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I know the purpose of this ad is to promote young women to explore engineering, but does anybody else hate the whole "Engineering jobs are growing faster than a

I know the purpose of this ad is to promote young women to explore engineering, but does anybody else hate the whole "Engineering jobs are growing faster than any other industry!" meme? I hate it for a couple reasons. The first reason is that it's a lie. Software Engineering? Sure, it's growing. Electrical Engineering? Maybe. Mechanical Engineering? Hell no. The second reason is that I remember when I was growing up all the hype was "Become an Accountant!! It's growing rapidly!" Now look around at everyone with an accounting degree. Whoops.

melling 13y ago
No, I don't. Maybe you get an undergrad engineering degree then decide you want an MBA or law degree. Don't you think the world would be a little better off if more people spent more time studying math and science? Do you think the second half of the 21st century will require people to know more science and math, or less?
- seanmcdirmid 13y ago
  Depends on when the singularity occurs.
- Jgrubb 13y ago
  This is completely off topic, but I was thinking about this statement just the other day -- "Don't you think the world would be a little better off if more people spent more time studying math and science?" -- in the context of this abominable new educational policy that we have here in the US called the "Common Core Curriculum". I don't understand the Common Core well enough to really come up with policy ideas about it, but the gist of the idea is that our children here in America are not as good at Math and Science as other countries, and that we should be very alarmed by that supposed fact. The response has been to cut back on arts, music programs, physical education in order to spend more time "teaching" kids to get better grades on test about Math and Science. I had this thought, and I wonder if it's controversial. Might it be okay that some kids in other countries are better at math and science than our kids supposedly are here? Is that the only set of skills that America is going to need in the 21st century, to the detriment of pretty much everything else? I don't think so, personally. I think it's more important that kids get a well rounded experience, even if that means lower scores on some tests that couldn't possibly be an accurate measure across global cultures. I'm sorry, I'd have made this shorter but I didn't have the time.
  - dmm 13y ago
    Different states have vastly different curriculums. A third grader from texas moves to california. The math class she's now in may be covering completely different material. It might assumes she has mastered skills she hasn't even seen yet. The common core solves that problem by bringing consistency to what subjects are covered when.
- aswanson 13y ago
  Probably less. The average electrical engineer working during the 60s probably had to have a far better handle on characteristic curves of tubes and transistors, and therefore physics. Hell, the Apollo team hand-calculated the diffeq's of the moon missions! These days, you are far more likely to rely on and write software for machines that involves very little direct knowledge of math and science. As the tools integrate more of human knowledge, I would expect this trend to continue.
bananas 13y ago
Agree. I did electrical engineering at university in the UK. All of my colleagues are either unemployed or doing something completely different. Half our tech team were engineers. They write boring business code, not mangle with fluid dynamics, jet engines or biotech as promised by the marketing for years.
- anoonmoose 13y ago
  Well, while we're tossing out anecdata, the portion of my 2010 graduating electrical/computer engineering class cohort that I am still friends with are all happily employed in jobs that align with our background. As am I. Not saying your experience is wrong or inaccurate, but it's not absolute. We went to a public state university in New England for whatever that's worth.
- darksim905 13y ago
  What do you consider electrical engineering? What did they teach you in class versus what you would use today/not use? Are there jobs out there/do you continue to look & see what's out there in your field or are each of you stuck in your respective roles?
  - bananas 13y ago
    Well anything from embedded systems (even high level java) down to VHDL. What did they teach us in class that is of use today? Very little. We did all the mathematical requirements of programming (which for most are very little) at school. About as close to EE I get these days is fixing stuff and that's something anyone can do. Do I look? - not after 15 years. Do I long? - of course.
buyx 13y ago
"Become an Accountant!! It's growing rapidly!" Now look around at everyone with an accounting degree. Whoops. This is interesting. In South Africa Chartered Accountants are in huge demand. "Good at maths? Become an accountant" is fairly common(!). They dominate the corporate world, have a powerful lobby, earn huge salaries, and many mathy kids aspire to accounting. I knew that South African business had an accounting fetish, but I am surprised that accounting took a knock where you are. Would you mind elaborating?
FD3SA 13y ago
Exactly. Here's some data to support your assertion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7512799 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7512799
thearn4 13y ago
This is a very good point. I think it's great to encourage students to take up challenging technical career paths like engineering, physical science, math, etc. But getting into field because it's currently perceived that it's where the money is like hitting a moving target. By the time one is finished with their degree, who knows what the job market will look like. Scary thing is, I don't really have any alternative advice to offer, other than "stay as flexible as possible".
- josephschmoe 13y ago
  Find a career in a growing field. Though, I took your advice. Physics is extremely flexible but not very useful on its own.
  - thearn4 13y ago
    Same. My background is mathematics, but I made sure to pick up some EE and software development skills along the way.
dllthomas 13y ago
I'm not sure you know what an ME degree entails.
- rubiquity 13y ago
  Fantastic comment. Please enlighten me, since it was too hard for you to do that in the first place. Also let me know why I need to know the nuts and bolts of an ME degree to understand that far more people are getting pushed into ME than people that are actually getting jobs in ME.
  - dllthomas 13y ago
    "Please enlighten me, since it was too hard for you to do that in the first place." I don't have one, and I haven't looked closely, but I do have several friends who are ME grads and from what I understand it can cover a lot of control theory and machine learning stuff that winds up being applicable all over the place (there's currently a lot of demand for ME grads in finance, robotics is a possible growth area that uses a whole ton of things from ME, &c). "Also let me know why I need to know the nuts and bolts of an ME degree to understand that far more people are getting pushed into ME than people that are actually getting jobs in ME." Because "what the degree covers" is tremendously relevant to whether there will be growth in demand for people with that degree, which is the entire question here. I think software supply is more likely to outstrip software demand than ME supply to outstrip ME demand, though not with high confidence (the future is always uncertain).

