling time (=money) into the furnace. At ~$140 revenue a pop, if even 4% of projects go off the rails, the "insurance" policy already puts the company in the red -- forget profit. There is a huge problem to solve here, for sure. I want someone to solve it. But I'm not seeing a solution.

ldubinets 12y ago

Nice. I've thought about building such a service myself. Found this when I was looking around: http://iwbyp.chris-granger.com/ http://iwbyp.chris-granger.com/

hanley 12y ago

Typo under 'Both sides get what they really want'. > Programmers get get paid to implement a well-defined spec.

dangero 12y ago

I look at it like this: There are 4 directions that a software project can be constrained: Time, price, scope, and quality. 1. Elance or ODesk can offer you fixed time, price, and scope, but highly erratic quality. 2. An expensive contracting agency can offer you fixed time, scope, and quality, but with high costs. 3. This site promises fixed cost, and quality, but makes no promises on scope or completion timeline. All that's left is for someone to make a site that has fixed timing, like "Software Prototypes in One Week". I'll wait for that one to hit the front page of HN. As a developer I'd actually prefer that because I know when it's going to be over.

MetaCosm 12y ago
"Done In One Week" Quality, Cost and Scope will be "best effort" Honestly, it might sound silly, but it would be useful. Give a client an idea of what can be done in a week, lets them know what can be off the shelf and what has the be built, etc. Something like $85 an hour @ 3500 a week. Better than spending a week in meetings arguing about scope.
- dangero 12y ago
  Yeah, as an engineer it sounds like a blast. If I could line up work doing that week after week I'd definitely give it a go for a while.
  - Mikushi 12y ago
    Same, specially that I love doing prototypes.
  - thruflo 12y ago
    Sprinkle a little 'agile' magic dust...
pg_is_a_butt 12y ago
how about i use their service to have someone build me the exact same service. payment gateway + spec upload + a few forms. charging $140 per transaction is criminal.

the_cat_kittles 12y ago

To all the people saying this price is so too low- don't you think that they are doing this to attract a bunch of people to solve the chicken-egg network effect problem first? Then I'm sure they will raise their cut.

r00fus 12y ago
They should also have some good reference-able wins as well, and most importably, knowledge of the advisory/selection process well in hand. I'm in neither market, but I'm very interested to see how this goes, and whether it can be extended to mobile app dev, or longer than 1wk dev projects.

bruceb 12y ago

Cool but there are already similar services: http://launchyard.com/ http://launchyard.com/ They will help you focus your idea and one of their partners will build the prototype.

aatifh 12y ago
Thanks for the shoutout Bruce. I'm the Founder of LaunchYard.com, and we have been successfully helping entrepreneurs from the last 1 and half years to launch their products. For instance: http://launchyard.com/case-studies/albums/ http://launchyard.com/case-studies/albums/ Shoot me a line if anyone wants to learn more. atif at launchyard.com

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llamataboot 12y ago

I just can't imagine any non brochure-ware prototype that can be built for $3500 (let's leave off the problems of the middleman not making much money on this one /and/ promising to do project management). two problems 1) limited hours - you're talking about somewhere around 20-30 hours of senior dev time or 40-70 hours of a newer devs time. Let's say they can both accomplish the same amount during that timeframe. It's still /not that much/ especially if you are taking any design into consideration beyond popping bootstrap on it. 2) zero iterations. (and this is perhaps a bigger problem, since the first can be solved simply be changing it to a prototype for $10k or whatever) I've never seen even an MVP come out fully baked without a lot of iterations at the beginning. Arguably prototyping is the process of rapid iteration. One and done just doesn't work for what a prototype needs.

dominotw 12y ago
>limited hours - you're talking about somewhere around 20-30 hours of senior dev time or 40-70 hours of a newer devs time. Do you have to be from the US to participate in this?
logn 12y ago
This would still pay a lot more than anyone on oDesk/elance is willing to spend. And I think a lot of prototypes/betas/MVPs can be built in 30-40 hours. Zero iterations? I think most people would just continue on after the beta, working outside of Betatype.
gargarplex 12y ago
>$3500 >20-30 hours of senior dev time Someone should point the fact that senior devs are on average making $175/hr to Google's Greatest Asset, who recently wondered where to find contracts that yield $100/hr.
richardkeller 12y ago
Considering that a mid-level to senior South African developer makes around R40'000 per month (which is roughly what $3500 equates to), you would be able to get an entire month's worth of work from a competent developer based here in SA.

kondro 12y ago

4% doesn't seem sustainable if they're taking credit card payments. The best they can probably get to is around 1.2% transaction fee (if they've shopped around) and this is unlikely given the risk profile of a marketplace like this. I bet they are paying 2.5%+. So 1.5% ($52.50) profit per project? I have to wonder how they came up with 4% (2% per side). Surely 10-20% is still a reasonable fee to connect these parties and manage the relationship. Heck, both I and the purchaser pays 10% to an auctioneer to sell my stuff in < 60 seconds (yes, I know they do a little more than that… but mostly it's about supplying the marketplace).

