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I really tend to struggle with Tesla whenever I read these kinds of things. On the one hand, I generally feel like they tend to shed light on areas where custo

I really tend to struggle with Tesla whenever I read these kinds of things. On the one hand, I generally feel like they tend to shed light on areas where customers, the media, politicians, etc. are messing with them. On the other, something about the tactics they use seem...off. It's almost like they're bullying people who they don't like or disagree with. In this case, it seems like the guy and his lawyer are really just messing around and being dishonest, and it's a situation that Tesla can gain the upper hand on. But. What happens in 5 years when Tesla is 10x bigger than it is now, and doesn't do things so perfectly or well at scale? I really wonder if this type of almost-militant napalm style PR will be handled so deftly. What happens when they get it wrong? I think there's sufficient evidence that they already kind of blew it with the journalist they went after previously, and it just seems like no good will come from this culture over time. So I'm conflicted. I love their products. I'm rooting for the company, but I do hate these kinds of whiny posts. Tesla is better than this, I hope.

hosh 13y ago
I don't know if this comes off as whiny to me, but I get what you're saying. There is a sort of defensiveness to posts like this. They do have something to prove, after all, though it easily come across as having a chip on the shoulder. It also reminds me of interaction of software companies with customers. Sometimes, engineers get fixated on measurable things that they failed to see things that are not measured. Customer satisfaction is not easily captured by metrics. I think it is fine the way it is now, and watch for when Tesla gets a lot bigger.
- ztratar 13y ago
  This all feels like the necessities of politics. What I see here is likeley what enabled Musk to navigate the political arena with such ease -- he continually does the right thing but isn't scared to throw a jab in the opposite direction. When he applies the jab, he pushes it through with extreme force all while asking permission to stop and let the whole thing work it's course. At the same time he's playing other tactics that are lining his ducks up in a row. These are classic power moves, tried and tried again throughout history. It seems Tesla, SpaceX, and Elon himself have them nearly mastered. Very impressive, IMO, even though it feels odd.
- burnte 13y ago
  I agree that satisfaction is not easily measures, in this case the consumer is complaining that a fuse kept blowing, and when they decided to try to detect tampering, the fuse was magically fixed. Correlation is not causation, but sometimes it's a damn powerful indicator.
annon 13y ago
In this case, the lawyer is going to try to smear Tesla, hoping that they'll settle quickly to get him to shut up. Which more or less is extortion. This is Tesla sending a message to all lemon law lawyers that they do not negotiate with terrorists. Seems fair to me.
- ztratar 13y ago
  Exactly. Precedent is the foundation of the entire legal system. If you get one BS lawsuit based on dummed-up charges thrown out of court and show a history of working with customers, it will make all future similar legal cases much more difficult.
- kyleblarson 13y ago
  This lawsuit definitely sounds frivolous, but it also makes me think of something my grandfather always used to say about getting involved in arguments that will only serve to make you look bad: don't piss with the skunks.
  - conkrete 13y ago
    Had this article never been written, I would never know one could sue over lemon laws. This blog helps people see inside a world that we might not otherwise. Surely something we don't remotely ponder on a day-to-day basis. While I agree that publicizing frivolous arguments typically is uncalled for; Tesla has been the target of many attacks for which I initially thought were unsafe product design. If not for this blog I might think it's common for a Tesla to catch fire at random, or that they don't travel the advertised distances. I think re-wording segments of these blogs to be more factual and less emotionally driven would be nice. The openess that they are trying to provide is at least noteworthy.
    - cpwright 13y ago
      Why is it uncalled for to publicize the lawsuit if it is frivolous? In general, it may be bad PR; but if you're willing to file a suit that is public. There is no reason to cede the initiative to the plaintiff if you think they are trying to manipulate you.
jfoster 13y ago
I think they are intentionally trying to build a reputation as a company that shouldn't be messed with. It may be saving them from a lot of this type of stuff. Additionally might be protecting them from negative reviews. I see your point about that, but it's also an interesting tactic from a company that knew it will be up against so many barriers.
- unreal37 13y ago
  This strategy comes right from the top, I think. Elon Musk has always been "over the top" when it comes to defending Tesla from negative publicity. The funny thing about this to me is that they report the trunk was opened immediately before the fuse blew each time. Ha! If you own a Tesla, you should know that they can monitor any action you take with that car. But I don't blame them for this type of post. People attack them, and their defense is overwhelming.
etler 13y ago
I think they're addressing a public complaint. When other companies provide vague responses or simply say "no comment", people complain. Tesla tries very hard to be faultless, apparently to a fault.
philmcc 13y ago
I hope someone writes a book about this one day -- the transition from being the underdog to the dominant player in the field. It seems like a very difficult transition, both for the contestant and the fan. While I understand where you're coming from, it does feel a little bit about being conflicted over the possibility of a company doing something bad in the future.
- lugg 13y ago
  Early adopters will almost always feel some kind of shafting when a company grows. Early adopters just aren't looking for the same things as the broader public. They can always try to have a less painful transition but I think the adopters need to start to learn how to meet companies half way.
- kodeninja 13y ago
