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Driving like an idiot while speeding causes accidents. Speeding itself does not cause accidents. Speeding does mean that in the event of an accident, the outc

Driving like an idiot while speeding causes accidents. Speeding itself does not cause accidents. Speeding does mean that in the event of an accident, the outcome is likely to be worse for all involved. And there's no excuse for speeding in a residential area, or anywhere you might see pedestrians (or expect them and be unable to see them). This qualifies as "driving like an idiot".

mikeash 13y ago
I'd like to clarify a bit on "speeding itself does not cause accidents". You're mostly right, but it's not strictly true. There are realistic cases where speeding itself will cause a crash, such as poor visibility where you're driving too fast to stop within the distance you can see, driving fast enough to lose control on poor surfaces, being too fast to take a curve, and such. I don't know how significant it is, I just want to say this because people shouldn't think that they can go as fast as they want as long as they drive well. Sometimes you simply have to slow down. (I got reminded of this last year when I wrecked my car by hydroplaning on the highway. Technically I was within the posted speed limit, but clearly I was going too fast for conditions. Speed definitely caused the accident unless you want to blame the highway department for poor drainage or mother nature for the weather. Which, of course, I do, but I still should have gone slower.)
- GrinningFool 13y ago
  > to stop within the distance you can see, driving fast enough to lose control on poor surfaces, being too fast to take a curve, and such. Agreed, but I classify that as "driving like an idiot" - driving too fast for conditions is in a category beyond speeding. Part of driving well is knowing - outside of concerns for a ticket - when it's possible to speed safely (and by how much), and when it's not.
  - yongjik 13y ago
    I doubt how anybody can claim they're "driving safely" when the only observer is oneself and there is no baseline to compare against. This is about as statistically meaningful as people buying homeopathy stuff because they "know" it works. At least homeopathy doesn't kill bystanders.
    - bryanlarsen 13y ago
      93% of drivers think they're a better than average driver. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_superiority#cite_note-26 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_superiority#cite_note-...
      - azth 13y ago
        While I know what you're getting at, it is possible to have X > 50% of a sample be better (or worse) than the average -- just being pedantic :)
      - nb4hnp 13y ago
        People who complain about motorists being incompetent often fail to remember the thousands of other cars that they pass every single day without incident. 93% actually sounds low for people who are probably decent enough drivers. It's the rest of them that cause the problems that everyone loves to dwell on.
      - bagels 13y ago
        Amazingly... (assuming normal distribution) more than half of them are probably correct.
    - GrinningFool 13y ago
      Nobody can judge what speed is safe for road conditions? A good driver can - even when that speed is actually lower than the posted speed limit.
  - hammock 13y ago
    >I doubt how anybody can claim they're "driving safely" when the only observer is oneself and there is no baseline to compare against. Don't we all get observed and evaluated by a driving instructor before being licensed (think about what that word means) to drive? I'd say that meets your criteria
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
    - mikeash 13y ago
      In theory, yes. In practice, driving instruction and testing in the US is ludicrously inadequate. The driving test here is little more than making sure you're capable of writing your own name.
- rmc 13y ago
  Driving well includes knowing when to slow down.
bradleyjg 13y ago
This attitude is exactly why I think that vehicular assault and homicide should be prosecuted even if alcohol isn't involved. Every jerk with a fast car thinks he's god's gift to driving and the rules shouldn't apply to him. Then when there's a crash it's described as an accident. In the overwhelming number of cases it wasn't an accident, it was negligence, often criminal negligence. You want to drive fast go to a track, on the public roadways follow the damn law.
- harshreality 13y ago
  > You want to drive fast go to a track, on the public roadways follow the damn law. The "jerks with fast cars" group that you're targeting is breaking the same laws that 99% of other drivers break. In some ways, other drivers are worse. Nobody obeys posted speed limits, except on side streets. Very few people pay enough attention to their driving; they're mostly talking on cell phones or daydreaming or talking to a passenger. Jerks with fast cars, at least, are focused on driving. Collisions at those speeds may not be survivable, but I don't want to get into any collision at highway speeds; their driving patterns are more predictable, and I prefer them over distracted or ADHD drivers who make quick lane changes without proper awareness.
  - aeturnum 13y ago
    >Jerks with fast cars, at least, are focused on driving. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't, but I doubt speed is a good predictor of attention or skill. Poor drivers have a greater risk of causing an accident than skilled drivers at all speeds. We still punish skilled drivers the same as poor drivers because it's hard to differentiate between them. Take a driver of unknown skill who's driving 1 standard deviation above the speed limit. He could be above-average, and be just as safe as an average driver going the speed limit. He could also be below-average and believe he's safe - but would actually need to go one standard deviation slower than the speed limit to match the safety limit of the skilled driver. So, we punish them both the same, because we can't know.
  - thaumaturgy 13y ago
    Yeah. I don't generally care too much if somebody's going a bit fast, so long as they aren't driving erratically. What does cause a lot of swearing and the occasional close call: - People merging on or off the highway at unsafe speeds (usually, too slow), without looking and picking a spot in traffic to merge into; - People "being polite" at intersections; - People not using their turn signals; - People cutting in traffic, swerving, cutting off other cars, tailgating, or otherwise driving too aggressively; - People trying to beat the light; - People talking on the damn phone -- I don't care who you are, you can't do that and pay full attention to the road at the same time; - People daydreaming, hanging out with their passengers, otherwise not paying attention to traffic both ahead and behind them. Fast drivers are almost the least offensive nuisance on the road.
danbruc 13y ago
This just raised the question in me how efficient speed limits are. Being from Germany with no speed limit on the Autobahn I expected to see at least a slightly higher number of road fatalities in Germany. A quick look at Wikipedia confirmed that speed limits in the USA and in Germany are roughly comparable besides the unlimited Autobahn where people driving at 130 mph and more is not uncommon. [1] USA Germany Towns 25 – 45 majority 31, some 18 - 43 Single Carriageway 55 62 Dual Carriageway 65 - 80 unlimited, 80 advisory To my surprise I found the following numbers for road fatalities per million inhabitants in 2010. [2] USA 105 Germany 45 Any ideas how this could be explained? Could it matter that Germany is way smaller and the way to the next hospital is often shorter? [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limits_by_country http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limits_by_country [2] http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verkehrstod#Dimensionen http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verkehrstod#Dimensionen
- Pxtl 13y ago
  More likely it's the lower number of driving-hours per-person. The longer you drive, the greater the odds that something can go wrong. Germany, like most of Europe, has dense old urban cities and good transit infrastructure compared to American suburban sprawl. That means the average German doesn't spend as much time behind the wheel, if at all. I wouldn't be surprised if Germany is substantially more dangerous per-driving-kilometer than the USA, but with far fewer driving-kms per person. Also, remember that in many locations the "speed limit" isnt' really the defining thing that controls how drivers handle the road - many dense twisty urban environments are tight-enough to navigate that drivers instinctively take it slow and never even approach the speed limit. This tremendously reduces the odds of a fatality, although it does make minor scrapes pretty common.
  - danbruc 13y ago
    You might be spot on - 7,500 kilometers per capita and year in Germany (2011) and 15,000 kilometers per capita and year in the USA (2013). This gives the same ratio as the road fatalities do.

