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Can we also add "Ninja" and "Genius" to the list of abused recruitment buzzwords? And don't even get me started on "passion". (David Mitchell's take: http://yo

by jmagoon 12y ago

Can we also add "Ninja" and "Genius" to the list of abused recruitment buzzwords? And don't even get me started on "passion". (David Mitchell's take: http://youtu.be/Bz2-49q6DOI http://youtu.be/Bz2-49q6DOI)

Karunamon 12y ago
I've got to disagree with you on the last one. Personally, I'd rather work with a developer (and hire, should I ever end up in such a position) someone who writes code because it's what they love to do first and because it happens to pay the bills second. Profit motive is powerful, but I'd argue that doing what you love beats all else. I read a study once that found greater financial incentives are correlated with lower quality of work (might have been productivity), but I can't seem to mumble the right google incantation to bring it up again. I'll post it here if I come across it.
- dllthomas 12y ago
  I agree that passion is valuable, but expect me to be passionate about coding and solving problems, please don't expect me to be passionate about your company before I even fully understand who you are and what you're doing.
  - PeterisP 12y ago
    For quite many companies there are people who are passionate about that company and their goals even if they don't [yet] work there. E.g., some high-profile programmer posts about Oculus Rift impled that, and there are many niche-cases for specific business areas. If you don't understand what the company is and what they're doing, then it's reasonable that you'll be at a disadvantage compared to people who did understand all that before applying for the job and likely applied because of that.
    - dllthomas 12y ago
      I've always done research, but there's usually a lot of hugely relevant information that's not going to be very publicly available. Oculus is a bad example - most companies are not high profile, in a space with few other significant players that has been romanticized by sci-fi media for decades. Of course, there are always going to be idiots blindly excited by what they imagine, but those aren't the good hires - the best hires learn what they can, then pick the best option, then pursue it passionately.
  - briantakita 12y ago
    Passion for continuous improvement is important as well. Passion is a double edged sword. I've known people who were passionate and misguided. Their passion to propagate their misguided viewpoint was a drain on the team and caused much drama.
    - dllthomas 12y ago
      Agreed.
    - ams6110 12y ago
      There's also the case of the passionate but incompetent. I'm not sure if this is what you're talking about, but I can think of one person I worked with who had the best of intentions and was highly motivated but was just utterly, hopelessly incompetent.
- sutterbomb 12y ago
  The research you're looking for is probably from Daniel Pink. He found that for creative tasks, higher financial incentives led to lower quality output. For routine, standardized tasks, financial incentives work well.
- johnsdea 12y ago
  Is this what you were looking for? [1] When looking at a financial reward as a motive for great work, a study found this works great for work that is very monotonous/tedious, and horrible for work that requires a lot of thinking. In fact, when offered larger and larger rewards based on better work for the more mentally strenuous work, the quality of work seemed to go down. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc
webwright 12y ago
I'll disagree with the last one. Whanever I hire for, I always look for "passion for the craft" - whether it's design, code, marketing, or whatever. A great question is "What's the last book or blog post you've read in your field that got you excited?" If people love what they do enough to explore it in their off-time, they'll (usually) be a cut above the rest... And they won't get bored/tired of their work as soon or as easily (assuming you can provide interesting work).
- johnward 12y ago
  Does that make it a negative if you're time away from work involves family, outdoor activities, DIY projects, etc? I think that what you are saying is what most people look for. Someone who writes code for a living and then goes home to write code to relax. That generally fits the young, unmarried/no kids, recent college grad stereotype. I'm curious because I have been burnt out at work and decided to focus on those things I mentioned. I'm much healthier and productive overall. Yet if I went to an interview I wouldn't have hours of OSS commits on projects I worked on after work to meet most job requirements.
  - dllthomas 12y ago
    I'm 30 (dunno if that's "young"), married, and write code to relax... kids might change that though (or at least change how much time I have to relax!). Not that I think everyone needs to work the same, mind you...
    - jwdunne 12y ago
      Kids don't change that. My little girl is 5 weeks old and I find much solace behind my editor during quiet times :) It's reinvigorated with the hope of whatever I learn I can pass down in the future.
      - dllthomas 12y ago
        Thanks for the hope! Less time to code is probably the piece of it I'm looking forward to the least.
pedalpete 12y ago
Reading this post made me thing about the term 'Ninja', and when the OP was discussing workhorses, I thought "why do we use the term Ninja? it isn't like Ninjas are out winning wars anymore." What was a Ninja? An expert martial artists, and incredibly skilled in his craft, which is no longer needed?
- lerchmo 12y ago
  A ninja in modern war, would be like a punch-card coder working on a windows app..