  The Master Switch, by Tim Wu, comes pretty close: http://www.amazon.com/The-Master-Switch-Information-Empires/dp/0307390993 http://www.amazon.com/The-Master-Switch-Information-Empires/...
mlieberman85 13y ago
I think this approach is a breath of fresh air given the track record of so many other companies that say "no comment." In the end they're protecting their brand. For as long as they can they have to be the company that goes above and beyond when it comes to reliability, safety, customer satisfaction, etc. Otherwise they just end up becoming the next Fisker. It makes sense why they're so militant, especially given the media's often negative attention and how it can kill a small company (compared to the big car companies) like this.
jamesaguilar 13y ago
Telling your side of the story is not "bullying" just because your side of the story is extremely compelling. Not to be too much of a prescriptivist, but it would be good if we reserved bullying for something with at least some remote connection to its original meaning, which is linked to injustice and violence of a verbal or physical form.
irishjohnnie 13y ago
It looks like the Lemon King went public first and Tesla PR is just counter attacking.
IgorPartola 13y ago
I know exactly what you are talking about. They say all the right things but the tone is generally somewhat accusatory. I read the same thing between the lines in the response to the journalist running out of charge doing a long drive. Another example is the interview where Musl called the Prius a lawn mower when asked about electric cars and completely skirted around talking about the Chevy Volt (IMHO the best current plug-in drivetrain.)
- iancarroll 13y ago
  To be fair what the lawyer is doing is obvious.
  - IgorPartola 13y ago
    Absolutely. And Tesla makes a great product. That is why I am surprised by how defensive and passive aggressive their tone seems at times.
melindajb 13y ago
You're prematurely optimizing. Tactics that work at one level of growth, do not work at others. That is why leadership often, but not always, changes. For example, take Microsoft. They were aggressive and bullying early on, because they had to be. Later on, those tactics when they were the dominant OS led to a pretty brutal DOJ situation. For now, though Elon is doing what needs to be done to change the world. I applaud him. He's up against some seriously powerful forces: the oil industry, the automotive industry. This is just like a scrappy app startup going against Microsoft--times 100.
kmt 13y ago
Well, while small, "do things that don't scale". We'll see what they figure out later on.
icelancer 13y ago
Huh? Tesla is simply rebutting every single ridiculous claim with data, over and over again. If that's "bullying" (are we ignoring the fact the consumer FILED A LAWSUIT here?), then Americans have really gotten way too sensitive.
TwistVolt 13y ago
Tesla has a spine, called Musk. It may not be popular to push against sensation seeking lawyers or dealer networks but he does what's right, and in the end, that's all that really matters.
TheMagicHorsey 13y ago
I see. So for a fear of future possible abuse by a future possibly big company, today we should ignore this blatant extortion attempt by a lawyer, in order to sympathize with this "poor, helpless" consumer? This isn't a whiny post. This is exactly how companies should use social media to weed out these parasitic lawyers. Where the fuck is your concern for all these garbage costs that get put on the consumer because of these parasites? You should love this use of social media, because it actually makes our economy and legal system work better.
- Shivetya 13y ago
  No, they should be using courts of law and not the court of public opinion to solve the case. Once they win the later then they can take it to the former. Honestly what they are doing is in bad taste. You certainly don't go an attack like this. I like Tesla's cars, I certainly don't like paying people to buy them and I really don't like tactics like this. Face it, if Ford or GM tried this stunt people here would be crawling up their ass.
  - ntakasaki 13y ago
    Did you see the viral video that the lawyer made? https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UUaelOgVXLe-1a3PUpob3upQ&v=V4ALbVQwRT8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UUaelOgVXLe-1a3PUpob3upQ&... Looks like Tesla is justified in trying to neutralize that slimy attempt at publicity.
    - jabelk 13y ago
      Jesus. As someone on youtube noted, take a close look at around 0:50. You can see lights flash, which seems very likely to have been from someone unlocking the car. Right after, the door handles miraculously start working again. The whole thing reeks.
      - oh_sigh 13y ago
        Does anyone know how teslas behave when you touch their door handles? Do the rear lights ever flash?
phaemon 13y ago
What a wonderful "concern trolling" post. At no point do you actually mention anything that Tesla has done wrong in the slightest, yet you manage to imply that they're the bad guys in this scenario. Thanks for your contribution to human culture.
- onetwofiveten 13y ago
  Let me paraphrase what is going on here: nemesisj's comment - "Tesla is probably in the right here, but their response to threats tends be heavy handed and defensive." your comment - "Tesla is in the right, you are trolling. Snark." I guess maybe you missed the point that Tesla can be the good guy in a lawsuit and still act in a way that seems unprofessional and worrying to a potential future customer.
  - phaemon 13y ago
    Don't paraphrase my posts; you're terrible at it. At no point did I say that Tesla was in the right. I explicitly said that he hadn't mentioned Tesla doing anything wrong.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
bane 13y ago
I dunno. I feel a similar sense of discomfort. But at the same time, people will do crazy things to get attention, attacking a supremely popular company with an excellent reputation for reliability is not surprising.
cpwright 13y ago
If they don't do things so perfectly or well at scale, and then have a "bad attitude" about it, they will likely turn off customers, lose their stellar reputation, and will have less of a problem at scale. The market will provide an excellent feedback loop.
beedogs 13y ago
Pretty horrible comment, honestly. Seems like a bunch of idle speculation slathered in a good helping of parochialism.

