19 ms·

Hello, Stranger

198 points by wallflower 13y ago

zobzu 13y ago
way too tired to bother with people attempting to communicate while communing. thats why people talk on planes or longer range trains, etc. you'd really want to feel required to talk to stranger every day of the week, morning/evening? Not me.
- graeme 13y ago
  The study actually accounted for your opinion. It said that people thought they would prefer to sit alone, then had an improved experience by talking. You may still be right, but empiricism would suggest you should test your belief by making small talk with a stranger and see if you feel better or worse.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - lnanek2 13y ago
    Yes, but in the study they were being paid to talk.
    - gradstudent 13y ago
      Also: (i) the conversations were once-offs; (ii) they were part of a study, which might have altered the perceived well-being of the participants (for Science! huzzah! etc.).
  - watwut 13y ago
    I found occasional unexpected chat with strangers is usually pleasant. However, I also avoid places where such chats happen often, because they become tiring pretty quickly. First short talk in waiting room for doctor was pleasant. When it turned out they are too frequent, I started to look for isolated places. I guess it is different if you are lonely and need to talk, but I was not lonely at the time. My need to read or being lost in my own thoughts was much higher. Essentially, if I had to spend that visit (they were long) by small talks, I was tired in the evening and preferred to watch tv and be alone. If I could be left alone, I found it much easier to interact with family and real friends in the evening. The second mode makes me much happier in the long term (plus I get to keep long term relationships). I think that this is the biggest problem of these studies. They measure short term happiness burst from isolated events. It is like going on a short ski trip, finding it pleasant and then assuming you would be happier skiing on the very same hill every day all year. Maybe yes, but most likely not.
    - zobzu 13y ago
      yeah occasional is fine. forced-due-to-social-rules isn't.
- Cthulhu_ 13y ago
  Tired? Sounds like a symptom to me really; do you get enough sleep? Caffeine dependency? Alternatively, maybe you meant "tiring", i.e. it costs a lot of energy to engage in conversations / social interactions, depending on where you stand on the introvert / extrovert scale.
js2 13y ago
When I fly, about half the time I end up in conversation with a seat mate. I have never regretted any of the conversations I've had. And it sure does make the flight go faster. I don't ever force it and it's obvious when someone doesn't want to talk - fascinating in those circumstances that I can sit next to someone for 5 hours with nary a word passed between us.
graeme 13y ago
I've started doing this. I've never had a negative experience, and it's usually been a lot of fun. If someone isn't interested, it's obvious, and you stop. I highly recommend trying it. Lots of smiles on both sides.
gregimba 13y ago
Relevant username.
_delirium 13y ago
I wonder how this would vary between countries. Generally the cultural norm in the Nordic region isn't positive on striking up conversation with random people; it's seen as a bit of a violation of people's personal space (exceptions apply to bars). There's some kind of joke I don't fully remember about people who start conversations with strangers, which has the punchline: "he's either drunk, insane, or foreign". The article says that those are "commuter norms" in Chicago also, but my own experience is that Americans are much more likely to strike up a conversation in public, even at places like a bus stop or in a grocery check-out line, which would be considered very weird in Denmark or (especially) Finland. When I lived in Santa Cruz, California, on the other hand, it was seen as a bit weird not to at least exchange a little small-talk in some of those situations.
- namenotrequired 13y ago
  Here in the Netherlands it's not a popular thing to do either, though most people don't mind it, they just would rather not in case someone minds, but they usually don't. I'm in luck that my commute - both to university and work - includes the train from the Amsterdam airport to the central station, so I'm among tourists all the time there. It generally does seem easier to strike up a conversation with them. But I wonder if that's because they're from a different culture, or just because they're on holiday rather than on their daily commute.
  - zorbo 13y ago
    I'm Dutch and my girlfriend is Russian, and she was absolutely amazed at how often and easily we make a little smalltalk with complete strangers here in the Netherlands. It may not seem to be a popular thing to do here, but compared to Russia we're very chatty and friendly with strangers.
    - Cthulhu_ 13y ago
      I had a colleague who did the Trans-Siberian line once, she shared a cabin with some Russians who broke out the vodka and shared - they had a blast, :p
leorocky 13y ago
I may be alone in this but I don't want anyone to talk to me. I don't even want people to talk around me but that's probably not anything I can expect. I want to read my book. I want to be left alone. In Japan it's very much frowned upon to talk on the train, at least in Tokyo. I kind of like that system. Why? I'm just not friendly. I don't enjoy talking. It's filled with social anxiety and if I want to stop talking I can't just stop. I can't just say "you know what I don't want to talk anymore" and then look away in the middle of a conversation. I don't want to spend 20 minutes or half the day wondering how I came across in the conversation. I definitely don't want my time dictated by others. I had a friend actually get mad at me when I said I would ignore someone who struck a conversation with me on BART, he felt I was obligated to respond to not make that person feel shitty, but maybe that person should just have noticed that my body language is all about being left the fuck alone.
- waynecochran 13y ago
  Hi how you doing? Do you post here often? How about this weather huh?
  - tripzilch 13y ago
    Can't you see I'm reading?! (your comment)
- gradstudent 13y ago
  Preach it, brother. I would personally find it really awkward and unpleasant if every time I got on a train or bus some random tried to engage me in conversation. Just leave me alone so I can enjoy being by myself!
  - pre 13y ago
    Yeah, I think that too. Random train-strangers aren't going to be as interesting as my book I wouldn't think. But then the article reckoned everyone in their experiment also thought that, and yet turned out to be wrong, their predictions of their own reaction were mistaken. Guess the only way to be sure our predictions of our own reactions are correct is to test 'em now and then.
sopooneo 13y ago
It's possible these atypical experiences were like candy: a great treat if rare, but you'd prefer never having it to having it for every meal.
- arjie 13y ago
  That's a great hypothesis. Also, I often enjoy having short conversations on the BART if someone strikes them up with me, but I'm not so sure I want to spend the whole ride talking. This happens often enough if you read because people often remark on the book you're reading. It's okay to then have a short conversation that starts off from that so long as it's occasional. If every single time I got on the train someone wanted to talk to me, I might wear sunglasses and plug earphones in.
hawkharris 13y ago
