4 ms·

I hate the idea of implied mandatory tipping. Pay your staff sufficient wages please. Whatever laws allow the below minimum wage loophole should be eliminated

by dm2 13y ago

I hate the idea of implied mandatory tipping. Pay your staff sufficient wages please. Whatever laws allow the below minimum wage loophole should be eliminated or overwritten, or whatever you do to laws to make them invalid.

larrys 13y ago
"Pay your staff sufficient wages please." In theory means that expenses go up and restaurant then need to charge more on the menu which will in theory result in lower sales and profit (see my other comment).
- dm2 13y ago
  The amount the customers pay should stay the same, unless the service is excellent, then a tip would be given to the wait-saff. Unfortunately the mindset of required tipping won't go away anytime soon. It's not going to happen until the laws that allow below minimum wage pay are abolished, then wait a few years for people to get into the habit of tipping primarily for quality of service. If there aren't enough customers that are willing to pay the "higher" cost then there doesn't need to be that many upscale restaurants. Sometimes I'd prefer to save a few dollars and walk to the kitchen window and get my own food. If the profit margin is that low for restaurants then they either need to go out of business or reduce expenses, having hidden fees (tips) isn't the answer.
  - anigbrowl 13y ago
    The amount the customers pay would stay the same. But you will get fewer customers because people react more to the up-front price than the future final price. People tend to look at the price of he entree and double it, reflecting the additional cost of a starter, drinks coffee, etc. Only in fast food restaurants do people go in with a clear expectation of paying a specific amount. If the profit margin is that low for restaurants then they either need to go out of business or reduce expenses, having hidden fees (tips) isn't the answer. Most restaurants don't make it to the age of 2. It's already a hyper-competitive business because dining at restaurant A is not a straight economic substitution for dining at restaurant B. People have strong and sometimes irrational preferences about where they dine.
  - larrys 13y ago
    "having hidden fees (tips) isn't the answer." Tips are not hidden fees. In fact if the tip isn't included as part of the charge it isn't even legally required to be paid either. "The amount the customers pay would stay the same." If a businesses expenses go up then their profit goes down. So they either have to accept less profit or they need to raise prices. Please explain another scenario. I'm not talking about some outlier where something else out of the ordinary happened for some other non duplicatable reason. Or how a particular business may charge less than another because they make it up on volume. (There are many particulars to why a business might operate at a different cost structure (location, suppliers as only two examples). "Sometimes I'd prefer to save a few dollars and walk to the kitchen window and get my own food." Ok I see where you are going with this. Have you ever seen what others prefer to do and how actual restaurants operate? It seems that most people don't prefer to "walk to the kitchen window and get their own food".
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
- colinramsay 13y ago
  Well, in the UK this is how every good restaurant operates. Waiting staff get paid a working wage and don't rely on tips to get by - tips will be considered an added extra; something nice to have. Surely that means it's a cultural thing rather than a business thing?
  - larrys 13y ago
    Businesses will typically operate with the standards of what other businesses do wherever they are located. As such it could be out of the question to do it for another way other than whatever the legacy established standards are. So what we are talking about is hypothetically changing behavior that people already expect in their country or community. And not only that doing it individually since it is unlikely that a law would be passed for this. For example if I am the only restaurant in a certain area and I charge $35 for lobster "tip included" what I am saying is that less people will buy lobster than if it is priced (at an equal place) where the lobster is priced at $29 because $29 is a more attractive price "on the menu". I think from my exposure in the business world it is pretty much well established that people respond more favorably to a low price than a high-er price as they aren't not able in their head to either compute the total price or somehow a higher price is just a turnoff or other psychological reasons. If you study advertising you will see this. Not that there aren't places that have done well by not breaking out charges (all inclusive resorts for one thing or cruise ships as another). But speaking of cruise ships they now offer other restaurants where you pay more for the food and for that matter they charge for drinks. And also you don't tip (on the ones I have been on) you pay a daily fee. But note that the daily fee isn't included in the trip cost when you do research but shown as an "added cost" elsewhere in the advertising material (same with some hotels for that matter)
    - pbhjpbhj 13y ago
      >For example if I am the only restaurant in a certain area and I charge $35 for lobster [...] // It's strange but in UK we also have restaurants that add a fixed service charge to bills. There's a note in the menu saying "a service charge of 15% will be added" or something like that. Those sorts of restaurants are often already the most expensive; and of course it's a ruse to keep the apparent price low. The "service charge" is just creative accounting though, the servers just get paid as normal, it's really just a part of your food-bill. Why do you find it unlikely that a law would be passed to force restaurants to be included in minimum wage laws and so actually have to pay reasonable wages? Also when you charge $35 people consider your lobster better, even if it's just a comparatively inflated price.