hosh 13y ago

I don't know if this comes off as whiny to me, but I get what you're saying. There is a sort of defensiveness to posts like this. They do have something to prove, after all, though it easily come across as having a chip on the shoulder. It also reminds me of interaction of software companies with customers. Sometimes, engineers get fixated on measurable things that they failed to see things that are not measured. Customer satisfaction is not easily captured by metrics. I think it is fine the way it is now, and watch for when Tesla gets a lot bigger.

ztratar 13y ago
This all feels like the necessities of politics. What I see here is likeley what enabled Musk to navigate the political arena with such ease -- he continually does the right thing but isn't scared to throw a jab in the opposite direction. When he applies the jab, he pushes it through with extreme force all while asking permission to stop and let the whole thing work it's course. At the same time he's playing other tactics that are lining his ducks up in a row. These are classic power moves, tried and tried again throughout history. It seems Tesla, SpaceX, and Elon himself have them nearly mastered. Very impressive, IMO, even though it feels odd.
burnte 13y ago
I agree that satisfaction is not easily measures, in this case the consumer is complaining that a fuse kept blowing, and when they decided to try to detect tampering, the fuse was magically fixed. Correlation is not causation, but sometimes it's a damn powerful indicator.

annon 13y ago

In this case, the lawyer is going to try to smear Tesla, hoping that they'll settle quickly to get him to shut up. Which more or less is extortion. This is Tesla sending a message to all lemon law lawyers that they do not negotiate with terrorists. Seems fair to me.

