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I basically did whistle my way out the door because of this. I worked as a contractor for a very large defense company. After a year, they offered me full time

I basically did whistle my way out the door because of this. I worked as a contractor for a very large defense company. After a year, they offered me full time employment. I specifically asked if there was a "we own everything you make" clause in the employment agreement, but I was assured there was not. I went through about five digital form contracts, and when I got to the last one, it had the clause in there. I told the woman that I wanted to amend the contract and she huffed and told me they don't do that. I replied that I was promised that I would not have to agree to such a clause, and she told me that it was mandatory, so I could take it or leave it. I asked if there was anyone in HR I could talk to about this, and was told no. So I stood up and said "please escort me out the door, starting immediately I am resigning. At the gate, I would like the security guard to search my things." (it was a secured facility, and I didn't want anyone to claim I was stealing anything later.) She asked me if I was serious, and I said yes. I was berated for how much time and money was wasted on getting me ready for employment, and I replied I was promised repeatedly that I would not have to sign away my rights, and this was absolutely a deal breaker and I didn't appreciate being told repeatedly this would be honored until the very last minute. So really, my time was being wasted too. This really, really didn't go over well. My heart was beating like crazy the entire time. My former boss was furious, the HR person was furious. The security guard was cool about it though.

nraynaud 13y ago
walking the walk. Literally.
ISL 13y ago
Strong work. Not everyone has the will, nor the financial wherewithal, to do such a thing.
- wyager 13y ago
  >Not everyone has the will... to do such a thing. This may just be crotchety old man talk, but sometimes I wonder if the extremely protective child-rearing (particularly in schools) that seems to be abundant today will make future adults particularly susceptible to this kind of bullying. If you never have to deal with this kind of social stress as a child, how can you possibly deal with it as an adult? Perhaps getting bossed around on the playground is a good way to train the mind to appropriately deal with intimidation from employers, salesmen, etc.
  - conformal 13y ago
    i'm in my 30s and i am in total agreement with you: the modern helicopter parents are so preoccupied with "bullying" that the next generation of kids are going to be soft-minded nitwits on the average. catching a beatdown on the playground now and again made me who i am today and i would never have had it any other way. having the balls or wisdom to walk away from a situation where you're being bullied, whether literally or figuratively, is becoming rarer nowadays.
  - vectorpush 13y ago
    Rest assured, children are still being bullied quite regularly.
  - pekk 13y ago
    Being humiliated and beaten as a child with no control over the situation is not "training" for anything. It's abundantly clear that you did not experience that and have no idea what it is like for a child. Let's hope as a crotchety old man that nobody ever decides to show you what it's like when you're stuck in a nursing home where no one believes or cares to help you because of some stupid reason like that it should toughen you up.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
    - gregw134 13y ago
      Geez man.
    - collyw 13y ago
      I think it is pretty much the norm that most kids get bullied to some extent. You can usually tell the ones that have had a sheltered life.
    - coldtea 13y ago
      >Being humiliated and beaten as a child with no control over the situation is not "training" for anything. It's abundantly clear that you did not experience that and have no idea what it is like for a child. I disagree. Most kids have experienced that, and in older times quite more than today with over-protection. Unless we're talking of extreme situations (which we were not), it helps to build defenses against these kind of things and be more vigilant and aware of other's tactics. Some kind of "toughening" kids up with adverse situation (as opposed to over-protecting them) has been part of human culture for milenia, from Sparta to Native American tribes.
- A_COMPUTER 13y ago
  I was very fortunate. I was single, and at the time I lived _very_ cheaply, and I had set aside enough money that I could survive almost a year without work. Before that, every job I had ever worked had that stupid clause, and I had swore I would never sign it again. I was only at this place because the money was really, really good. The work environment was the worst I've ever experienced. When they sprung that on me, it was the last straw. They do this to you because they hold all the cards. I was just lucky that I didn't need them.
  - Fuxy 13y ago
    That's why it think these kinds of contracts should have very strong limitations since as it stands now an employer could potentially make you sign a contract that would effectively make you unable to earn a living and survive for years or own any intellectual property you may have developed in your own time for the purpose of say starting your own business. They could cripple you if they wanted to. To be honest there's not much difference between this an slavery and when signing is the difference between putting food on the table or starving everybody is a slave. Of course you could always not sign but not everyone has the luxury to do that i would argue most people don't.
sirdogealot 13y ago
I find nothing as pleasurable in this world as seeing people in the wrong get upset that they are in the wrong. Thanks for the entertaining story! And sorry to hear of your mental anguish.
cynicalkane 13y ago
If you had a written promise, could you sue?
- ChuckMcM 13y ago
  No, you can only say no thanks and leave. I strongly suggest to anyone who gets hired at Google to read the employment contract completely (you can ask them to send it to you before you start). If you have a friend who understands contract law, have them explain it to you. Then decide. Unlike in credit situations there is no equivalent of the Fair Credit Act covering employment contracts. Many employers exploit that by writing some very crafty wording which reads one way but on close inspection says the opposite.
  - sizzle 13y ago
    Thanks for the advice, did not know this.
  - walshemj 13y ago
    Not just contrcat law employment law experiance is key here.
- Terr_ 13y ago
  IANAL, you sort of can, but mainly in compensation for expenses you incurred based on expecting them to come through. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estoppel#American_law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estoppel#American_law
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - gggf3 13y ago
    So if someone offers you a job and you quit your previous job, only to find out your new job is no longer on the table, then you can sue for lost wages?
    - 13y ago
sizzle 13y ago
you have all my respect! wish more people stood up for what they believed in.
pskocik 13y ago
The win-win-or-no-deal is strong with this one.
omnipath 13y ago
This is why I always say get it in writing. If it's not written, it doesn't really exist.

nraynaud 13y ago

walking the walk. Literally.