When I was in college I heard a story on NPR about a journalist named the Georgia Rambler. He would journey throughout Georgia on a whim, stopping to talk to strangers. [0] Being a journalism student in the South at the time, I thought, "Hey, that sounds like a fun experiment." A group of friends and I started an informal club called Map Dart. The premise was to toss a dart at a map, travel to wherever it landed and talk to strangers in the city or town to capture their stories. We received a lot of negative feedback from people who weren't interested in journalism. Mostly, they seemed to predisposed to think that the strangers in rural Georgia and northern Florida would shoe us away from their properties. Some even joked that we would be shot. The truth was something much different. Sure, the trips were initially awkward. We would arrive at a small-town diner, look around, sigh and think, "Okay, who's going to break the ice..." But once we got talking, the strangers were always welcoming. The owners of a tobacco farm and a turpentine factory even showed us around their properties. [1] For me, the experiences of MapDart validate the research in this story. The unpleasantness of interacting with strangers almost always has to do with that initial "ice breaking" moment. It's relatively smooth sailing once the ice is broken. [0] http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/413/georgia-rambler http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/413/g... [1] http://matadornetwork.com/bnt/the-secret-to-growing-older/ http://matadornetwork.com/bnt/the-secret-to-growing-older/
- hadoukenio 13y ago
  > When I was in college I heard a story on NPR about a journalist named the Georgia Rambler. He would journey throughout Georgia on a whim, stopping to talk to strangers. Australia's SBS television station had a show called Front Up which did exactly this. They would randomly walk through the streets, stop and interview people. Random people, fantastic stories: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEF01EAB281F220EC
- chadillac 13y ago
  Social engineering uses this a lot. It's rare and catches people of guard when a stranger strikes up a conversation and positioning yourself as friendly and attentive about listening and putting the emphasis on the stranger and not yourself can really open a lot of doors. Compliments, reiterating the persons information but leaving it open ended allowing them room to elaborate, etc. People love talking about themselves and they love people that make it easy for them to do. If you haven't already read Dale Carnigie's "How to win friends and influence people" that book literally changed the way I communicate with people.
septerr 13y ago
"The great thing about strangers is that we tend to put on our happy face when we meet them, reserving our crankier side for the people we know and love." This is so true. It is such an irrational behavior on our part, yet we all seem to do this.
- jessaustin 13y ago
  Evo-psych enthusiasts would probably tell us it's adaptive: you know what responses to expect from people you know. Frown at a complete stranger, and he might beat you up.
Lambent_Cactus 13y ago
"One group was asked to talk to the stranger who sat down next to them on the train that morning. Other people were told to follow standard commuter norms, keeping to themselves. By the end of the train ride, commuters who talked to a stranger reported having a more positive experience than those who had sat in solitude." What about the passengers they accosted? The no talking norm on public transit isn't meant to protect the shy from having to initiate conversations, since that's easy not to do. It's to protect people from strangers who want to but in. I'm sure every loudmouth who tried to strike up a conversation seated next to me on an airplane thought it was a fine idea, but I would have been happier to be left alone.
- jacquesgt 13y ago
  It’s covered in the article: "The benefits of connecting with others also turn out to be contagious. Dr. Epley and Ms. Schroeder found that when one person took the initiative to speak to another in a waiting room, both people reported having a more positive experience. Far from annoying people by violating their personal bubbles, reaching out to strangers may improve their day, too."
  - neurobro 13y ago
    Now add a fifth of whiskey to the experiment and have the conversation start with "Ey, you, c'mear, y'know what?" (That's how some of us perceive random strangers engaging us in frivolous chit-chat, regardless of their BAC.)
    - gknoy 13y ago
      Well maybe if you were offering to share it, it might work. :D
- rando289 13y ago
  > What about the passengers they accosted? Speaking to a stranger != accosting. Welcome to the internet, where you can be bold enough to bash well meaning strangers who spoke to you, yet not bold enough in real life to simply decline a conversation.
efnysien 13y ago
Is this behind a paywall for anyone else?
- jdale27 13y ago
  Yes, but you can usually get around the paywall by visiting the site through Google News. Just go to Google News and search for the title of the article.
  - jtanderson 13y ago
    You can also just disable javascript on that page, since the text is hidden _after_ the site is laid out. Alternatively, you can "view source" to get the plaintext, which has the full article.
    - bluejellybean 13y ago
      You can also open the page in a "private window" on firefox. I haven't tried in chrome but I assume you would get the same result.
      - SnydenBitchy 13y ago
        You could also just pay, if you find yourself on nytimes often enough to hit the paywall. Crazy, I know.
        nfoz 13y ago
        Though there would also be something tiresome about an article-aggregation site like HN that just links through to a bunch of paywalls. Sort of a different thing, then.
lnanek2 13y ago
I really hate when people talk to me on the trains. I usually have a book I'm reading, computer to work on, etc.. Yet it's not polite to tell them I don't want to talk. Often short one word answers aren't enough to clue them in either. The article claims we should sit down and talk to strangers, but what if the stranger is similarly forced to respond and doesn't want to?
- pyk 13y ago
  Certainly this article was a bit heavy handed in its recommendations -- in my experience, there is a spectrum of people, with a spectrum of feelings about random interactions (some of which can even change from day to day, depending on mood). Those personal boundaries should definitely be respected if tested and the stranger does not want to talk. I have seen times when those boundaries have been crossed (particularly when alcohol is involved). It is odd the author did not go into any detail about unwanted interaction, and only focused on extra interaction which supported her hypothesis, without warning for situations which may turn uncomfortable and worse off for the stranger.
- gilgoomesh 13y ago
  I agree with you. For reasons I've never understood, people try to talk to me on trams in my city once or twice a week. Maybe I look more welcoming than I feel. Some of these conversations are awkward for abnormal reasons (the other person has some kind of mental or dependency issues) but even when the other person is normal: I don't like it. Simply: I don't like idle chatter. I would rather sit in silence. Yes, I could simply tell people I don't want to talk. I've done this but unless you actually have a book to hide behind you're likely to endure the rest of the journey being regularly glared at like you're the worst person they've ever met. This doesn't apply to people with actual questions. That's fine – you can answer the question, be helpful and follow up on the topic or not at your choosing. But for random unsolicited conversation, I think the cultural norm of avoiding idle chat with strangers is helpful and positive.