unreal37 12y ago
Unless the creator of this marketplace is himself a provider, in which case he picks the best projects for himself at $3000 profit, and offloads the bad projects to others for $50 profit.

larrys 12y ago

This seems more like "vet my potential idea" rather than "Show hn". Domain was registered today and we can assume the idea was hatched today if not fairly recently. There is nothing here other than a single page and a way to signup for either a programmer or person with an idea. This isn't a business it's an idea. Wrapping it in a somewhat acceptably designed website and some marketing speak and seeing HN start to nibble as if it's some real thing actually happening is always interesting. When is the line crossed between "Show HN" and free advertising for your idea?

Strom 12y ago
The same person registered another similar domain for more personal offers just a few weeks ago. http://prototypefor2345.com/ http://prototypefor2345.com/ Betatype seems like an iteration of this previous site.

DigitalSea 12y ago

Really cool idea, but I think a flat-cost of $3,500 for a prototype is way too low and the approach is error prone. How about iteration? Iteration is one of the key factors during the prototyping process. Does that $3,500 figure cover only one iteration or the initial development and consequent iterations? Or does a company/individual have to pay another $3,500 per each revision?

betadreamer 12y ago

The term prototype seem ambiguous enough that will cause problems. How far does it have to done? How much bugs can it have? Cross-browser compatible? The problem with fixed pricing is that its not scalable.

robbiemitchell 12y ago

A business where most customers aren't qualified to be good customers. (Bad at defining, scoping, specs, estimating, having realistic expectations...)

guptaneil 12y ago

This is a cool idea. I've been experimenting with a similar model for design. Undesigned[1] will redesign or prototype a single page in one week for $1500. In your case, the greatest struggle is going to be supplying the marketplace. It makes sense to offer the service at unsustainable margins for now while you seed the market, so I wouldn't worry too much about all the comments talking about how unsustainable it is, and instead focus on the ones talking about the difficulty of building a marketplace. 1: http://www.undesigned.io http://www.undesigned.io

tga 12y ago
You're on good tracks, this is one of the things 37signals did in the beginning. " Want to make one of your site's pages better? Check out 37express: 1-page redesigns in 1-week. 37express is perfect for companies that need one more design comp, rapid professional prototyping of a wireframe or early-design concept, or just a quick, hassle-free, "how could this page be better?" creative spark. " http://37signals.com/better.php http://37signals.com/better.php

twodayslate 12y ago

I love that you allow people to "pay outside". I wish more services offered this. Just be sure that users understand the risks associated with "paying outside".

gedrap 12y ago

I like the idea of it, was thinking of something myself not too long ago. It's great because it provides big value, and your (i.e. betatype founder, contractor specialising on prototypes, etc) job is to highlight the value because it's not obvious for many. Doing that seems like a fun experience. Tell the "idea people" that you will sell some seemingly incomplete software which might need to be thrown away for $3500 and they will shrug their shoulders or laugh. Tell the same people that for $3500 you will help them to find out the potential of their idea for a small price, and they, in the ideal world, should love it. Many of us have worked on some project, which was sort of stealth project and founders spent loads of cash just to find out that no one needs it. All of it could have been avoided for $3500. But how close the real world is to the ideal world?

tluyben2 12y ago

$3500 is one week without talking too much to the client; not sure how to get something usable from that? If your idea is clear then sure, but (hopefully) most aren't and then you need a few days talking/sketching and starting up your favorite edi... oops $3500 gone.

bnt 12y ago

OK, what the actual fk? I register as a programmer and then a page shows up saying "Thank you for registering, now please EMAIL us your info - and we'll get back in touch". Fail on so many levels.

richardkeller 12y ago

I see a lot of comments here about the quality of work that can be delivered on a $3500 budget. While this may be considered a shoestring budget in developed countries, it is completely reasonable in developing countries such as South Africa. Here, $3500 equates to roughly R37'000, which would be considered a decent monthly salary for a mid-level to senior software developer (depending on location, of course). So from this perspective, a South African developer would easily be able to spend a month developing such a prototype, which is almost enough time to develop a functional system for a simple-enough use-case. I've personally developed a few pieces of software around this price-point: software that is actively in use now and not just a prototype, and whose code I don't consider completely terrible either.

Kiro 12y ago

I interpret this as "get a crappy MVP prototype for a very low price" which I think sounds great. I don't think the price is too low if that's the expected outcome.

seyz 12y ago

Nice product. 1 year ago, I launched "Two weeks to materialize your idea": http://munda.me http://munda.me This business model works well. Congrats.