mikeash 13y ago

I'd like to clarify a bit on "speeding itself does not cause accidents". You're mostly right, but it's not strictly true. There are realistic cases where speeding itself will cause a crash, such as poor visibility where you're driving too fast to stop within the distance you can see, driving fast enough to lose control on poor surfaces, being too fast to take a curve, and such. I don't know how significant it is, I just want to say this because people shouldn't think that they can go as fast as they want as long as they drive well. Sometimes you simply have to slow down. (I got reminded of this last year when I wrecked my car by hydroplaning on the highway. Technically I was within the posted speed limit, but clearly I was going too fast for conditions. Speed definitely caused the accident unless you want to blame the highway department for poor drainage or mother nature for the weather. Which, of course, I do, but I still should have gone slower.)

GrinningFool 13y ago
> to stop within the distance you can see, driving fast enough to lose control on poor surfaces, being too fast to take a curve, and such. Agreed, but I classify that as "driving like an idiot" - driving too fast for conditions is in a category beyond speeding. Part of driving well is knowing - outside of concerns for a ticket - when it's possible to speed safely (and by how much), and when it's not.
- yongjik 13y ago
  I doubt how anybody can claim they're "driving safely" when the only observer is oneself and there is no baseline to compare against. This is about as statistically meaningful as people buying homeopathy stuff because they "know" it works. At least homeopathy doesn't kill bystanders.
  - bryanlarsen 13y ago
    93% of drivers think they're a better than average driver. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_superiority#cite_note-26 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_superiority#cite_note-...
    - azth 13y ago
      While I know what you're getting at, it is possible to have X > 50% of a sample be better (or worse) than the average -- just being pedantic :)
    - nb4hnp 13y ago
      People who complain about motorists being incompetent often fail to remember the thousands of other cars that they pass every single day without incident. 93% actually sounds low for people who are probably decent enough drivers. It's the rest of them that cause the problems that everyone loves to dwell on.
    - bagels 13y ago
      Amazingly... (assuming normal distribution) more than half of them are probably correct.
  - GrinningFool 13y ago
    Nobody can judge what speed is safe for road conditions? A good driver can - even when that speed is actually lower than the posted speed limit.
- hammock 13y ago
  >I doubt how anybody can claim they're "driving safely" when the only observer is oneself and there is no baseline to compare against. Don't we all get observed and evaluated by a driving instructor before being licensed (think about what that word means) to drive? I'd say that meets your criteria
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - mikeash 13y ago
    In theory, yes. In practice, driving instruction and testing in the US is ludicrously inadequate. The driving test here is little more than making sure you're capable of writing your own name.
rmc 13y ago
Driving well includes knowing when to slow down.