  - derefr 13y ago
    The usual solution is headphones. And if you're not the type of person who enjoys constantly listening to music, well--the headphones don't necessarily have to be plugged into anything (besides your pocket.)
jackmaney 13y ago
"By the end of the train ride, commuters who talked to a stranger reported having a more positive experience than those who had sat in solitude." And what about the people who had conversation thrust upon them by a stranger during the train ride?
- avalaunch 13y ago
  Near the end of the article: "The benefits of connecting with others also turn out to be contagious. Dr. Epley and Ms. Schroeder found that when one person took the initiative to speak to another in a waiting room, both people reported having a more positive experience. Far from annoying people by violating their personal bubbles, reaching out to strangers may improve their day, too."
fblp 13y ago
I have a theory that there is more harmony in cities where everyone takes public transport. It breaks down the divide between classes as people have the opportunity to interact with someone different to them every day.
kawera 13y ago
Another interesting article: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D05E4DF1130F937A2575AC0A9629C8B63&pagewanted=all http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D05E4DF1130F...
- tripzilch 13y ago
  'Excuse Me. May I Have Your Seat?'; Revisiting a Social Experiment, And the Fear That Goes With It That was an interesting article indeed. I figured I'd just post the title so people have some idea what they're clicking on.
  - orangecat 13y ago
    That is a fascinating article and experiment, although it doesn't surprise me that most people gave up their seats. If I were on a subway and somebody asked for my seat, my highest-probability hypotheses are that they have a physical condition that isn't immediately obvious, or that they're just weird. In the first case I should obviously get up, and in the second case it's not worth trying to determine if they'll have a negative reaction if I refuse.
RighteousFervor 13y ago
Last summer I took the Rejection Therapy[1] challenge. For anyone unaware of what that is, it's a game where you're supposed to get rejected by someone in person for 30 days consecutively. So I'm on a crowded bus, sitting beside a middle age woman with a severe look on her face. I still had to get rejected that day, so I opened up a can of salted cashews that was in my grocery bag and nervously offered her some. She seemed startled at first and declined (I got my rejection), but then thanked me in a thick German accent. She said she immigrated from Germany to Canada 11 years ago and did not have any friends here. She also lived at the same house all this time and not once did her neighbors introduce themselves or say hello. She said it was rare that a stranger would be kind to her. Her intense expression was gone and we chatted for the rest of the ride. I'm glad I got out of my comfort zone and made contact with this random stranger. It made her happy and me happy too. If you want a way to meet new people, Rejection Therapy is ideal. Many of the rejection cards require interacting with strangers. [1] http://rejectiontherapy.com http://rejectiontherapy.com
- hhenn 13y ago
  Did it change how you feel about interacting with people in general? This is the first time I've heard of "rejection therapy". It interests me but maybe it approaches the problem in a destructive/negative way (that is, keep doing something uncomfortable until it isn't)? I've learned to deal with rejection by reminding myself that people have their own problems and embarrassing histories; they aren't really that different from me. Thinking about it in a humanistic way like that, instead of a negative/destructive way, lets me get over things immediately.
  - RighteousFervor 13y ago
    Did it change how you feel about interacting with people in general? I'm more at ease initiating conversations and making small talk. The change over how I used to be is huge.
- anishkothari 13y ago
  Thanks for sharing this, this seems like a great experiment!
mkhattab 13y ago
It seems to me that it would be difficult talking with strangers on public transport considering most people have smart phones. I've noticed this with younger people. Some cannot sit down for more than, say, 10 minutes without having to look at their phone.
Tiktaalik 13y ago
I almost never chat with people on transit, but while commuting via bicycle I've often had conversations with fellow riders. I wonder what the difference is that encourages conversation. I guess maybe the likely shared interest in bicycles is a good conversation starter?
- collyw 13y ago
  Interesting. I can't imagine having a conversation whilst cycling, but then I do tend to go fairly fast a lot of the time, so I am concentrating on not hitting anything. Though I did think something similar reading these comments. Living in a city with lots of people it is rare to interact. As soon as you leave the city, and do some outdoor stuff, hiking / mountain biking / kayak, its normal to speak to stranger, and kind of rude if you don't even acknowledge them.
mildavw 13y ago
I frequently strike up conversations with strangers, cashiers, clerks, etc. I offer to take group photos so the cameraperson can be in the shot, like, several times a month. Why? I've never really thought about it, but it's probably for the very reason revealed in the study. It's just a habit that makes me a happier person.
chockablock 13y ago
At grave risk of downvoting: eponysterical much?
kijin 13y ago
> By the end of the train ride, commuters who talked to a stranger reported having a more positive experience than those who had sat in solitude. Explanation 1: Either there are more extraverts than introverts in Chicago, or more extraverts volunteered to participate in the experiment (selection bias). Explanation 2: When it comes to deriving pleasure from short, shallow interaction with a random stranger, there's not much difference between extraverts and introverts. Hell, I'm officially diagnosed with Asperger's and I still enjoy those quick interactions. I just happen to be not very good at it. As the article itself suggests: The great thing about strangers is that we tend to put on our happy face when we meet them, reserving our crankier side for the people we know and love. But there's one thing that the article fails to mention. As an autistic introvert, I'm still capable of deriving pleasure from talking with strangers from time to time, but the need to put on a happy face and consciously maintain it also puts a great strain on me. Too much mask-wearing makes me exhausted. At the end of the day, I no longer even have the energy to conjure up a passable mask, so I return to my usual cranky self. In other words, the momentary burst of happiness has a significant energy cost, and the ROI for introverts may be much lower (or even negative) than it is for extraverts.
jordanlev 13y ago
This seems to ignore the fact that some people are more introverted than extroverted (meaning how people "recharge" -- either via "alone time" or by talking to others, respectively). I am more introvert than extrovert, and when I've worked at jobs where I've commuted back and forth, I loved the alone time I had on the bus or train to and from work -- it really helped me regain some mental energy before and after work. If someone started talking to me it would just drain that away, and I'd much rather save that energy for coworkers or loved ones.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