ztratar 13y ago
Exactly. Precedent is the foundation of the entire legal system. If you get one BS lawsuit based on dummed-up charges thrown out of court and show a history of working with customers, it will make all future similar legal cases much more difficult.
kyleblarson 13y ago
This lawsuit definitely sounds frivolous, but it also makes me think of something my grandfather always used to say about getting involved in arguments that will only serve to make you look bad: don't piss with the skunks.
- conkrete 13y ago
  Had this article never been written, I would never know one could sue over lemon laws. This blog helps people see inside a world that we might not otherwise. Surely something we don't remotely ponder on a day-to-day basis. While I agree that publicizing frivolous arguments typically is uncalled for; Tesla has been the target of many attacks for which I initially thought were unsafe product design. If not for this blog I might think it's common for a Tesla to catch fire at random, or that they don't travel the advertised distances. I think re-wording segments of these blogs to be more factual and less emotionally driven would be nice. The openess that they are trying to provide is at least noteworthy.
  - cpwright 13y ago
    Why is it uncalled for to publicize the lawsuit if it is frivolous? In general, it may be bad PR; but if you're willing to file a suit that is public. There is no reason to cede the initiative to the plaintiff if you think they are trying to manipulate you.

jfoster 13y ago

I think they are intentionally trying to build a reputation as a company that shouldn't be messed with. It may be saving them from a lot of this type of stuff. Additionally might be protecting them from negative reviews. I see your point about that, but it's also an interesting tactic from a company that knew it will be up against so many barriers.

unreal37 13y ago
This strategy comes right from the top, I think. Elon Musk has always been "over the top" when it comes to defending Tesla from negative publicity. The funny thing about this to me is that they report the trunk was opened immediately before the fuse blew each time. Ha! If you own a Tesla, you should know that they can monitor any action you take with that car. But I don't blame them for this type of post. People attack them, and their defense is overwhelming.

etler 13y ago

I think they're addressing a public complaint. When other companies provide vague responses or simply say "no comment", people complain. Tesla tries very hard to be faultless, apparently to a fault.

philmcc 13y ago

I hope someone writes a book about this one day -- the transition from being the underdog to the dominant player in the field. It seems like a very difficult transition, both for the contestant and the fan. While I understand where you're coming from, it does feel a little bit about being conflicted over the possibility of a company doing something bad in the future.

lugg 13y ago
Early adopters will almost always feel some kind of shafting when a company grows. Early adopters just aren't looking for the same things as the broader public. They can always try to have a less painful transition but I think the adopters need to start to learn how to meet companies half way.
kodeninja 13y ago
The Master Switch, by Tim Wu, comes pretty close: http://www.amazon.com/The-Master-Switch-Information-Empires/dp/0307390993 http://www.amazon.com/The-Master-Switch-Information-Empires/...

mlieberman85 13y ago

I think this approach is a breath of fresh air given the track record of so many other companies that say "no comment." In the end they're protecting their brand. For as long as they can they have to be the company that goes above and beyond when it comes to reliability, safety, customer satisfaction, etc. Otherwise they just end up becoming the next Fisker. It makes sense why they're so militant, especially given the media's often negative attention and how it can kill a small company (compared to the big car companies) like this.

jamesaguilar 13y ago

Telling your side of the story is not "bullying" just because your side of the story is extremely compelling. Not to be too much of a prescriptivist, but it would be good if we reserved bullying for something with at least some remote connection to its original meaning, which is linked to injustice and violence of a verbal or physical form.

irishjohnnie 13y ago

It looks like the Lemon King went public first and Tesla PR is just counter attacking.