bradleyjg 13y ago

This attitude is exactly why I think that vehicular assault and homicide should be prosecuted even if alcohol isn't involved. Every jerk with a fast car thinks he's god's gift to driving and the rules shouldn't apply to him. Then when there's a crash it's described as an accident. In the overwhelming number of cases it wasn't an accident, it was negligence, often criminal negligence. You want to drive fast go to a track, on the public roadways follow the damn law.

harshreality 13y ago
> You want to drive fast go to a track, on the public roadways follow the damn law. The "jerks with fast cars" group that you're targeting is breaking the same laws that 99% of other drivers break. In some ways, other drivers are worse. Nobody obeys posted speed limits, except on side streets. Very few people pay enough attention to their driving; they're mostly talking on cell phones or daydreaming or talking to a passenger. Jerks with fast cars, at least, are focused on driving. Collisions at those speeds may not be survivable, but I don't want to get into any collision at highway speeds; their driving patterns are more predictable, and I prefer them over distracted or ADHD drivers who make quick lane changes without proper awareness.
- aeturnum 13y ago
  >Jerks with fast cars, at least, are focused on driving. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't, but I doubt speed is a good predictor of attention or skill. Poor drivers have a greater risk of causing an accident than skilled drivers at all speeds. We still punish skilled drivers the same as poor drivers because it's hard to differentiate between them. Take a driver of unknown skill who's driving 1 standard deviation above the speed limit. He could be above-average, and be just as safe as an average driver going the speed limit. He could also be below-average and believe he's safe - but would actually need to go one standard deviation slower than the speed limit to match the safety limit of the skilled driver. So, we punish them both the same, because we can't know.
- thaumaturgy 13y ago
  Yeah. I don't generally care too much if somebody's going a bit fast, so long as they aren't driving erratically. What does cause a lot of swearing and the occasional close call: - People merging on or off the highway at unsafe speeds (usually, too slow), without looking and picking a spot in traffic to merge into; - People "being polite" at intersections; - People not using their turn signals; - People cutting in traffic, swerving, cutting off other cars, tailgating, or otherwise driving too aggressively; - People trying to beat the light; - People talking on the damn phone -- I don't care who you are, you can't do that and pay full attention to the road at the same time; - People daydreaming, hanging out with their passengers, otherwise not paying attention to traffic both ahead and behind them. Fast drivers are almost the least offensive nuisance on the road.

danbruc 13y ago

This just raised the question in me how efficient speed limits are. Being from Germany with no speed limit on the Autobahn I expected to see at least a slightly higher number of road fatalities in Germany. A quick look at Wikipedia confirmed that speed limits in the USA and in Germany are roughly comparable besides the unlimited Autobahn where people driving at 130 mph and more is not uncommon. [1] USA Germany Towns 25 – 45 majority 31, some 18 - 43 Single Carriageway 55 62 Dual Carriageway 65 - 80 unlimited, 80 advisory To my surprise I found the following numbers for road fatalities per million inhabitants in 2010. [2] USA 105 Germany 45 Any ideas how this could be explained? Could it matter that Germany is way smaller and the way to the next hospital is often shorter? [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limits_by_country http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limits_by_country [2] http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verkehrstod#Dimensionen http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verkehrstod#Dimensionen

Pxtl 13y ago
More likely it's the lower number of driving-hours per-person. The longer you drive, the greater the odds that something can go wrong. Germany, like most of Europe, has dense old urban cities and good transit infrastructure compared to American suburban sprawl. That means the average German doesn't spend as much time behind the wheel, if at all. I wouldn't be surprised if Germany is substantially more dangerous per-driving-kilometer than the USA, but with far fewer driving-kms per person. Also, remember that in many locations the "speed limit" isnt' really the defining thing that controls how drivers handle the road - many dense twisty urban environments are tight-enough to navigate that drivers instinctively take it slow and never even approach the speed limit. This tremendously reduces the odds of a fatality, although it does make minor scrapes pretty common.
- danbruc 13y ago
  You might be spot on - 7,500 kilometers per capita and year in Germany (2011) and 15,000 kilometers per capita and year in the USA (2013). This gives the same ratio as the road fatalities do.