by dm2 13y ago

larrys 13y ago

"Pay your staff sufficient wages please." In theory means that expenses go up and restaurant then need to charge more on the menu which will in theory result in lower sales and profit (see my other comment).

dm2 13y ago
The amount the customers pay should stay the same, unless the service is excellent, then a tip would be given to the wait-saff. Unfortunately the mindset of required tipping won't go away anytime soon. It's not going to happen until the laws that allow below minimum wage pay are abolished, then wait a few years for people to get into the habit of tipping primarily for quality of service. If there aren't enough customers that are willing to pay the "higher" cost then there doesn't need to be that many upscale restaurants. Sometimes I'd prefer to save a few dollars and walk to the kitchen window and get my own food. If the profit margin is that low for restaurants then they either need to go out of business or reduce expenses, having hidden fees (tips) isn't the answer.
- anigbrowl 13y ago
  The amount the customers pay would stay the same. But you will get fewer customers because people react more to the up-front price than the future final price. People tend to look at the price of he entree and double it, reflecting the additional cost of a starter, drinks coffee, etc. Only in fast food restaurants do people go in with a clear expectation of paying a specific amount. If the profit margin is that low for restaurants then they either need to go out of business or reduce expenses, having hidden fees (tips) isn't the answer. Most restaurants don't make it to the age of 2. It's already a hyper-competitive business because dining at restaurant A is not a straight economic substitution for dining at restaurant B. People have strong and sometimes irrational preferences about where they dine.
- larrys 13y ago
  "having hidden fees (tips) isn't the answer." Tips are not hidden fees. In fact if the tip isn't included as part of the charge it isn't even legally required to be paid either. "The amount the customers pay would stay the same." If a businesses expenses go up then their profit goes down. So they either have to accept less profit or they need to raise prices. Please explain another scenario. I'm not talking about some outlier where something else out of the ordinary happened for some other non duplicatable reason. Or how a particular business may charge less than another because they make it up on volume. (There are many particulars to why a business might operate at a different cost structure (location, suppliers as only two examples). "Sometimes I'd prefer to save a few dollars and walk to the kitchen window and get my own food." Ok I see where you are going with this. Have you ever seen what others prefer to do and how actual restaurants operate? It seems that most people don't prefer to "walk to the kitchen window and get their own food".
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
colinramsay 13y ago
Well, in the UK this is how every good restaurant operates. Waiting staff get paid a working wage and don't rely on tips to get by - tips will be considered an added extra; something nice to have. Surely that means it's a cultural thing rather than a business thing?
- larrys 13y ago
  Businesses will typically operate with the standards of what other businesses do wherever they are located. As such it could be out of the question to do it for another way other than whatever the legacy established standards are. So what we are talking about is hypothetically changing behavior that people already expect in their country or community. And not only that doing it individually since it is unlikely that a law would be passed for this. For example if I am the only restaurant in a certain area and I charge $35 for lobster "tip included" what I am saying is that less people will buy lobster than if it is priced (at an equal place) where the lobster is priced at $29 because $29 is a more attractive price "on the menu". I think from my exposure in the business world it is pretty much well established that people respond more favorably to a low price than a high-er price as they aren't not able in their head to either compute the total price or somehow a higher price is just a turnoff or other psychological reasons. If you study advertising you will see this. Not that there aren't places that have done well by not breaking out charges (all inclusive resorts for one thing or cruise ships as another). But speaking of cruise ships they now offer other restaurants where you pay more for the food and for that matter they charge for drinks. And also you don't tip (on the ones I have been on) you pay a daily fee. But note that the daily fee isn't included in the trip cost when you do research but shown as an "added cost" elsewhere in the advertising material (same with some hotels for that matter)
  - pbhjpbhj 13y ago
    >For example if I am the only restaurant in a certain area and I charge $35 for lobster [...] // It's strange but in UK we also have restaurants that add a fixed service charge to bills. There's a note in the menu saying "a service charge of 15% will be added" or something like that. Those sorts of restaurants are often already the most expensive; and of course it's a ruse to keep the apparent price low. The "service charge" is just creative accounting though, the servers just get paid as normal, it's really just a part of your food-bill. Why do you find it unlikely that a law would be passed to force restaurants to be included in minimum wage laws and so actually have to pay reasonable wages? Also when you charge $35 people consider your lobster better, even if it's just a comparatively inflated price.