7 ms·

There's also the related phenomenon that in the US, the rich are in the spotlight of society and the poor are decidedly disliked.

grecy 13y ago
...and those who realize they have enough ignore the rich and are out living how they want to be (camping, hiking, taking photos, etc.)
- thathonkey 13y ago
  I think what you're describing is generally just known as "the middle class"
- HarryHirsch 13y ago
  and those who realize they have enough ignore the rich If you only could. The problem is that in the US a great portion of taxes are locally raised and spent, and the way of dealing with poverty is to price the poor out of areas where they aren't wanted. To get access to halfway decent schools you need to move to the suburbs, and what's available there in housing is hugely outsized. You cannot save on heating, cooling, cleaning and enclosed space, nevermind the commute, because that economic option does not exist. So you bite the bullet with everyone else and you cannot choose not to play the game.
  - awda 13y ago
    I'm not sure you can't get halfway decent public schools in the cities, but they tend to be local to wealthier neighborhoods. And suburbs in the area I'm from tend to at least have apartments and townhomes, which are a nice middle ground (at least as far as saving on heating, cooling, cleaning, space, cost). The commute still sucks, of course.
    - zhemao 13y ago
      In NYC at least, you don't have to live in a pricey neighborhood in order to get your kid into a good public high school. Your kid will, however, have to do well on a standardized test.
  - zo1 13y ago
    "Locally raised and spent" If only. That would be a great form of funding community governance. Where local communities help themselves up, instead of practically begging for scraps from a wealthy government that really doesn't care until it gets them votes. Change has to come from within. And it won't come so long as people think like you. i.e. "Change can come when funding comes from better places" Which completely ignores the real problems and real difficulties facing real people in those places you seem to not want to live in. Ask yourself why you don't want to live there.
    - lilsunnybee 13y ago
      Local funding means wealthy neighborhoods are lavished with infrastructure, and can provide top of the line schooling and opportunities for their precious offspring. Meanwhile any child unlucky enough to grow up poor is greated with decay and dysfunction at every turn, is never given the education nor the opportunities to succeed, or have interests much above basic survival. Upward mobility is basically zero. Welcome to feudal America.
    - seanmcdirmid 13y ago
      Property taxes are very regressive in the sense that rich people typically live with other rich people. Ghettos and shanty towns are a direct result of thinking such as yours.
      - zo1 13y ago
        Ah yes, so it's my fault that groups of individuals decided to not take care of their neighborhood, right. Sorry, no, but people need to take responsibility for their own actions. And I will in no way share blame for a second generation further ruining their kids' futures because they're too short-sighted and expect the rest of us to do it for them. We as a society can only share blame for one generation. The next one is on the parents.
        seanmcdirmid 13y ago
        Wow, so its poor people fault they and their children and their children's children remain poor. That is very libercrazian of you.
  - grecy 13y ago
    > If you only could I, and many people I know are doing it. Of course, like anything worth doing, it takes hard work and dedication, but it certainly can be done.
Varcht 13y ago
I would disagree that "poor are decidedly disliked" here as a rule. There are plenty of "poor" that are accepted, liked and even esteemed. Think of the starving artists, musicians, olympic athletes, working class poor, the startup set, etc. There is dislike for the poor that resort to crime, thuggery, drugs etc. At least this is how I see it from my middle class perspective.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- shadowfox 13y ago
  > Think of the starving artists, musicians, olympic athletes, working class poor, the startup set, etc Maybe you are right and I am just cynical. But I have felt that some of these groups (with the exception of working class poor) are tolerated because of their success potential than for their status as individuals. And even with that a large number of people appear to disdainful of unsuccessful people in these fields. And about the only people who seem to like the working class poor are politicians who see them as a voting bloc of sorts.
  - thesimpsons1022 13y ago
    the other person is wrong, the poor are definitely hated in america. they are villianized as lazy welfare queens. remember the 47 percent thing with Romney? turn on fox news for 10 minutes, John Stossel even villianizes the homeless. they also try to get rid of school lunches/food assistance for the poor.
    - bronson 13y ago
      Fox News does not represent America.
      - hyperbovine 13y ago
        Not all of it, but not none of it either.