IgorPartola 13y ago

I know exactly what you are talking about. They say all the right things but the tone is generally somewhat accusatory. I read the same thing between the lines in the response to the journalist running out of charge doing a long drive. Another example is the interview where Musl called the Prius a lawn mower when asked about electric cars and completely skirted around talking about the Chevy Volt (IMHO the best current plug-in drivetrain.)

iancarroll 13y ago
To be fair what the lawyer is doing is obvious.
- IgorPartola 13y ago
  Absolutely. And Tesla makes a great product. That is why I am surprised by how defensive and passive aggressive their tone seems at times.

melindajb 13y ago

You're prematurely optimizing. Tactics that work at one level of growth, do not work at others. That is why leadership often, but not always, changes. For example, take Microsoft. They were aggressive and bullying early on, because they had to be. Later on, those tactics when they were the dominant OS led to a pretty brutal DOJ situation. For now, though Elon is doing what needs to be done to change the world. I applaud him. He's up against some seriously powerful forces: the oil industry, the automotive industry. This is just like a scrappy app startup going against Microsoft--times 100.

kmt 13y ago

Well, while small, "do things that don't scale". We'll see what they figure out later on.

icelancer 13y ago

Huh? Tesla is simply rebutting every single ridiculous claim with data, over and over again. If that's "bullying" (are we ignoring the fact the consumer FILED A LAWSUIT here?), then Americans have really gotten way too sensitive.

TwistVolt 13y ago

Tesla has a spine, called Musk. It may not be popular to push against sensation seeking lawyers or dealer networks but he does what's right, and in the end, that's all that really matters.

TheMagicHorsey 13y ago

I see. So for a fear of future possible abuse by a future possibly big company, today we should ignore this blatant extortion attempt by a lawyer, in order to sympathize with this "poor, helpless" consumer? This isn't a whiny post. This is exactly how companies should use social media to weed out these parasitic lawyers. Where the fuck is your concern for all these garbage costs that get put on the consumer because of these parasites? You should love this use of social media, because it actually makes our economy and legal system work better.

Shivetya 13y ago
No, they should be using courts of law and not the court of public opinion to solve the case. Once they win the later then they can take it to the former. Honestly what they are doing is in bad taste. You certainly don't go an attack like this. I like Tesla's cars, I certainly don't like paying people to buy them and I really don't like tactics like this. Face it, if Ford or GM tried this stunt people here would be crawling up their ass.
- ntakasaki 13y ago
  Did you see the viral video that the lawyer made? https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UUaelOgVXLe-1a3PUpob3upQ&v=V4ALbVQwRT8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UUaelOgVXLe-1a3PUpob3upQ&... Looks like Tesla is justified in trying to neutralize that slimy attempt at publicity.
  - jabelk 13y ago
    Jesus. As someone on youtube noted, take a close look at around 0:50. You can see lights flash, which seems very likely to have been from someone unlocking the car. Right after, the door handles miraculously start working again. The whole thing reeks.
    - oh_sigh 13y ago
      Does anyone know how teslas behave when you touch their door handles? Do the rear lights ever flash?

phaemon 13y ago

What a wonderful "concern trolling" post. At no point do you actually mention anything that Tesla has done wrong in the slightest, yet you manage to imply that they're the bad guys in this scenario. Thanks for your contribution to human culture.

onetwofiveten 13y ago
Let me paraphrase what is going on here: nemesisj's comment - "Tesla is probably in the right here, but their response to threats tends be heavy handed and defensive." your comment - "Tesla is in the right, you are trolling. Snark." I guess maybe you missed the point that Tesla can be the good guy in a lawsuit and still act in a way that seems unprofessional and worrying to a potential future customer.
- phaemon 13y ago
  Don't paraphrase my posts; you're terrible at it. At no point did I say that Tesla was in the right. I explicitly said that he hadn't mentioned Tesla doing anything wrong.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]

bane 13y ago

I dunno. I feel a similar sense of discomfort. But at the same time, people will do crazy things to get attention, attacking a supremely popular company with an excellent reputation for reliability is not surprising.

cpwright 13y ago

If they don't do things so perfectly or well at scale, and then have a "bad attitude" about it, they will likely turn off customers, lose their stellar reputation, and will have less of a problem at scale. The market will provide an excellent feedback loop.

beedogs 13y ago

Pretty horrible comment, honestly. Seems like a bunch of idle speculation slathered in a good helping of parochialism.