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Apple declines to join Microsoft in funding patent troll Intellectual Ventures
- Karunamon 13y agoIs it admirable when someone does the right thing for the wrong reason?
- revscat 13y agoUsually, yes. What is the wrong reason you are speaking of? None was given in the article itself.
- i_s 13y agoThe article mentions that > While Apple invested in earlier IV funds, its reluctance to do so again may stem from the fact that it is being swamped by trolls itself It is the wrong reason if you accept that patent trolling is wrong. Analogy: murder is wrong, so if someone only stops murdering people because their own family members were murdered, it would be the wrong reason.
- mitchty 13y agoMaybe its the best we can expect of a corporation. It is also a bit of a guess to be honest, maybe they aren't getting a good return on investment or who knows maybe they just don't feel like investing in them any longer.
- mildtrepidation 13y agoMaybe its the best we can expect of a corporation. Corporations don't make decisions; they don't do anything at all. The people who control them do. "A corporation" isn't even a single abstraction; there are so many different kinds and even the same kind can be set up and run so many different ways that having any expectation (or lack thereof) of "a corporation" is meaningless. A good result from bad intentions isn't admirable. A war economy can create jobs, among other things, but that result doesn't make going to war an admirable decision.
- Karunamon 13y agoCorporations don't make decisions; they don't do anything at all. Nitpick - corporate leadership is responsible for the actions of those they lead. Everyone knows what we're talking about when someone says "Microsoft did this" or "Y Combinator did that". It's a convenient shorthand that omits no useful information. Nobody cares about the difference between an LLC and an S Corp and a Nonprofit when discussing corporate behavior (or lack thereof!) - their collective actions can and should still be critically evaluated through the same rubric.
- coldtea 13y ago>Corporations don't make decisions; they don't do anything at all. The people who control them do. The people that take those decisions are many and have various roles. The aggregate of them, we call a "corporation". Think of it like an emergent entity. It's not just a person (e.g the CEO) making a decision all by himself. It's the whole leadership, the Board of directors, shareholders, the financial and market condition of the company, it's history etc. In your logic, people don't take decisions and don't do anything either. Their brain does.
- gcb0 13y agothe real reason is probably that apple is a pattent troll themselves. why would they cross one target (microsoft, and possibly several other microsoft partners) off their list by joining this? remember that not even patent trolls have tried to enforce design patents as IP before apple. They are really good at trolling. ALso, do not forgot job's emails to the RIM ceo during the valleygate.
- pmelendez 13y ago>"why would they cross one target (microsoft, and possibly several other microsoft partners)" They have agreements already so is not that is going to be a huge target anyway [1] [1] http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/13/3239977/apple-and-microsoft-cross-license-agreement-includes-anti-cloning http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/13/3239977/apple-and-microsof...
- gcb0 13y agosorry for not following the latest news in patent troll world :) but that new agreement would allow samsung to join later on, maybe?
- headShrinker 13y agomurdering is too far outside the norm, in current American society. Paying patent troll is common place for corps. Take something like I don't know, polluting. When are you, or I or anyone going to stop polluting? When the realized benefits, out way the immediate costs.
- inafield 13y agoWhere is Jason Bourne when we need him?
- chc 13y agoIsn't "I realized the harm I was causing by my actions" a good reason to stop taking that action?
- marcosdumay 13y agoPeople have to learn somehow. Some are open to take lessons from the nice sources, other keep ignoring lessons until reality slaps them. That said, this one act does not yet convince me that Apple learned its lesson. It's only a possibility.
- higherpurpose 13y agoWell, that's a first. But good on them, I guess. Now if only they did the same with Rockstar.
- leoc 13y agoIn the meantime: paging the new, open, friendly Microsoft! Paging nice Mr. Nadella! Ring, ring, ring.
- jgable 13y agoCan someone explain the motivations of the major players here? The posted article references another Reuters article that goes into a little more detail: "Several large tech companies previously invested in IV, which gave them low-cost licenses to IV's vast patent portfolios as well as a portion of royalties IV collected." However, investments like this seem pretty short-sighted, and I would have thought that all players in the tech space would have woken up to the dangers of patent trolls years ago. What explains the continued behavior of Microsoft? Is this just another version of paying off the trolls to make them leave you alone?
- Zigurd 13y agoYou would think the tech industry wouldn't have lifted the poison chalice of DRM, either. And yet, the nerds get played again.
- JetSpiegel 13y agoTech Industry. Nerds. Does not compute.
- roc 13y ago> " Is this just another version of paying off the trolls to make them leave you alone?" That's absolutely what this is. Instead of being on the receiving end of a thousand lawsuits, you 'invest' in IV, which gives you a license to any and all of the patents they have and will acquire for some term after your investment. It's a further optimization of the 'pay them to go away' method of dealing with patent trolls, as you're not paying each shell company for each patent, you just pay the parent company once.
