10 ms·

"With little emotion, speaking in his usual flat, robotic tone[...]As Page talked, he kept his gaze averted, resisting direct eye contact." Journalists have a

"With little emotion, speaking in his usual flat, robotic tone[...]As Page talked, he kept his gaze averted, resisting direct eye contact." Journalists have a tendency of portraying figures in tech circles as being on the spectrum, while very often that isn't the case.

gtirloni 12y ago
Just to clarify what you mean by "on the spectrum", do you mean the mental illness one? It's a new expression for me and searching only came up with things related to autism, etc.
- dpeck 12y ago
  it relates to autism.
- nutjob2 12y ago
  Yes, he means autism.
- yid 12y ago
  Autism and asperger's are now on the "autism spectrum disorder": http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/autism-spectrum-disorders-asd/index.shtml http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/autism-spectrum-disord...
  - lutusp 12y ago
    For the record, Asperger's is gone. It was cast out because it seemed that everyone was "suffering" from it. http://www.autismspeaks.org/dsm-5/faq#asperger http://www.autismspeaks.org/dsm-5/faq#asperger The above means people can use the word "Asperger's" if they want, but it has been denied any clinical meaning. The reason is that it didn't have a clearly defined clinical meaning to begin with.
    - whoismua 12y ago
      That crap bothers me, autism is hip, especially Aspergers. If this continues, soon 50% of the children will have it. Then 10 years later, they'll come up with a new syndrome. Not to say that autism doesn't exist, just saying that, IMO, far too many 'normal' kids are being labeled as autistic.
      - Aloha 12y ago
        I think the problem in the end is the narrowing definition of normal behavior. First it was ADD - adolescent boys who were fidgety and distractible now had an illness, previously this was considered normal for young boys - then we decided that people who are not as social, perhaps shy - were now ill as well, whereas before again, this was considered within the definition of normal human behavior.
        lutusp 12y ago
        It seems the psychologists are getting antsy to find a replacement for Asperger's (they hate losing diagnoses): http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/12/health/idea-of-new-attention-disorder-spurs-research-and-debate.html http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/12/health/idea-of-new-attenti... Quote: "With more than six million American children having received a diagnosis of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, concern has been rising that the condition is being significantly misdiagnosed and overtreated with prescription medications." "Yet now some powerful figures in mental health are claiming to have identified a new disorder that could vastly expand the ranks of young people treated for attention problems. Called sluggish cognitive tempo, the condition is said to be characterized by lethargy, daydreaming and slow mental processing. By some researchers’ estimates, it is present in perhaps two million children." The article goes on to say that drug companies are partly behind the push for this new diagnosis. Surprise, surprise. :)
        chris_mahan 12y ago
        We have medicine we spent billions in research and development perfecting. Let's find us a diagnosable disease we can sell it against!
- argumentum 12y ago
  He means the autistic spectrum. Usually when referring to someone as "on the spectrum", they really mean to imply that the person in question is on the high-functioning end. It's just meaningless speculation, in my view. People have widely different personalities, and also the tendency to categorize other people as having some pathology.
- lutusp 12y ago
  It normally means on the Autism spectrum, which, if you understand contemporary clinical psychology, can mean anything or nothing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism_spectrum http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism_spectrum For a time about ten years ago, it seemed as though everyone would be placed on the Autism spectrum, but psychologists realized what that would mean (i.e. if everyone is mentally ill, then no one is), so they threw out Asperger's, said it wasn't a real mental illness after all, thus postponing the day or reckoning. Rinse, lather, repeat.
  - mpyne 12y ago
    > so they threw out Asperger's, said it wasn't a real mental illness after all, thus postponing the day or reckoning. Say what you want about Asperger's, but my son has autism and I can assure you it's a real mental health disorder, however many kids might somehow get diagnosed with it.