HenryMc 13y ago
I recently moved from Christchurch, New Zealand to Melbourne Australia. Christchurch has a population of about 350,000 and the only form of public transport is busses (which I have almost never needed to take). Melbourne has a population of about 4,500,000 with trams, busses and trains. On week days my commute involves a half hour train ride and a 5 minute bus trip either way. While most people are glued to their phones, I purposely avoid using mine as much as possible. I just try to be as friendly as possible.
dtf 13y ago
I have to wonder - is this a Starbucks promotional piece? Why is a Starbucks gift card so effective? Why is a Starbucks cafe the perfect place to study these kinds of interactions? Is the Starbucks brand something that we, as readers, need to connect in our minds with the core company concepts of conviviality and happiness? Would sponsoring a scientific study help with this? Or am I just too cynical for this world? Maybe I need a latte to calm down.
- axanoeychron 13y ago
  I assumed that the study was targeting people who have the routine of commuting and getting a takeaway coffee near the workplace. I could be wrong but it should equally apply to any other coffee shop in a location near offices and public transport (like a metro).
Tenoke 13y ago
I suspect that these studies have the limitation, that only more extroverted people agree to do such things for a $5 gift card, while the introverts just say no (I'm using the terms extrovert and introvert loosely here). And yeah, of course the extroverts would feel happier when talking to people, while those who wouldn't feel so rarely even participate in the study [if my suspicion is right].
slyall 13y ago
This might work well in theory but in practice this is how it will work: Target - female, attractive, youngish Initiator - male, single, below average attractiveness
noisy_boy 13y ago
Be careful what you ask for. If you ever get the chance to travel Indian railways, say, in a non-airconditioned class (which is cheaper and hence has more "average" people), you will inevitably end up chatting about politics (typically with the older generation), railway route trivia (I seriously don't know why that is SO interesting to my dad's generation), movies/cricket and everything else under the sun. And if you are a foreigner, god help you. By the time you disembark, you'll have a group of 5-6 people who just digged your life history including how much money you make, out of you. Except shitty toilets (no pun intended) and general hygiene issues, it is a very interesting way to travel.
ojbyrne 13y ago
“to be looked at as though air." Occasionally I'm a grammar/spelling nazi so I feel honored to find a typo in such a great piece of writing.
dan_bk 13y ago
I'd say for us "nerds", this knowledge is so central. But I also think it really starts to apply to everybody now, as we learn to stay glued to our various electronic devices, wherever we are, whatever we do, whomever we're with.
icco 13y ago
I still suck at talking to strangers, the concept scares me greatly, I've never been entirely sure why. Anxiety maybe? My biggest breakthrough was realizing in college, that I could go to a coffee shop and order a cup of coffee and talk to the cashier, and they were usually very friendly. So, now when anyone is serving or helping me (waitress, barista, security guard, guy who empties the trash cans, whatever) I say hi and ask "how's it going". It's not a deep interaction, and it's not huge, but considering the number of days I used to go without saying anything to anyone, it's a nice improvement.
frade33 13y ago
I just can not keep quite. even worse, i end up exchanging cell numbers. And the experience is like, I am on my college bus, traveling with my fellow mates for a picnic trip. where everyone would secretly wish that the journey just does not come to an end and we keep having fun. I am baffled they needed a 'scientific' research to figure this out.
juliend2 13y ago
Since 6 weeks now I'm saying Hello ("Bonjour", since I'm in Quebec) to at least one stranger every day. During the first days it was really difficult for me to break the ice, and it sometimes felt awkward and eventually (after 1-2 weeks) it became a second nature. I smile all the time when I'm outside and look at people more easily, in order to ease a non-awkward "Bonjour". I still have some people ignoring me or just mutter a barely recognizable response and avoiding me, but it feels good every time I'm done for the day (having saluted 1 person). It's an efficient habit to overcome shyness I think. My next goal: starting a conversation with at least one stranger everyday. And like the article says, it kind of forces me (the smiling, eye contact, etc) to not just look happy but actually feel happier. And just overcoming the fear of talking to strangers is liberating.
aufreak3 13y ago
I used to frequent the bay area around 2000 when I worked for a Singapore based startup who setup their HQ there. As I didnt have a driving license, I used to take public buses from San Mateo to Burlingame, and make train trips to SF. I was given the standard cautionary rules by many, but I have to say that in all that commuting, I never felt threatened even once. Normal folks commuted by bus too. However, there were also quite a few who we were "challenged" in various ways, but still had regular jobs at cafes and such. Since my commute schedule was fixed, I became familiar with them and realized that though there wasn't much conversation going on, the regulars were all familiar with each other. On one occasion, one guy sat next to me and poured his heart out about how his girl friend ditched him years ago and how upset he's been over it for many years. Then, when a stop came, he wordlessly walked out the door and held it open for one of the regulars. This lady had her eyes to the floor the whole time and after she'd got down, said "bye" to him. He returned a "take care", came back to his seat and resumed his story with me. I admit I was somewhat uneasy on the bus commutes initially, but this incident totally changed me. Actually, I'd never seen this quality of spontaneous kindness among "normal" folks during my stay there .. and was humbled greatly myself. I always recall this incident (and all those commutes) fondly. I now think most "normal" city folks who curse each other on every misstep, cant tolerate a couple of seconds delay on the road, who never seem to get a thought to extend themselves out of their pitifully small and limited bodies to someone else; as the folks who are "challenged". So, coming back on topic, at least start a conversation with the regulars on your commutes.
afarrell 13y ago
I suspect this would only work with men. I'm told that for women, every interaction with a random stranger could be the start of a physical assault. Then again, the author of the article is named Elizabeth, so I'm kinda confused.
scotty79 13y ago
My rank of unpleasantness: 1. Being conversed to badly. 2. Being around people who ignore you. 3. Being conversed to pleasantly. 4. Not being around people that might potentially converse to you badly. The trouble with this research is that it compared being around people who ignore you with being around people with positive interaction (that turned out almost always ok). It didn't compare being around people who ignore you and being around people that converse with you pleasantly with not being around people. Also it failed to take into account how slightly pleasant interactions tend to fade away, but unpleasant interaction tends to burn a scar in ones memory that can hurt for years.