ISL 13y ago

Strong work. Not everyone has the will, nor the financial wherewithal, to do such a thing.

wyager 13y ago
>Not everyone has the will... to do such a thing. This may just be crotchety old man talk, but sometimes I wonder if the extremely protective child-rearing (particularly in schools) that seems to be abundant today will make future adults particularly susceptible to this kind of bullying. If you never have to deal with this kind of social stress as a child, how can you possibly deal with it as an adult? Perhaps getting bossed around on the playground is a good way to train the mind to appropriately deal with intimidation from employers, salesmen, etc.
- conformal 13y ago
  i'm in my 30s and i am in total agreement with you: the modern helicopter parents are so preoccupied with "bullying" that the next generation of kids are going to be soft-minded nitwits on the average. catching a beatdown on the playground now and again made me who i am today and i would never have had it any other way. having the balls or wisdom to walk away from a situation where you're being bullied, whether literally or figuratively, is becoming rarer nowadays.
- vectorpush 13y ago
  Rest assured, children are still being bullied quite regularly.
- pekk 13y ago
  Being humiliated and beaten as a child with no control over the situation is not "training" for anything. It's abundantly clear that you did not experience that and have no idea what it is like for a child. Let's hope as a crotchety old man that nobody ever decides to show you what it's like when you're stuck in a nursing home where no one believes or cares to help you because of some stupid reason like that it should toughen you up.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - gregw134 13y ago
    Geez man.
  - collyw 13y ago
    I think it is pretty much the norm that most kids get bullied to some extent. You can usually tell the ones that have had a sheltered life.
  - coldtea 13y ago
    >Being humiliated and beaten as a child with no control over the situation is not "training" for anything. It's abundantly clear that you did not experience that and have no idea what it is like for a child. I disagree. Most kids have experienced that, and in older times quite more than today with over-protection. Unless we're talking of extreme situations (which we were not), it helps to build defenses against these kind of things and be more vigilant and aware of other's tactics. Some kind of "toughening" kids up with adverse situation (as opposed to over-protecting them) has been part of human culture for milenia, from Sparta to Native American tribes.
A_COMPUTER 13y ago
I was very fortunate. I was single, and at the time I lived _very_ cheaply, and I had set aside enough money that I could survive almost a year without work. Before that, every job I had ever worked had that stupid clause, and I had swore I would never sign it again. I was only at this place because the money was really, really good. The work environment was the worst I've ever experienced. When they sprung that on me, it was the last straw. They do this to you because they hold all the cards. I was just lucky that I didn't need them.
- Fuxy 13y ago
  That's why it think these kinds of contracts should have very strong limitations since as it stands now an employer could potentially make you sign a contract that would effectively make you unable to earn a living and survive for years or own any intellectual property you may have developed in your own time for the purpose of say starting your own business. They could cripple you if they wanted to. To be honest there's not much difference between this an slavery and when signing is the difference between putting food on the table or starving everybody is a slave. Of course you could always not sign but not everyone has the luxury to do that i would argue most people don't.

sirdogealot 13y ago

I find nothing as pleasurable in this world as seeing people in the wrong get upset that they are in the wrong. Thanks for the entertaining story! And sorry to hear of your mental anguish.

cynicalkane 13y ago

If you had a written promise, could you sue?

ChuckMcM 13y ago
No, you can only say no thanks and leave. I strongly suggest to anyone who gets hired at Google to read the employment contract completely (you can ask them to send it to you before you start). If you have a friend who understands contract law, have them explain it to you. Then decide. Unlike in credit situations there is no equivalent of the Fair Credit Act covering employment contracts. Many employers exploit that by writing some very crafty wording which reads one way but on close inspection says the opposite.
- sizzle 13y ago
  Thanks for the advice, did not know this.
- walshemj 13y ago
  Not just contrcat law employment law experiance is key here.
Terr_ 13y ago
IANAL, you sort of can, but mainly in compensation for expenses you incurred based on expecting them to come through. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estoppel#American_law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estoppel#American_law
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- gggf3 13y ago
  So if someone offers you a job and you quit your previous job, only to find out your new job is no longer on the table, then you can sue for lost wages?
  - 13y ago

sizzle 13y ago

you have all my respect! wish more people stood up for what they believed in.

pskocik 13y ago

The win-win-or-no-deal is strong with this one.

omnipath 13y ago

This is why I always say get it in writing. If it's not written, it doesn't really exist.