    - lutusp 12y ago
      > Say what you want about Asperger's, but my son has autism ... Yes, but you're mixing different things. Autism is a category that includes a "Rain Man" level of functioning, but Asperger's was a diagnosis du jour that picked out brighter-than-normal kids, plus a raft of historical figures including Albert Einstein, in a way that made it seem like an attractive diagnosis, such that now, we have people objecting, saying, "No! I'm an Aspie and I don't care what you psychologists say!" Such a thing has never happened before -- there has never been a reverse stigma to a mental illness diagnosis. When psychologists saw people lining up to get this cool new diagnosis, they knew they had gone too far, so they started a process to remove Asperger's from the diagnostic manuals before their credibility was further eroded. Remember when you read about Asperger's that psychologists, who have every reason to hold onto established diagnoses, couldn't wait to get rid of Asperger's and the embarrassment it caused them.
      - mpyne 12y ago
        I agree with all of this, as I get to see it online even now. My concern is with the idea that there will yet be a "day of reckoning" when the rest of the ASDs must also be termed fad diagnoses, which seems to be the implication from the wording you used.
dmunoz 12y ago
It's not just journalists. Both Amazon's Betas and HBO's Silicon Valley could not resist the temptation to make Asperger's jokes in their first episodes. HBO's Silicon Valley's usage even made it into the trailer. To be fair, I suppose an argument can be made that the shows are reflecting the common view of people in technology. It's weird to me, because I don't think being nervous around people you're not familiar with is at all odd. Plenty of people I have worked with are very shy around new people, but absolutely open up as you get to know them. I don't think many of them at all are with any significance "on the spectrum", ignoring the trivial argument you can make for everyone being on it to unnoticeable degrees.
- spbaar 12y ago
  I don't know if it's OK to make those jokes, but it's infinitely preferable to say it out loud explicitly and deal with it with humor than to just make fun of them for being weird and acting different like on big bang theory, where sheldon is clearly modeled after someone on the spectrum but with few redeeming qualities.
  - lutusp 12y ago
    I guess it's more acceptable to make jokes about a mental illness that (a) has been abandoned as meaningless, and that (b) can make you rich and/or famous (Bill Gates and Albert Einstein were both assigned the diagnosis). It can't be compared to the cruel jokes I would hear in school about anyone below average either physically or mentally. It's in a different category.
- jonnathanson 12y ago
  In "Silicon Valley," at least (have not yet seen "Betas"), the people who toss around Aspergers jokes tend to be unsympathetic rubes or dolts, like the farmer in the third episode. To an extent, yes, the audience is meant to laugh at the protagonist's expense when these jokes pop up. But he's getting the last laugh in the end, and the show makes that pretty clear. For whatever it's worth, the show's leads really don't come across as having Aspergers. They come across as being socially awkward, perhaps even to a painful degree. But Mike Judge & co seem pretty sensitive in drawing that line. They might go for a cheap laugh every now and then, but we're not meant to take those "diagnoses" literally.
nicholascarlson 12y ago
Hi! Nicholas here. I'm not a doctor, and I don't diagnose Page in the story with any sort of disorder or condition. I just describe.
- cliveowen 12y ago
  I wasn't implying it was an intentional, just that it looks to me it's often the case that the portrayal tends to support the typical stereotypes. That said, I really enjoyed the article, which I find really well-researched and well-written. Most of all I appreciate the fact that you, unlike writers on most publications, didn't waste time on useless descriptions of physical features or buildings and surroundings, and kept them to a minimum . Also, it's great that you reached out here on HN.
oh_sigh 12y ago
Larry has paralysis of part of his voice box, which explains the tone of his voice.
- dspeyer 12y ago
  That's more recent.
  - oh_sigh 12y ago
    No, he has had partial paralysis since he was a kid, and then more problems once he was an adult.