198 points by wallflower 13y ago

zobzu 13y ago

way too tired to bother with people attempting to communicate while communing. thats why people talk on planes or longer range trains, etc. you'd really want to feel required to talk to stranger every day of the week, morning/evening? Not me.

graeme 13y ago
The study actually accounted for your opinion. It said that people thought they would prefer to sit alone, then had an improved experience by talking. You may still be right, but empiricism would suggest you should test your belief by making small talk with a stranger and see if you feel better or worse.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- lnanek2 13y ago
  Yes, but in the study they were being paid to talk.
  - gradstudent 13y ago
    Also: (i) the conversations were once-offs; (ii) they were part of a study, which might have altered the perceived well-being of the participants (for Science! huzzah! etc.).
- watwut 13y ago
  I found occasional unexpected chat with strangers is usually pleasant. However, I also avoid places where such chats happen often, because they become tiring pretty quickly. First short talk in waiting room for doctor was pleasant. When it turned out they are too frequent, I started to look for isolated places. I guess it is different if you are lonely and need to talk, but I was not lonely at the time. My need to read or being lost in my own thoughts was much higher. Essentially, if I had to spend that visit (they were long) by small talks, I was tired in the evening and preferred to watch tv and be alone. If I could be left alone, I found it much easier to interact with family and real friends in the evening. The second mode makes me much happier in the long term (plus I get to keep long term relationships). I think that this is the biggest problem of these studies. They measure short term happiness burst from isolated events. It is like going on a short ski trip, finding it pleasant and then assuming you would be happier skiing on the very same hill every day all year. Maybe yes, but most likely not.
  - zobzu 13y ago
    yeah occasional is fine. forced-due-to-social-rules isn't.
Cthulhu_ 13y ago
Tired? Sounds like a symptom to me really; do you get enough sleep? Caffeine dependency? Alternatively, maybe you meant "tiring", i.e. it costs a lot of energy to engage in conversations / social interactions, depending on where you stand on the introvert / extrovert scale.

js2 13y ago

When I fly, about half the time I end up in conversation with a seat mate. I have never regretted any of the conversations I've had. And it sure does make the flight go faster. I don't ever force it and it's obvious when someone doesn't want to talk - fascinating in those circumstances that I can sit next to someone for 5 hours with nary a word passed between us.

graeme 13y ago

I've started doing this. I've never had a negative experience, and it's usually been a lot of fun. If someone isn't interested, it's obvious, and you stop. I highly recommend trying it. Lots of smiles on both sides.

gregimba 13y ago

Relevant username.

_delirium 13y ago

I wonder how this would vary between countries. Generally the cultural norm in the Nordic region isn't positive on striking up conversation with random people; it's seen as a bit of a violation of people's personal space (exceptions apply to bars). There's some kind of joke I don't fully remember about people who start conversations with strangers, which has the punchline: "he's either drunk, insane, or foreign". The article says that those are "commuter norms" in Chicago also, but my own experience is that Americans are much more likely to strike up a conversation in public, even at places like a bus stop or in a grocery check-out line, which would be considered very weird in Denmark or (especially) Finland. When I lived in Santa Cruz, California, on the other hand, it was seen as a bit weird not to at least exchange a little small-talk in some of those situations.

namenotrequired 13y ago
Here in the Netherlands it's not a popular thing to do either, though most people don't mind it, they just would rather not in case someone minds, but they usually don't. I'm in luck that my commute - both to university and work - includes the train from the Amsterdam airport to the central station, so I'm among tourists all the time there. It generally does seem easier to strike up a conversation with them. But I wonder if that's because they're from a different culture, or just because they're on holiday rather than on their daily commute.
- zorbo 13y ago
  I'm Dutch and my girlfriend is Russian, and she was absolutely amazed at how often and easily we make a little smalltalk with complete strangers here in the Netherlands. It may not seem to be a popular thing to do here, but compared to Russia we're very chatty and friendly with strangers.
  - Cthulhu_ 13y ago
    I had a colleague who did the Trans-Siberian line once, she shared a cabin with some Russians who broke out the vodka and shared - they had a blast, :p

leorocky 13y ago

I may be alone in this but I don't want anyone to talk to me. I don't even want people to talk around me but that's probably not anything I can expect. I want to read my book. I want to be left alone. In Japan it's very much frowned upon to talk on the train, at least in Tokyo. I kind of like that system. Why? I'm just not friendly. I don't enjoy talking. It's filled with social anxiety and if I want to stop talking I can't just stop. I can't just say "you know what I don't want to talk anymore" and then look away in the middle of a conversation. I don't want to spend 20 minutes or half the day wondering how I came across in the conversation. I definitely don't want my time dictated by others. I had a friend actually get mad at me when I said I would ignore someone who struck a conversation with me on BART, he felt I was obligated to respond to not make that person feel shitty, but maybe that person should just have noticed that my body language is all about being left the fuck alone.

waynecochran 13y ago
Hi how you doing? Do you post here often? How about this weather huh?
- tripzilch 13y ago
  Can't you see I'm reading?! (your comment)
gradstudent 13y ago
Preach it, brother. I would personally find it really awkward and unpleasant if every time I got on a train or bus some random tried to engage me in conversation. Just leave me alone so I can enjoy being by myself!
- pre 13y ago
  Yeah, I think that too. Random train-strangers aren't going to be as interesting as my book I wouldn't think. But then the article reckoned everyone in their experiment also thought that, and yet turned out to be wrong, their predictions of their own reaction were mistaken. Guess the only way to be sure our predictions of our own reactions are correct is to test 'em now and then.

sopooneo 13y ago

It's possible these atypical experiences were like candy: a great treat if rare, but you'd prefer never having it to having it for every meal.

arjie 13y ago
That's a great hypothesis. Also, I often enjoy having short conversations on the BART if someone strikes them up with me, but I'm not so sure I want to spend the whole ride talking. This happens often enough if you read because people often remark on the book you're reading. It's okay to then have a short conversation that starts off from that so long as it's occasional. If every single time I got on the train someone wanted to talk to me, I might wear sunglasses and plug earphones in.