- jgable 13y agoI understand small companies caving to the demands of patent trolls, because fighting is more costly than they can afford. I like to think I'd have the courage to act differently, but I understand the rationale. But a behemoth like Microsoft or Sony? Why pay up? You hear the mantra all the time: "We do not negotiate with terrorists." It seems obvious it's worse for them in the long run, and they can afford to play the long game. Maybe I'm being naive about the costs at stake here.
- will_brown 13y ago>in February, [Apple] complained that it has had to go to court with trolls 92 times in the last three years. Yet Apple holds a $1Billion+ judgment on Samsung for violation of Apple's design patent for rectangular device with rounded corners in addition to "pinch and zoom" and "bounce back".
- matthewmacleod 13y agoBlah, blah, blah. That's not patent trolling.
- roc 13y agoPatent Trolling was defined due to the 'trolls' being "non-practicing entities" -- a fact which obviates cross-licensing, counter-suit and basically any strategy other than the simple math of "license cost" (to comply) vs "legal cost" (to fight). Trying to conflate a suit between Apple and Samsung with Patent Trolling is to rob the term of all meaning and essentially lump every action under "patents are bad". Which is certainly as valid an opinion as any. But such an opinion doesn't make any distinction between practicing entities and trolls, and as such it makes no sense to voice that opinion using a word that exists solely to make such a distinction.
- dragonwriter 13y agoI think this is factually incorrect, that trolling was used for the tactic of milking patents for financial extortion, separately from the identification of the class of actors known as "non-practicing entities" who, as a class, are known for frequently employing (and being particularly difficult to constrain when they employ) the tactic. But, while the two concepts are related, they aren't identical -- trolling is an action (and trolls are those who engage in that action), while NPEs are a class of entities distinguished independently of their engagement in trolling (despite frequently also engaging in trolling.) You don't have to be an NPE to be a troll, or vice versa.
- leoc 13y agoBut will_brown didn't say that Apple was patent trolling. It's perfectly reasonable to respond to Apple's reported impatience with one form of patent scumbucketry by pointing out that they're still cheerfully engaging in a somewhat different form of it themselves.
- collyw 13y agoI thought Apple were king of the patent trolls these days.
- LukeWalsh 13y agoI'm hoping this has to do with a change in policy in regards to these types of issues, but I'm skeptical. It could just be an anomaly. We need a major tech company like Apple to take a stand against these types of lawsuits before we will see any real policy change.
- pflats 13y agoOne of IV's related-but-unrelated companies, Lodsys, sued a ton of developers for using Apple's purchasing API, despite Apple themselves having paid for a license for that patent. I can't imagine Apple counsel was very happy about that.
- harrygold 13y agoDon't count on Apple to take a stand. Apple is no better. They along with Microsoft and Sony funded billions into Rockstar Consortium, inc which stifles innovation through the patent warchest. https://twitter.com/paulg/status/396141269035925504 https://twitter.com/paulg/status/396141269035925504
- astrodust 13y agoCitation needed on Apple beating up on smaller companies by using patents. If anything Apple's stood in the way of patent trolls and threatened to inject themselves in any lawsuit filed for the Lodsys patent, making it much harder for Lodsys to win or back out. They've been engaged in a patent war with Samsung, Google, et. al, but this is a whole different game. I'm not saying I approve of this, but they haven't been picking on little companies. Microsoft, by contrast, is making hundreds of millions in license fees for questionable patents impacting Android devices.
- lostlogin 13y agoI'm not disputing, as I know nothing about this, but isn't the Apple V Samsung thing very similar to Microsoft V Android? Big companies throwing their weight around? Or is Microsoft hitting small guys?
- chasing 13y agoWhen you talk about IV, use the name Nathan Myhrvold. Hell, they have a picture of him right there. One of the best measures we have against Mr. Myhrvold -- given that he seems interested in portraying himself as a public genius of some sort -- is to drag his name through the mud over this. He's not the guy who studied with Stephen Hawking. He's not the guy who wrote the molecular gastronomy tome. He's the very, very rich guy who wants to drag down the entire tech industry to get even richer.
- dyscrete 13y agoSome people have no shame.
- jonlucc 13y agoJust for clarification, is it a different guy entirely, or is he just exposing a much darker side?
- chasing 13y agoSame guy. He likes to turn up in places like the recent Freakonomics book and the Colbert Report to show off his brilliance. But his actual day job is this nonsense.
- midas007 13y agoSo a glorified crowbar-wielding thug that says: "Pay your protection fees or else we're heading to the kangaroo courts of East Texas."