Yunk 12y ago

> launchable web application prototype This sounds like an oxymoron which would imply the two sides of the transaction have separate expectations. As reasonable developers, do we build out the system, security, data backup plan of a "prototype"? As reasonable buyers do we "launch" an application without them?

pushkargaikwad 12y ago

I liked the idea, atleast Betatype will have less noise and better quality of developers/hackers. I wonders how will the quality be maintained though. Also there is thin line between what are beta products ? will you prescreen the projects posted ? also there are good chances that buyers will misuse the service due it being flat cost in nature. Expect people asking for N number of features and changing deliverable as well as unsatisfied buyers.

martin_bech 12y ago

Love it taking something thats seemingly a complex process and turning it into a product. Only thing is, they should be charging a lot more than 4%. Perhaps the 500 USD or a similar fee on top. If you provide value, charge for that value.

Angrycrow 12y ago

The premise alone makes me think that someone is trying to get some free money ... snake oil smell. Know what I mean? Why read this?

k-mcgrady 12y ago

What does the programmer screening process involve?

toppy 12y ago

Change description on login page unless you're Rokumo ;)

ing33k 12y ago

I have seen similar sites like this like 5k MVP, 10k MVP. wanted to know if pricing is the only difference .

netcan 12y ago

Sometimes a blank canvas is not a good thing. Twitter invented something entirely defined by its constraints. The process of negotiating, defining and developing an "prototype" between a client and a freelance developer is hard, for both sides. Often, neither are skilled at managing the process. Once you limit some aspect of the project, you can adjust the other aspects around the limitation and everything becomes simpler. It's a lot easier to scope a project when the scope needs to fit in a $3500 budget. Simplifying negotiations and decision making could be a big win. Choosing a developer by looking at a portfolio is a lot easier when the scope budgets are the same. I wonder if this idea could usefully be applied to something outside of software. How about a $3500 (or whatever) custom kitchen.

coreymaass 12y ago
For me, I use a one-hour skype session to talk every potential client "down off the ceiling". We discuss their idea, and then work together to define a scope I can do for $5,000 in 4 weeks (this is the service I offer at http://builtFromIdeas.com http://builtFromIdeas.com )
- lamby 12y ago
  Could you go into more detail about how you deal with the initial stages? What if the client wants more, eg. "without this feature it doesn't make sense", etc. Thanks in advance.

sesm 12y ago

Spotted a typo: http://betatype.io/whyapply http://betatype.io/whyapply says: > All job postings are required to be as clear and specific as possible, and they're required to pay 1/4 ($625) up front. This points to conclusion, that the author initially set the price to $2500, but changed to $3500 later.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

ValentineC 12y ago

Looks like this is something interesting that came up from cwilson's suggestion on one of brandonhsiao's earlier submissions: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7606963 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7606963

zensavona 12y ago

This is one of the most interesting things I've seen as a Show HN in ages... Awesome! I can't wait to see how this plays out, and how scared people are to tell each other about what they're building with it, while it's begin built (e.g. if listings for ideas are public to developers?)

bitJericho 12y ago

It turns out you have to submit a CV and portfolio. If I knew I was applying for a job I wouldn't have submitted my email :/

mikkom 12y ago

You make it pretty hard to register. I don't want to send all kinds of details about myself when checking if a service is worth my time and I don't think I'm the only one.

adamcw 12y ago
Show stopper for me as well. I wanted to see if they had any projects that would be fun for a night/weekend type thing, but they are asking a lot of info without giving enough back to make me feel comfortable sharing.

ivan_ah 12y ago

I really like this idea, and in combination with the bitnami stacks, the "handover" to the client could be very easy too. [1] https://bitnami.com/stacks https://bitnami.com/stacks

leorocky 12y ago

This would only makes sense to me if I could acquire and complete 3 prototypes a month which would be an unlikely outcome with an insane amount of work with little hope of making more.

jnhuynh 12y ago

Did anyone else notice that the "Apply as programmer" sign up page doesn't use HTTPS? Is it just me or this is the case for everyone. http://betatype.io/createacc/hacker http://betatype.io/createacc/hacker It stopped my sign up immediately.

eauden 12y ago

No SSL? Not even for sign up and sign in? How is my info (user, password, e-mail, name, banking info) going to be "protected"? Has people given up on SSL (and any security for that matter) already because of Heartbleed? I guess I can hear some people talking: "We don't need SSL! Not having it is pretty much the same, but with less overhead!" Seriously, without SSL, you are Beta at best. And if you have been operating like this for a while, well that's terrible... Your users should be very concerned.

Jean-Philipe 12y ago

I've tried to contact them a few times via their application form and via email, but no response. Has anybody actually get into the program?