hawkharris 13y ago

When I was in college I heard a story on NPR about a journalist named the Georgia Rambler. He would journey throughout Georgia on a whim, stopping to talk to strangers. [0] Being a journalism student in the South at the time, I thought, "Hey, that sounds like a fun experiment." A group of friends and I started an informal club called Map Dart. The premise was to toss a dart at a map, travel to wherever it landed and talk to strangers in the city or town to capture their stories. We received a lot of negative feedback from people who weren't interested in journalism. Mostly, they seemed to predisposed to think that the strangers in rural Georgia and northern Florida would shoe us away from their properties. Some even joked that we would be shot. The truth was something much different. Sure, the trips were initially awkward. We would arrive at a small-town diner, look around, sigh and think, "Okay, who's going to break the ice..." But once we got talking, the strangers were always welcoming. The owners of a tobacco farm and a turpentine factory even showed us around their properties. [1] For me, the experiences of MapDart validate the research in this story. The unpleasantness of interacting with strangers almost always has to do with that initial "ice breaking" moment. It's relatively smooth sailing once the ice is broken. [0] http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/413/georgia-rambler http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/413/g... [1] http://matadornetwork.com/bnt/the-secret-to-growing-older/ http://matadornetwork.com/bnt/the-secret-to-growing-older/

hadoukenio 13y ago
> When I was in college I heard a story on NPR about a journalist named the Georgia Rambler. He would journey throughout Georgia on a whim, stopping to talk to strangers. Australia's SBS television station had a show called Front Up which did exactly this. They would randomly walk through the streets, stop and interview people. Random people, fantastic stories: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEF01EAB281F220EC
chadillac 13y ago
Social engineering uses this a lot. It's rare and catches people of guard when a stranger strikes up a conversation and positioning yourself as friendly and attentive about listening and putting the emphasis on the stranger and not yourself can really open a lot of doors. Compliments, reiterating the persons information but leaving it open ended allowing them room to elaborate, etc. People love talking about themselves and they love people that make it easy for them to do. If you haven't already read Dale Carnigie's "How to win friends and influence people" that book literally changed the way I communicate with people.

septerr 13y ago

"The great thing about strangers is that we tend to put on our happy face when we meet them, reserving our crankier side for the people we know and love." This is so true. It is such an irrational behavior on our part, yet we all seem to do this.

jessaustin 13y ago
Evo-psych enthusiasts would probably tell us it's adaptive: you know what responses to expect from people you know. Frown at a complete stranger, and he might beat you up.

Lambent_Cactus 13y ago

"One group was asked to talk to the stranger who sat down next to them on the train that morning. Other people were told to follow standard commuter norms, keeping to themselves. By the end of the train ride, commuters who talked to a stranger reported having a more positive experience than those who had sat in solitude." What about the passengers they accosted? The no talking norm on public transit isn't meant to protect the shy from having to initiate conversations, since that's easy not to do. It's to protect people from strangers who want to but in. I'm sure every loudmouth who tried to strike up a conversation seated next to me on an airplane thought it was a fine idea, but I would have been happier to be left alone.

jacquesgt 13y ago
It’s covered in the article: "The benefits of connecting with others also turn out to be contagious. Dr. Epley and Ms. Schroeder found that when one person took the initiative to speak to another in a waiting room, both people reported having a more positive experience. Far from annoying people by violating their personal bubbles, reaching out to strangers may improve their day, too."
- neurobro 13y ago
  Now add a fifth of whiskey to the experiment and have the conversation start with "Ey, you, c'mear, y'know what?" (That's how some of us perceive random strangers engaging us in frivolous chit-chat, regardless of their BAC.)
  - gknoy 13y ago
    Well maybe if you were offering to share it, it might work. :D
rando289 13y ago
> What about the passengers they accosted? Speaking to a stranger != accosting. Welcome to the internet, where you can be bold enough to bash well meaning strangers who spoke to you, yet not bold enough in real life to simply decline a conversation.

efnysien 13y ago

Is this behind a paywall for anyone else?

jdale27 13y ago
Yes, but you can usually get around the paywall by visiting the site through Google News. Just go to Google News and search for the title of the article.
- jtanderson 13y ago
  You can also just disable javascript on that page, since the text is hidden _after_ the site is laid out. Alternatively, you can "view source" to get the plaintext, which has the full article.
  - bluejellybean 13y ago
    You can also open the page in a "private window" on firefox. I haven't tried in chrome but I assume you would get the same result.
    - SnydenBitchy 13y ago
      You could also just pay, if you find yourself on nytimes often enough to hit the paywall. Crazy, I know.
      - nfoz 13y ago
        Though there would also be something tiresome about an article-aggregation site like HN that just links through to a bunch of paywalls. Sort of a different thing, then.

lnanek2 13y ago

I really hate when people talk to me on the trains. I usually have a book I'm reading, computer to work on, etc.. Yet it's not polite to tell them I don't want to talk. Often short one word answers aren't enough to clue them in either. The article claims we should sit down and talk to strangers, but what if the stranger is similarly forced to respond and doesn't want to?

pyk 13y ago
Certainly this article was a bit heavy handed in its recommendations -- in my experience, there is a spectrum of people, with a spectrum of feelings about random interactions (some of which can even change from day to day, depending on mood). Those personal boundaries should definitely be respected if tested and the stranger does not want to talk. I have seen times when those boundaries have been crossed (particularly when alcohol is involved). It is odd the author did not go into any detail about unwanted interaction, and only focused on extra interaction which supported her hypothesis, without warning for situations which may turn uncomfortable and worse off for the stranger.
gilgoomesh 13y ago
I agree with you. For reasons I've never understood, people try to talk to me on trams in my city once or twice a week. Maybe I look more welcoming than I feel. Some of these conversations are awkward for abnormal reasons (the other person has some kind of mental or dependency issues) but even when the other person is normal: I don't like it. Simply: I don't like idle chatter. I would rather sit in silence. Yes, I could simply tell people I don't want to talk. I've done this but unless you actually have a book to hide behind you're likely to endure the rest of the journey being regularly glared at like you're the worst person they've ever met. This doesn't apply to people with actual questions. That's fine – you can answer the question, be helpful and follow up on the topic or not at your choosing. But for random unsolicited conversation, I think the cultural norm of avoiding idle chat with strangers is helpful and positive.
- derefr 13y ago
  The usual solution is headphones. And if you're not the type of person who enjoys constantly listening to music, well--the headphones don't necessarily have to be plugged into anything (besides your pocket.)