grecy 13y ago

...and those who realize they have enough ignore the rich and are out living how they want to be (camping, hiking, taking photos, etc.)

thathonkey 13y ago
I think what you're describing is generally just known as "the middle class"
HarryHirsch 13y ago
and those who realize they have enough ignore the rich If you only could. The problem is that in the US a great portion of taxes are locally raised and spent, and the way of dealing with poverty is to price the poor out of areas where they aren't wanted. To get access to halfway decent schools you need to move to the suburbs, and what's available there in housing is hugely outsized. You cannot save on heating, cooling, cleaning and enclosed space, nevermind the commute, because that economic option does not exist. So you bite the bullet with everyone else and you cannot choose not to play the game.
- awda 13y ago
  I'm not sure you can't get halfway decent public schools in the cities, but they tend to be local to wealthier neighborhoods. And suburbs in the area I'm from tend to at least have apartments and townhomes, which are a nice middle ground (at least as far as saving on heating, cooling, cleaning, space, cost). The commute still sucks, of course.
  - zhemao 13y ago
    In NYC at least, you don't have to live in a pricey neighborhood in order to get your kid into a good public high school. Your kid will, however, have to do well on a standardized test.
- zo1 13y ago
  "Locally raised and spent" If only. That would be a great form of funding community governance. Where local communities help themselves up, instead of practically begging for scraps from a wealthy government that really doesn't care until it gets them votes. Change has to come from within. And it won't come so long as people think like you. i.e. "Change can come when funding comes from better places" Which completely ignores the real problems and real difficulties facing real people in those places you seem to not want to live in. Ask yourself why you don't want to live there.
  - lilsunnybee 13y ago
    Local funding means wealthy neighborhoods are lavished with infrastructure, and can provide top of the line schooling and opportunities for their precious offspring. Meanwhile any child unlucky enough to grow up poor is greated with decay and dysfunction at every turn, is never given the education nor the opportunities to succeed, or have interests much above basic survival. Upward mobility is basically zero. Welcome to feudal America.
  - seanmcdirmid 13y ago
    Property taxes are very regressive in the sense that rich people typically live with other rich people. Ghettos and shanty towns are a direct result of thinking such as yours.
    - zo1 13y ago
      Ah yes, so it's my fault that groups of individuals decided to not take care of their neighborhood, right. Sorry, no, but people need to take responsibility for their own actions. And I will in no way share blame for a second generation further ruining their kids' futures because they're too short-sighted and expect the rest of us to do it for them. We as a society can only share blame for one generation. The next one is on the parents.
      - seanmcdirmid 13y ago
        Wow, so its poor people fault they and their children and their children's children remain poor. That is very libercrazian of you.
- grecy 13y ago
  > If you only could I, and many people I know are doing it. Of course, like anything worth doing, it takes hard work and dedication, but it certainly can be done.

Varcht 13y ago

I would disagree that "poor are decidedly disliked" here as a rule. There are plenty of "poor" that are accepted, liked and even esteemed. Think of the starving artists, musicians, olympic athletes, working class poor, the startup set, etc. There is dislike for the poor that resort to crime, thuggery, drugs etc. At least this is how I see it from my middle class perspective.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
shadowfox 13y ago
> Think of the starving artists, musicians, olympic athletes, working class poor, the startup set, etc Maybe you are right and I am just cynical. But I have felt that some of these groups (with the exception of working class poor) are tolerated because of their success potential than for their status as individuals. And even with that a large number of people appear to disdainful of unsuccessful people in these fields. And about the only people who seem to like the working class poor are politicians who see them as a voting bloc of sorts.
- thesimpsons1022 13y ago
  the other person is wrong, the poor are definitely hated in america. they are villianized as lazy welfare queens. remember the 47 percent thing with Romney? turn on fox news for 10 minutes, John Stossel even villianizes the homeless. they also try to get rid of school lunches/food assistance for the poor.
  - bronson 13y ago
    Fox News does not represent America.
    - hyperbovine 13y ago
      Not all of it, but not none of it either.