gtirloni 12y ago

Just to clarify what you mean by "on the spectrum", do you mean the mental illness one? It's a new expression for me and searching only came up with things related to autism, etc.

dpeck 12y ago
it relates to autism.
nutjob2 12y ago
Yes, he means autism.
yid 12y ago
Autism and asperger's are now on the "autism spectrum disorder": http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/autism-spectrum-disorders-asd/index.shtml http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/autism-spectrum-disord...
- lutusp 12y ago
  For the record, Asperger's is gone. It was cast out because it seemed that everyone was "suffering" from it. http://www.autismspeaks.org/dsm-5/faq#asperger http://www.autismspeaks.org/dsm-5/faq#asperger The above means people can use the word "Asperger's" if they want, but it has been denied any clinical meaning. The reason is that it didn't have a clearly defined clinical meaning to begin with.
  - whoismua 12y ago
    That crap bothers me, autism is hip, especially Aspergers. If this continues, soon 50% of the children will have it. Then 10 years later, they'll come up with a new syndrome. Not to say that autism doesn't exist, just saying that, IMO, far too many 'normal' kids are being labeled as autistic.
    - Aloha 12y ago
      I think the problem in the end is the narrowing definition of normal behavior. First it was ADD - adolescent boys who were fidgety and distractible now had an illness, previously this was considered normal for young boys - then we decided that people who are not as social, perhaps shy - were now ill as well, whereas before again, this was considered within the definition of normal human behavior.
      - lutusp 12y ago
        It seems the psychologists are getting antsy to find a replacement for Asperger's (they hate losing diagnoses): http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/12/health/idea-of-new-attention-disorder-spurs-research-and-debate.html http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/12/health/idea-of-new-attenti... Quote: "With more than six million American children having received a diagnosis of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, concern has been rising that the condition is being significantly misdiagnosed and overtreated with prescription medications." "Yet now some powerful figures in mental health are claiming to have identified a new disorder that could vastly expand the ranks of young people treated for attention problems. Called sluggish cognitive tempo, the condition is said to be characterized by lethargy, daydreaming and slow mental processing. By some researchers’ estimates, it is present in perhaps two million children." The article goes on to say that drug companies are partly behind the push for this new diagnosis. Surprise, surprise. :)
        chris_mahan 12y ago
        We have medicine we spent billions in research and development perfecting. Let's find us a diagnosable disease we can sell it against!
argumentum 12y ago
He means the autistic spectrum. Usually when referring to someone as "on the spectrum", they really mean to imply that the person in question is on the high-functioning end. It's just meaningless speculation, in my view. People have widely different personalities, and also the tendency to categorize other people as having some pathology.
lutusp 12y ago
It normally means on the Autism spectrum, which, if you understand contemporary clinical psychology, can mean anything or nothing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism_spectrum http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism_spectrum For a time about ten years ago, it seemed as though everyone would be placed on the Autism spectrum, but psychologists realized what that would mean (i.e. if everyone is mentally ill, then no one is), so they threw out Asperger's, said it wasn't a real mental illness after all, thus postponing the day or reckoning. Rinse, lather, repeat.
- mpyne 12y ago
  > so they threw out Asperger's, said it wasn't a real mental illness after all, thus postponing the day or reckoning. Say what you want about Asperger's, but my son has autism and I can assure you it's a real mental health disorder, however many kids might somehow get diagnosed with it.
  - lutusp 12y ago
    > Say what you want about Asperger's, but my son has autism ... Yes, but you're mixing different things. Autism is a category that includes a "Rain Man" level of functioning, but Asperger's was a diagnosis du jour that picked out brighter-than-normal kids, plus a raft of historical figures including Albert Einstein, in a way that made it seem like an attractive diagnosis, such that now, we have people objecting, saying, "No! I'm an Aspie and I don't care what you psychologists say!" Such a thing has never happened before -- there has never been a reverse stigma to a mental illness diagnosis. When psychologists saw people lining up to get this cool new diagnosis, they knew they had gone too far, so they started a process to remove Asperger's from the diagnostic manuals before their credibility was further eroded. Remember when you read about Asperger's that psychologists, who have every reason to hold onto established diagnoses, couldn't wait to get rid of Asperger's and the embarrassment it caused them.
    - mpyne 12y ago
      I agree with all of this, as I get to see it online even now. My concern is with the idea that there will yet be a "day of reckoning" when the rest of the ASDs must also be termed fad diagnoses, which seems to be the implication from the wording you used.

dmunoz 12y ago

It's not just journalists. Both Amazon's Betas and HBO's Silicon Valley could not resist the temptation to make Asperger's jokes in their first episodes. HBO's Silicon Valley's usage even made it into the trailer. To be fair, I suppose an argument can be made that the shows are reflecting the common view of people in technology. It's weird to me, because I don't think being nervous around people you're not familiar with is at all odd. Plenty of people I have worked with are very shy around new people, but absolutely open up as you get to know them. I don't think many of them at all are with any significance "on the spectrum", ignoring the trivial argument you can make for everyone being on it to unnoticeable degrees.

spbaar 12y ago
I don't know if it's OK to make those jokes, but it's infinitely preferable to say it out loud explicitly and deal with it with humor than to just make fun of them for being weird and acting different like on big bang theory, where sheldon is clearly modeled after someone on the spectrum but with few redeeming qualities.
- lutusp 12y ago
  I guess it's more acceptable to make jokes about a mental illness that (a) has been abandoned as meaningless, and that (b) can make you rich and/or famous (Bill Gates and Albert Einstein were both assigned the diagnosis). It can't be compared to the cruel jokes I would hear in school about anyone below average either physically or mentally. It's in a different category.
jonnathanson 12y ago
In "Silicon Valley," at least (have not yet seen "Betas"), the people who toss around Aspergers jokes tend to be unsympathetic rubes or dolts, like the farmer in the third episode. To an extent, yes, the audience is meant to laugh at the protagonist's expense when these jokes pop up. But he's getting the last laugh in the end, and the show makes that pretty clear. For whatever it's worth, the show's leads really don't come across as having Aspergers. They come across as being socially awkward, perhaps even to a painful degree. But Mike Judge & co seem pretty sensitive in drawing that line. They might go for a cheap laugh every now and then, but we're not meant to take those "diagnoses" literally.

nicholascarlson 12y ago

Hi! Nicholas here. I'm not a doctor, and I don't diagnose Page in the story with any sort of disorder or condition. I just describe.

cliveowen 12y ago
I wasn't implying it was an intentional, just that it looks to me it's often the case that the portrayal tends to support the typical stereotypes. That said, I really enjoyed the article, which I find really well-researched and well-written. Most of all I appreciate the fact that you, unlike writers on most publications, didn't waste time on useless descriptions of physical features or buildings and surroundings, and kept them to a minimum . Also, it's great that you reached out here on HN.

oh_sigh 12y ago

Larry has paralysis of part of his voice box, which explains the tone of his voice.

dspeyer 12y ago
That's more recent.
- oh_sigh 12y ago
  No, he has had partial paralysis since he was a kid, and then more problems once he was an adult.