jackmaney 13y ago

"By the end of the train ride, commuters who talked to a stranger reported having a more positive experience than those who had sat in solitude." And what about the people who had conversation thrust upon them by a stranger during the train ride?

avalaunch 13y ago
Near the end of the article: "The benefits of connecting with others also turn out to be contagious. Dr. Epley and Ms. Schroeder found that when one person took the initiative to speak to another in a waiting room, both people reported having a more positive experience. Far from annoying people by violating their personal bubbles, reaching out to strangers may improve their day, too."

fblp 13y ago

I have a theory that there is more harmony in cities where everyone takes public transport. It breaks down the divide between classes as people have the opportunity to interact with someone different to them every day.

kawera 13y ago

Another interesting article: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D05E4DF1130F937A2575AC0A9629C8B63&pagewanted=all http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D05E4DF1130F...

tripzilch 13y ago
'Excuse Me. May I Have Your Seat?'; Revisiting a Social Experiment, And the Fear That Goes With It That was an interesting article indeed. I figured I'd just post the title so people have some idea what they're clicking on.
- orangecat 13y ago
  That is a fascinating article and experiment, although it doesn't surprise me that most people gave up their seats. If I were on a subway and somebody asked for my seat, my highest-probability hypotheses are that they have a physical condition that isn't immediately obvious, or that they're just weird. In the first case I should obviously get up, and in the second case it's not worth trying to determine if they'll have a negative reaction if I refuse.

RighteousFervor 13y ago

Last summer I took the Rejection Therapy[1] challenge. For anyone unaware of what that is, it's a game where you're supposed to get rejected by someone in person for 30 days consecutively. So I'm on a crowded bus, sitting beside a middle age woman with a severe look on her face. I still had to get rejected that day, so I opened up a can of salted cashews that was in my grocery bag and nervously offered her some. She seemed startled at first and declined (I got my rejection), but then thanked me in a thick German accent. She said she immigrated from Germany to Canada 11 years ago and did not have any friends here. She also lived at the same house all this time and not once did her neighbors introduce themselves or say hello. She said it was rare that a stranger would be kind to her. Her intense expression was gone and we chatted for the rest of the ride. I'm glad I got out of my comfort zone and made contact with this random stranger. It made her happy and me happy too. If you want a way to meet new people, Rejection Therapy is ideal. Many of the rejection cards require interacting with strangers. [1] http://rejectiontherapy.com http://rejectiontherapy.com

hhenn 13y ago
Did it change how you feel about interacting with people in general? This is the first time I've heard of "rejection therapy". It interests me but maybe it approaches the problem in a destructive/negative way (that is, keep doing something uncomfortable until it isn't)? I've learned to deal with rejection by reminding myself that people have their own problems and embarrassing histories; they aren't really that different from me. Thinking about it in a humanistic way like that, instead of a negative/destructive way, lets me get over things immediately.
- RighteousFervor 13y ago
  Did it change how you feel about interacting with people in general? I'm more at ease initiating conversations and making small talk. The change over how I used to be is huge.
anishkothari 13y ago
Thanks for sharing this, this seems like a great experiment!

mkhattab 13y ago

It seems to me that it would be difficult talking with strangers on public transport considering most people have smart phones. I've noticed this with younger people. Some cannot sit down for more than, say, 10 minutes without having to look at their phone.

Tiktaalik 13y ago

I almost never chat with people on transit, but while commuting via bicycle I've often had conversations with fellow riders. I wonder what the difference is that encourages conversation. I guess maybe the likely shared interest in bicycles is a good conversation starter?

collyw 13y ago
Interesting. I can't imagine having a conversation whilst cycling, but then I do tend to go fairly fast a lot of the time, so I am concentrating on not hitting anything. Though I did think something similar reading these comments. Living in a city with lots of people it is rare to interact. As soon as you leave the city, and do some outdoor stuff, hiking / mountain biking / kayak, its normal to speak to stranger, and kind of rude if you don't even acknowledge them.

mildavw 13y ago

I frequently strike up conversations with strangers, cashiers, clerks, etc. I offer to take group photos so the cameraperson can be in the shot, like, several times a month. Why? I've never really thought about it, but it's probably for the very reason revealed in the study. It's just a habit that makes me a happier person.

chockablock 13y ago

At grave risk of downvoting: eponysterical much?

kijin 13y ago

> By the end of the train ride, commuters who talked to a stranger reported having a more positive experience than those who had sat in solitude. Explanation 1: Either there are more extraverts than introverts in Chicago, or more extraverts volunteered to participate in the experiment (selection bias). Explanation 2: When it comes to deriving pleasure from short, shallow interaction with a random stranger, there's not much difference between extraverts and introverts. Hell, I'm officially diagnosed with Asperger's and I still enjoy those quick interactions. I just happen to be not very good at it. As the article itself suggests: The great thing about strangers is that we tend to put on our happy face when we meet them, reserving our crankier side for the people we know and love. But there's one thing that the article fails to mention. As an autistic introvert, I'm still capable of deriving pleasure from talking with strangers from time to time, but the need to put on a happy face and consciously maintain it also puts a great strain on me. Too much mask-wearing makes me exhausted. At the end of the day, I no longer even have the energy to conjure up a passable mask, so I return to my usual cranky self. In other words, the momentary burst of happiness has a significant energy cost, and the ROI for introverts may be much lower (or even negative) than it is for extraverts.

jordanlev 13y ago

This seems to ignore the fact that some people are more introverted than extroverted (meaning how people "recharge" -- either via "alone time" or by talking to others, respectively). I am more introvert than extrovert, and when I've worked at jobs where I've commuted back and forth, I loved the alone time I had on the bus or train to and from work -- it really helped me regain some mental energy before and after work. If someone started talking to me it would just drain that away, and I'd much rather save that energy for coworkers or loved ones.

