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> Because Cloudflare is possibly the biggest and most vulnerable target due to the enormous number of websites and businesses relying on it. AWS is at least as
by ef4 13y ago
> Because Cloudflare is possibly the biggest and most vulnerable target due to the enormous number of websites and businesses relying on it.
AWS is at least as important, as is Akamai.
My point being, it's not enough to hand-wave about who's the biggest and most important. A good system would give anyone with enough at risk a clear path to earn a seat at the table.
Major providers could create an "early warning disclosure club", each contributing some money annually, and the money can be used to pay bounties to anyone who gives them advance warning of a zero day. Of course you'd want some safeguards to make sure nobody blackhat joins the club to use the vulnerabilities for offense.
- soundsop 13y agoAkamai was notified and completed the patch in advance of public disclosure according to their Heartbleed FAQ: https://blogs.akamai.com/2014/04/heartbleed-faq-akamai-systems-patched.html https://blogs.akamai.com/2014/04/heartbleed-faq-akamai-syste... This raises the question about whether Amazon/AWS was notified prior to public disclosure.
- DerpDerpDerp 13y agoHow do you notify a large-ish group of a secret vuln without notifying any of the bad guys? Because if you notify the bad guys at the same time, then you've made it worse, since people you didn't notify don't know anything is up yet.
- tptacek 13y agoSoftware security used to work this way, in the early 90s. Disclosures went to vendor cabals. They leaked like sieves and were a running joke on #hack. It's hard to argue: yes, the world would be better if only the people who were going to mitigate the bug had the information until everyone had mitigated. But a repeal of the CAP theorem would be nice too. Meanwhile, we have to work with the world we have, not the one we want. Early disclosure club isn't a terrible idea, but good luck getting it funded in a serious way. The correlation between "most impacted" and "most clueful" isn't particularly strong.
- patio11 13y agoIndeed, if one posits a channel for transmitting secrets among a vendor cabal which never leaks to people not authorized to receive the secrets, we should abandon SSL and use that for our secure communication needs instead.
- marcosdumay 13y agoInformation isn't supposed to stay in the Cabal for long. If you want 6 months (or, more typically 5 years) to fix a serious vulnerability, you shouldn't get any kind of useful protection.
- ef4 13y agoIt still obviously does work this way, just very informally. That is, such cabals clearly exist and clearly get early access. If things seem different now, perhaps it's because the timelines are shorter or the cabals more consolidated. As for "most clueful": I have often lamented the current pendulum swing toward a centralized internet. But this is one area where all the centralization of infrastructure has a benefit. An awfully large fraction of the internet's data is in the hands of a small number of relatively tech-clueful organizations. How many of Heroku's or AWS's or Akamai's customers would still be unpatched right now if those customers were managing things themselves? I'd put any of those organizations safely ahead of their median customer in the "clue" department. I'm not going to disagree with your main point though: funding for security is always an uphill battle. When it's working great, nothing happens.