by jmagoon 12y ago

Karunamon 12y ago

I've got to disagree with you on the last one. Personally, I'd rather work with a developer (and hire, should I ever end up in such a position) someone who writes code because it's what they love to do first and because it happens to pay the bills second. Profit motive is powerful, but I'd argue that doing what you love beats all else. I read a study once that found greater financial incentives are correlated with lower quality of work (might have been productivity), but I can't seem to mumble the right google incantation to bring it up again. I'll post it here if I come across it.

dllthomas 12y ago
I agree that passion is valuable, but expect me to be passionate about coding and solving problems, please don't expect me to be passionate about your company before I even fully understand who you are and what you're doing.
- PeterisP 12y ago
  For quite many companies there are people who are passionate about that company and their goals even if they don't [yet] work there. E.g., some high-profile programmer posts about Oculus Rift impled that, and there are many niche-cases for specific business areas. If you don't understand what the company is and what they're doing, then it's reasonable that you'll be at a disadvantage compared to people who did understand all that before applying for the job and likely applied because of that.
  - dllthomas 12y ago
    I've always done research, but there's usually a lot of hugely relevant information that's not going to be very publicly available. Oculus is a bad example - most companies are not high profile, in a space with few other significant players that has been romanticized by sci-fi media for decades. Of course, there are always going to be idiots blindly excited by what they imagine, but those aren't the good hires - the best hires learn what they can, then pick the best option, then pursue it passionately.
- briantakita 12y ago
  Passion for continuous improvement is important as well. Passion is a double edged sword. I've known people who were passionate and misguided. Their passion to propagate their misguided viewpoint was a drain on the team and caused much drama.
  - dllthomas 12y ago
    Agreed.
  - ams6110 12y ago
    There's also the case of the passionate but incompetent. I'm not sure if this is what you're talking about, but I can think of one person I worked with who had the best of intentions and was highly motivated but was just utterly, hopelessly incompetent.
sutterbomb 12y ago
The research you're looking for is probably from Daniel Pink. He found that for creative tasks, higher financial incentives led to lower quality output. For routine, standardized tasks, financial incentives work well.
johnsdea 12y ago
Is this what you were looking for? [1] When looking at a financial reward as a motive for great work, a study found this works great for work that is very monotonous/tedious, and horrible for work that requires a lot of thinking. In fact, when offered larger and larger rewards based on better work for the more mentally strenuous work, the quality of work seemed to go down. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc

webwright 12y ago

I'll disagree with the last one. Whanever I hire for, I always look for "passion for the craft" - whether it's design, code, marketing, or whatever. A great question is "What's the last book or blog post you've read in your field that got you excited?" If people love what they do enough to explore it in their off-time, they'll (usually) be a cut above the rest... And they won't get bored/tired of their work as soon or as easily (assuming you can provide interesting work).

johnward 12y ago
Does that make it a negative if you're time away from work involves family, outdoor activities, DIY projects, etc? I think that what you are saying is what most people look for. Someone who writes code for a living and then goes home to write code to relax. That generally fits the young, unmarried/no kids, recent college grad stereotype. I'm curious because I have been burnt out at work and decided to focus on those things I mentioned. I'm much healthier and productive overall. Yet if I went to an interview I wouldn't have hours of OSS commits on projects I worked on after work to meet most job requirements.
- dllthomas 12y ago
  I'm 30 (dunno if that's "young"), married, and write code to relax... kids might change that though (or at least change how much time I have to relax!). Not that I think everyone needs to work the same, mind you...
  - jwdunne 12y ago
    Kids don't change that. My little girl is 5 weeks old and I find much solace behind my editor during quiet times :) It's reinvigorated with the hope of whatever I learn I can pass down in the future.
    - dllthomas 12y ago
      Thanks for the hope! Less time to code is probably the piece of it I'm looking forward to the least.

pedalpete 12y ago

Reading this post made me thing about the term 'Ninja', and when the OP was discussing workhorses, I thought "why do we use the term Ninja? it isn't like Ninjas are out winning wars anymore." What was a Ninja? An expert martial artists, and incredibly skilled in his craft, which is no longer needed?

lerchmo 12y ago
A ninja in modern war, would be like a punch-card coder working on a windows app..