deleted 13y ago

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HenryMc 13y ago

I recently moved from Christchurch, New Zealand to Melbourne Australia. Christchurch has a population of about 350,000 and the only form of public transport is busses (which I have almost never needed to take). Melbourne has a population of about 4,500,000 with trams, busses and trains. On week days my commute involves a half hour train ride and a 5 minute bus trip either way. While most people are glued to their phones, I purposely avoid using mine as much as possible. I just try to be as friendly as possible.

dtf 13y ago

I have to wonder - is this a Starbucks promotional piece? Why is a Starbucks gift card so effective? Why is a Starbucks cafe the perfect place to study these kinds of interactions? Is the Starbucks brand something that we, as readers, need to connect in our minds with the core company concepts of conviviality and happiness? Would sponsoring a scientific study help with this? Or am I just too cynical for this world? Maybe I need a latte to calm down.

axanoeychron 13y ago
I assumed that the study was targeting people who have the routine of commuting and getting a takeaway coffee near the workplace. I could be wrong but it should equally apply to any other coffee shop in a location near offices and public transport (like a metro).

Tenoke 13y ago

I suspect that these studies have the limitation, that only more extroverted people agree to do such things for a $5 gift card, while the introverts just say no (I'm using the terms extrovert and introvert loosely here). And yeah, of course the extroverts would feel happier when talking to people, while those who wouldn't feel so rarely even participate in the study [if my suspicion is right].

slyall 13y ago

This might work well in theory but in practice this is how it will work: Target - female, attractive, youngish Initiator - male, single, below average attractiveness

noisy_boy 13y ago

Be careful what you ask for. If you ever get the chance to travel Indian railways, say, in a non-airconditioned class (which is cheaper and hence has more "average" people), you will inevitably end up chatting about politics (typically with the older generation), railway route trivia (I seriously don't know why that is SO interesting to my dad's generation), movies/cricket and everything else under the sun. And if you are a foreigner, god help you. By the time you disembark, you'll have a group of 5-6 people who just digged your life history including how much money you make, out of you. Except shitty toilets (no pun intended) and general hygiene issues, it is a very interesting way to travel.

ojbyrne 13y ago

“to be looked at as though air." Occasionally I'm a grammar/spelling nazi so I feel honored to find a typo in such a great piece of writing.

dan_bk 13y ago

I'd say for us "nerds", this knowledge is so central. But I also think it really starts to apply to everybody now, as we learn to stay glued to our various electronic devices, wherever we are, whatever we do, whomever we're with.

icco 13y ago

I still suck at talking to strangers, the concept scares me greatly, I've never been entirely sure why. Anxiety maybe? My biggest breakthrough was realizing in college, that I could go to a coffee shop and order a cup of coffee and talk to the cashier, and they were usually very friendly. So, now when anyone is serving or helping me (waitress, barista, security guard, guy who empties the trash cans, whatever) I say hi and ask "how's it going". It's not a deep interaction, and it's not huge, but considering the number of days I used to go without saying anything to anyone, it's a nice improvement.

frade33 13y ago

I just can not keep quite. even worse, i end up exchanging cell numbers. And the experience is like, I am on my college bus, traveling with my fellow mates for a picnic trip. where everyone would secretly wish that the journey just does not come to an end and we keep having fun. I am baffled they needed a 'scientific' research to figure this out.

juliend2 13y ago

Since 6 weeks now I'm saying Hello ("Bonjour", since I'm in Quebec) to at least one stranger every day. During the first days it was really difficult for me to break the ice, and it sometimes felt awkward and eventually (after 1-2 weeks) it became a second nature. I smile all the time when I'm outside and look at people more easily, in order to ease a non-awkward "Bonjour". I still have some people ignoring me or just mutter a barely recognizable response and avoiding me, but it feels good every time I'm done for the day (having saluted 1 person). It's an efficient habit to overcome shyness I think. My next goal: starting a conversation with at least one stranger everyday. And like the article says, it kind of forces me (the smiling, eye contact, etc) to not just look happy but actually feel happier. And just overcoming the fear of talking to strangers is liberating.

aufreak3 13y ago

I used to frequent the bay area around 2000 when I worked for a Singapore based startup who setup their HQ there. As I didnt have a driving license, I used to take public buses from San Mateo to Burlingame, and make train trips to SF. I was given the standard cautionary rules by many, but I have to say that in all that commuting, I never felt threatened even once. Normal folks commuted by bus too. However, there were also quite a few who we were "challenged" in various ways, but still had regular jobs at cafes and such. Since my commute schedule was fixed, I became familiar with them and realized that though there wasn't much conversation going on, the regulars were all familiar with each other. On one occasion, one guy sat next to me and poured his heart out about how his girl friend ditched him years ago and how upset he's been over it for many years. Then, when a stop came, he wordlessly walked out the door and held it open for one of the regulars. This lady had her eyes to the floor the whole time and after she'd got down, said "bye" to him. He returned a "take care", came back to his seat and resumed his story with me. I admit I was somewhat uneasy on the bus commutes initially, but this incident totally changed me. Actually, I'd never seen this quality of spontaneous kindness among "normal" folks during my stay there .. and was humbled greatly myself. I always recall this incident (and all those commutes) fondly. I now think most "normal" city folks who curse each other on every misstep, cant tolerate a couple of seconds delay on the road, who never seem to get a thought to extend themselves out of their pitifully small and limited bodies to someone else; as the folks who are "challenged". So, coming back on topic, at least start a conversation with the regulars on your commutes.

afarrell 13y ago

I suspect this would only work with men. I'm told that for women, every interaction with a random stranger could be the start of a physical assault. Then again, the author of the article is named Elizabeth, so I'm kinda confused.

scotty79 13y ago

My rank of unpleasantness: 1. Being conversed to badly. 2. Being around people who ignore you. 3. Being conversed to pleasantly. 4. Not being around people that might potentially converse to you badly. The trouble with this research is that it compared being around people who ignore you with being around people with positive interaction (that turned out almost always ok). It didn't compare being around people who ignore you and being around people that converse with you pleasantly with not being around people. Also it failed to take into account how slightly pleasant interactions tend to fade away, but unpleasant interaction tends to burn a scar in ones memory that can hurt for years.