5 ms·

Why the "thankfully"? I'm in a country where the ID card is mandatory and don't see any problem with it. Can you enlighten me?

nutjob2 12y ago
You need to be wearing a tinfoil hat to understand.
- davidvaughan 12y ago
  I wear a tinfoil hat because governments have a history of abusing their powers. Although we live in steady and somewhat well-governed democracies, there's no guarantee that this will always be the case.
c_plus_minus 12y ago
I don't see the need to have mandatory ID. The thought of being fined for not "showing my papers" while walking down the street is disturbing. Can't speak for the UK, but I think a lot of the resistance to the idea in Ireland is due to a long history of distrust of the authorities.
- zokier 12y ago
  > The thought of being fined for not "showing my papers" while walking down the street is disturbing. Having a ID card does not imply that authorities have right to inspect it at will, or that you are required to carry it with you at all times.
  - c_plus_minus 12y ago
    That why I said "mandatory"...
- blueskin_ 12y ago
  Definitely the same in the UK. It's likely the death of Blair/Brown's <s>citizen tracking</s>ID card scheme killed the idea for other countries considering one.
vertex-four 12y ago
A lot of things end up being tied to your ID number, and it becomes very difficult to limit the collaboration of companies to create a dataset about you, never mind making it easier for the Government to track people en masse.
- sergiosgc 12y ago
  I'll have to break it to you then: it's exceedingly easy to get the same use of data without an ID. The lack of national ID does not protect your privacy.
  - xerophtye 12y ago
    Yep, FB and twitter doesn't need your national ID card number to know more about you than your spouse does
  - vertex-four 12y ago
    I said easier, not foolproof. Just a postcode and some other piece of data is often enough to tie a record to an identity. There's a difference between possible and building a system specifically to help it happen.
    - sergiosgc 12y ago
      The feeling of protection hinges on how easy it is. A bit over ten years ago I was working in database "cleaning": merging databases from different organizations[1] into one coherent dataset. The data volumes were large, but other than that it is a simple task with low error rates and one which absolutely does not need global unique IDs. This was ten years ago. The task only got easier since then. On the flip side, the lack of national ID has inconveniences. How do you authenticate yourself when selling your house? [1] Ethical work. These were needed either after mergers or because of the MS Access syndrome, where every department designed their own customer database.
- pisarzp 12y ago
  Lack of ID card doesn't stop UK to share all your data with private companies, like in case of care.data and now also HMRC data. I never felt as tracked as in UK, where all companies know where I live and lived for last several yers. On the other hand in Poland we do have mandatory ID card, and companies still don't have that much access to your data.
blueskin_ 12y ago
Same issue as with SSN in the USA. Lots of things requesting it what should not ever have access to it, opening people up to everything from privacy intrusion to identity fraud.
QuadDamaged 12y ago
Case in point: HMRC (UK Taxman) is about to sell 'anonymized' taxpayer data. With enough 'anonymized' data-dumps and CPU power, at some point, it will become trivial to correlate an ID Card ID with datapoints.
- bozho 12y ago
  No. Read about anonymous credentials ;)
- pisarzp 12y ago
  I actually think it's the other way round. I actually think the other way. In countries where you have ID card, you just show it to confirm your identity and you're done. In UK you need to bring your bank statement and utility bills, with your address. Combined with your date of birth, it makes it much easier to match with companies database.

nutjob2 12y ago

You need to be wearing a tinfoil hat to understand.

davidvaughan 12y ago
I wear a tinfoil hat because governments have a history of abusing their powers. Although we live in steady and somewhat well-governed democracies, there's no guarantee that this will always be the case.

c_plus_minus 12y ago

I don't see the need to have mandatory ID. The thought of being fined for not "showing my papers" while walking down the street is disturbing. Can't speak for the UK, but I think a lot of the resistance to the idea in Ireland is due to a long history of distrust of the authorities.

zokier 12y ago
> The thought of being fined for not "showing my papers" while walking down the street is disturbing. Having a ID card does not imply that authorities have right to inspect it at will, or that you are required to carry it with you at all times.
- c_plus_minus 12y ago
  That why I said "mandatory"...
blueskin_ 12y ago
Definitely the same in the UK. It's likely the death of Blair/Brown's <s>citizen tracking</s>ID card scheme killed the idea for other countries considering one.

vertex-four 12y ago

A lot of things end up being tied to your ID number, and it becomes very difficult to limit the collaboration of companies to create a dataset about you, never mind making it easier for the Government to track people en masse.

sergiosgc 12y ago
I'll have to break it to you then: it's exceedingly easy to get the same use of data without an ID. The lack of national ID does not protect your privacy.
- xerophtye 12y ago
  Yep, FB and twitter doesn't need your national ID card number to know more about you than your spouse does
- vertex-four 12y ago
  I said easier, not foolproof. Just a postcode and some other piece of data is often enough to tie a record to an identity. There's a difference between possible and building a system specifically to help it happen.
  - sergiosgc 12y ago
    The feeling of protection hinges on how easy it is. A bit over ten years ago I was working in database "cleaning": merging databases from different organizations[1] into one coherent dataset. The data volumes were large, but other than that it is a simple task with low error rates and one which absolutely does not need global unique IDs. This was ten years ago. The task only got easier since then. On the flip side, the lack of national ID has inconveniences. How do you authenticate yourself when selling your house? [1] Ethical work. These were needed either after mergers or because of the MS Access syndrome, where every department designed their own customer database.
pisarzp 12y ago
Lack of ID card doesn't stop UK to share all your data with private companies, like in case of care.data and now also HMRC data. I never felt as tracked as in UK, where all companies know where I live and lived for last several yers. On the other hand in Poland we do have mandatory ID card, and companies still don't have that much access to your data.

blueskin_ 12y ago

Same issue as with SSN in the USA. Lots of things requesting it what should not ever have access to it, opening people up to everything from privacy intrusion to identity fraud.

QuadDamaged 12y ago

Case in point: HMRC (UK Taxman) is about to sell 'anonymized' taxpayer data. With enough 'anonymized' data-dumps and CPU power, at some point, it will become trivial to correlate an ID Card ID with datapoints.

bozho 12y ago
No. Read about anonymous credentials ;)
pisarzp 12y ago
I actually think it's the other way round. I actually think the other way. In countries where you have ID card, you just show it to confirm your identity and you're done. In UK you need to bring your bank statement and utility bills, with your address. Combined with your date of birth, it makes it much easier to match with companies database.