4 ms·

I don't know if I necessarily approve of this, or entirely trust its accuracy, but this 1995 hatchet job on Ted Nelson is a great read: http://archive.wired.com

by Joeboy 13y ago

I don't know if I necessarily approve of this, or entirely trust its accuracy, but this 1995 hatchet job on Ted Nelson is a great read: http://archive.wired.com/wired/archive/3.06/xanadu.html http://archive.wired.com/wired/archive/3.06/xanadu.html

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
bachback 13y ago
hmm, interesting, fascinating and sad. the article mentions Mark Miller. He has done very interesting work (works at google). http://research.google.com/pubs/author35958.html http://research.google.com/pubs/author35958.html
e12e 13y ago
That is a very sad article indeed. I believe Ted Nelson's work is hampered a lot by the fact that none(?) of his texts are available as ebooks/reprints -- which mean they're far to difficult to get ones hands on in order to read the original. The insights Nelson brings to the idea of hypertext (besides coming up with the term in the first place) are somewhat more significant than for instance Fielding's contributions in his REST paper (partly because Nelson was so far ahead of everyone else).
- DennisP 13y ago
  If you don't mind spending a couple hundred bucks you can pick them up used on Amazon. If you just get one, get Literary Machines. It just covers the basic concepts though, not all the details of "enfilade theory" and so on. That stuff gets really complicated and I haven't found a clear explanation anywhere. Nelson kept it secret for a long time. This article covers the basic concepts: http://www.xanadu.com.au/ted/XUsurvey/xuDation.html http://www.xanadu.com.au/ted/XUsurvey/xuDation.html And this briefly introduces their more complex ideas: http://xanadu.com/tech/ http://xanadu.com/tech/ I just found this page, which has some Internet Archive links that go into as much detail as I've seen: http://fileformats.archiveteam.org/wiki/Enfilade http://fileformats.archiveteam.org/wiki/Enfilade
  - e12e 13y ago
    I certainly do mind spending several hundred dollars on some second-hand paperbacks -- when the things should just've been made available for reprint (and as ebooks). Not to mention that it pretty much rules them out as curriculum for any kind of course on hypermedia. That said, I do think they're great books.
    - kristopolous 13y ago
      computer lib is now in reprint. http://hyperland.com/LibPage http://hyperland.com/LibPage
      - e12e 13y ago
        Well that's nice. Not sure I'm entirely convinced they shouldn't be able to make it available cheaper than 100$/book (and as a pdf...) -- even just assuming they're able to print it at reasonable quality there should be something available for making a high quality scan... Still, great that it is available!
        kristopolous 13y ago
        it's a different form factor: http://www.digibarn.com/history/grand-opening/images/amara-computerlib.jpg http://www.digibarn.com/history/grand-opening/images/amara-c... ... At small volume printing, you'll have to pay a good amount to get such a custom work done. And Ted's is an idealist ... he would never be ok with a PDF version of the work. Those letters are fighting words. Also in that shot you'll get a rare rare glimpse of Steve Inness without a hat!

by Joeboy 13y ago

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

bachback 13y ago

hmm, interesting, fascinating and sad. the article mentions Mark Miller. He has done very interesting work (works at google). http://research.google.com/pubs/author35958.html http://research.google.com/pubs/author35958.html

e12e 13y ago

That is a very sad article indeed. I believe Ted Nelson's work is hampered a lot by the fact that none(?) of his texts are available as ebooks/reprints -- which mean they're far to difficult to get ones hands on in order to read the original. The insights Nelson brings to the idea of hypertext (besides coming up with the term in the first place) are somewhat more significant than for instance Fielding's contributions in his REST paper (partly because Nelson was so far ahead of everyone else).

DennisP 13y ago
If you don't mind spending a couple hundred bucks you can pick them up used on Amazon. If you just get one, get Literary Machines. It just covers the basic concepts though, not all the details of "enfilade theory" and so on. That stuff gets really complicated and I haven't found a clear explanation anywhere. Nelson kept it secret for a long time. This article covers the basic concepts: http://www.xanadu.com.au/ted/XUsurvey/xuDation.html http://www.xanadu.com.au/ted/XUsurvey/xuDation.html And this briefly introduces their more complex ideas: http://xanadu.com/tech/ http://xanadu.com/tech/ I just found this page, which has some Internet Archive links that go into as much detail as I've seen: http://fileformats.archiveteam.org/wiki/Enfilade http://fileformats.archiveteam.org/wiki/Enfilade
- e12e 13y ago
  I certainly do mind spending several hundred dollars on some second-hand paperbacks -- when the things should just've been made available for reprint (and as ebooks). Not to mention that it pretty much rules them out as curriculum for any kind of course on hypermedia. That said, I do think they're great books.
  - kristopolous 13y ago
    computer lib is now in reprint. http://hyperland.com/LibPage http://hyperland.com/LibPage
    - e12e 13y ago
      Well that's nice. Not sure I'm entirely convinced they shouldn't be able to make it available cheaper than 100$/book (and as a pdf...) -- even just assuming they're able to print it at reasonable quality there should be something available for making a high quality scan... Still, great that it is available!
      - kristopolous 13y ago
        it's a different form factor: http://www.digibarn.com/history/grand-opening/images/amara-computerlib.jpg http://www.digibarn.com/history/grand-opening/images/amara-c... ... At small volume printing, you'll have to pay a good amount to get such a custom work done. And Ted's is an idealist ... he would never be ok with a PDF version of the work. Those letters are fighting words. Also in that shot you'll get a rare rare glimpse of Steve Inness without a hat!