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- Steko 13y agoNathan Myhrvold is a hero, bolding hacking the legal system and showing where it's vulnerabilities are so Congress can step in an-- oh who am I kidding he's pretty much the worst. Nathan a proper astroturfing is going to cost you 10% of your revenue, I'm willing to edit this comment in your favor if you want to do this the easy way.
- amaks 13y agoWhy new, open, honest Microsoft is still doing it? Or, judging by this action, may be it's still the same, large company, and openness is just a facade?
- cordite 13y agoTheir recent movies really boosted how I felt about them. After several years (after Vista) of staying far away, I decided to give them a try once more with their Windows 7 phone. Totally abandoned and betrayed on that.
- rbanffy 13y agoWhen you write something like this, please, make it clear you are being sarcastic at the start of the paragraph. I almost spilled my coffee over the keyboard.
- ramchip 13y agoLarge companies are made of many people who sometimes have different goals and ideals.
- sytelus 13y agoBill Gates and IV chief have very deep relationship. There have been reports of Gates attending brainstorming sessions at IV office to generate patentable ideas. I honestly think IV has managed to sold Gates on the some beautiful vision. Or perhaps its just creating FUD that if you don't join in our patent cartel, others will get you. There are also reports that many IV employees have deeper access at Microsoft. For example, IV employees are regularly invited to otherwise employee-only event that Microsoft Research organizes every year. This is unprecedented level of access considering none public information there. Besides Microsoft is currently on defence and it can use all ammo that IV offers for small "membership" fee of their patent cartel.
- Bahamut 13y agoThis is misleading - Apple previously invested in IV.
- micampe 13y agoFirst paragraph: Intellectual Ventures (IV) is seeking a major new investment to expand its controversial patent trolling operations but, unlike on past occasions, Apple is not coming along for the ride.
- simonh 13y ago> ...unlike on past occasions, Apple is not coming along for the ride. What's misleading about that? Did you read the article?
- Bahamut 13y agoI did. The title of the article is what is misleading, as if Apple chose to not fund IV for the first time.
- LeoNatan25 13y agoAdmit it, you read just the title. ;-) April 1 no more: https://www.facebook.com/NPR/posts/10202059501509428?stream_ref=10 https://www.facebook.com/NPR/posts/10202059501509428?stream_...
- Bahamut 13y agoI almost never comment on articles unless I've read it completely (although a few days ago I rightfully got downvoted for incorrect comments, partly due to not reading the link) - I'm against hasty judgment in general. That said, my point still stands. The title does not accurately reflect the content of the article. A more accurate title would be "Apple declines to increase their funding for patent troll Intellectual Ventures" Edited for more informative title
- 13y ago
- yuhong 13y agoAnother one to put on my wishlist for Satya.
- rajbala 13y agoFrom an interview of Nathan Myhrvold on Fareed Zakaria: Zakaria: How worried are you that the United States is no longer going to be the place that invents the future? Myhrvold: I'm very worried. Current course and speed --- we're very good at inventing, uh, but we're also undermining our ability to do that in lots of ways. <facepalm>
- moonchrome 13y agoExploit the flaws in the system until people are forced to make changes - and get rich while doing it - the unsung hero.
- midas007 13y agoAnd also be sure to get rich (Big-4 style) by offering to "fix" the system you helped break. Rinse, later, repeat.
- tzs 13y agoHow come it is news that Apple invested in an IV fund in the past, but is not investing in this new IV fund, but it is not news that Google invested in an IV fund in the past, but is not investing (as far as we know) in this new IV fund? Or Yahoo? Or Nvidia?
- djjaxe 13y agoBecause Apple usually just goes along for the ride...?
- gress 13y agoBecause mindlessly associating Apple with almost anything gets clicks, and that's the purpose of news sites.
- r00fus 13y agoBecause Rockstar [1]. This time around they're not supporting the crazy. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockstar_Consortium http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockstar_Consortium edit: reference
- mercurial 13y agoThat's the sort of thing that I keep mind whenever I see Microsoft moving in the right direction (eg, by opening their C# compiler). I can't help but liken it to the mob giving some of its extortion money to charity in a bid to show that they're good people.
- yp_maplist 13y agoI always thought there was a humorous irony in Mr. Myhrvold's half-baked efforts to eradicate malaria. That's because IV itself is a parasite.
- jgamman 13y agonot even sure if it's off topic but ex-IV senior manager Chris Somogyi is now a GM at NZ's newly created R&D/innovation/commercialisation agency: http://www.callaghaninnovation.govt.nz/about-us/key-people/executive-leadership-team http://www.callaghaninnovation.govt.nz/about-us/key-people/e... I have no idea what he's up or why he was head-hunted to lil ol' NZ but an ex-IV guy in a major role in a central funding hub of an entire country's R&D system kind of weirds me out. My conspiracy tendencies are high normally, this takes it to 11. Any comments from a community that might have worked/interacted with him?