melling 13y ago

No, I don't. Maybe you get an undergrad engineering degree then decide you want an MBA or law degree. Don't you think the world would be a little better off if more people spent more time studying math and science? Do you think the second half of the 21st century will require people to know more science and math, or less?

seanmcdirmid 13y ago
Depends on when the singularity occurs.
Jgrubb 13y ago
This is completely off topic, but I was thinking about this statement just the other day -- "Don't you think the world would be a little better off if more people spent more time studying math and science?" -- in the context of this abominable new educational policy that we have here in the US called the "Common Core Curriculum". I don't understand the Common Core well enough to really come up with policy ideas about it, but the gist of the idea is that our children here in America are not as good at Math and Science as other countries, and that we should be very alarmed by that supposed fact. The response has been to cut back on arts, music programs, physical education in order to spend more time "teaching" kids to get better grades on test about Math and Science. I had this thought, and I wonder if it's controversial. Might it be okay that some kids in other countries are better at math and science than our kids supposedly are here? Is that the only set of skills that America is going to need in the 21st century, to the detriment of pretty much everything else? I don't think so, personally. I think it's more important that kids get a well rounded experience, even if that means lower scores on some tests that couldn't possibly be an accurate measure across global cultures. I'm sorry, I'd have made this shorter but I didn't have the time.
- dmm 13y ago
  Different states have vastly different curriculums. A third grader from texas moves to california. The math class she's now in may be covering completely different material. It might assumes she has mastered skills she hasn't even seen yet. The common core solves that problem by bringing consistency to what subjects are covered when.
aswanson 13y ago
Probably less. The average electrical engineer working during the 60s probably had to have a far better handle on characteristic curves of tubes and transistors, and therefore physics. Hell, the Apollo team hand-calculated the diffeq's of the moon missions! These days, you are far more likely to rely on and write software for machines that involves very little direct knowledge of math and science. As the tools integrate more of human knowledge, I would expect this trend to continue.

bananas 13y ago

Agree. I did electrical engineering at university in the UK. All of my colleagues are either unemployed or doing something completely different. Half our tech team were engineers. They write boring business code, not mangle with fluid dynamics, jet engines or biotech as promised by the marketing for years.

anoonmoose 13y ago
Well, while we're tossing out anecdata, the portion of my 2010 graduating electrical/computer engineering class cohort that I am still friends with are all happily employed in jobs that align with our background. As am I. Not saying your experience is wrong or inaccurate, but it's not absolute. We went to a public state university in New England for whatever that's worth.
darksim905 13y ago
What do you consider electrical engineering? What did they teach you in class versus what you would use today/not use? Are there jobs out there/do you continue to look & see what's out there in your field or are each of you stuck in your respective roles?
- bananas 13y ago
  Well anything from embedded systems (even high level java) down to VHDL. What did they teach us in class that is of use today? Very little. We did all the mathematical requirements of programming (which for most are very little) at school. About as close to EE I get these days is fixing stuff and that's something anyone can do. Do I look? - not after 15 years. Do I long? - of course.

buyx 13y ago

"Become an Accountant!! It's growing rapidly!" Now look around at everyone with an accounting degree. Whoops. This is interesting. In South Africa Chartered Accountants are in huge demand. "Good at maths? Become an accountant" is fairly common(!). They dominate the corporate world, have a powerful lobby, earn huge salaries, and many mathy kids aspire to accounting. I knew that South African business had an accounting fetish, but I am surprised that accounting took a knock where you are. Would you mind elaborating?

FD3SA 13y ago

Exactly. Here's some data to support your assertion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7512799 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7512799

thearn4 13y ago

This is a very good point. I think it's great to encourage students to take up challenging technical career paths like engineering, physical science, math, etc. But getting into field because it's currently perceived that it's where the money is like hitting a moving target. By the time one is finished with their degree, who knows what the job market will look like. Scary thing is, I don't really have any alternative advice to offer, other than "stay as flexible as possible".

josephschmoe 13y ago
Find a career in a growing field. Though, I took your advice. Physics is extremely flexible but not very useful on its own.
- thearn4 13y ago
  Same. My background is mathematics, but I made sure to pick up some EE and software development skills along the way.

dllthomas 13y ago

I'm not sure you know what an ME degree entails.

rubiquity 13y ago
Fantastic comment. Please enlighten me, since it was too hard for you to do that in the first place. Also let me know why I need to know the nuts and bolts of an ME degree to understand that far more people are getting pushed into ME than people that are actually getting jobs in ME.
- dllthomas 13y ago
  "Please enlighten me, since it was too hard for you to do that in the first place." I don't have one, and I haven't looked closely, but I do have several friends who are ME grads and from what I understand it can cover a lot of control theory and machine learning stuff that winds up being applicable all over the place (there's currently a lot of demand for ME grads in finance, robotics is a possible growth area that uses a whole ton of things from ME, &c). "Also let me know why I need to know the nuts and bolts of an ME degree to understand that far more people are getting pushed into ME than people that are actually getting jobs in ME." Because "what the degree covers" is tremendously relevant to whether there will be growth in demand for people with that degree, which is the entire question here. I think software supply is more likely to outstrip software demand than ME supply to outstrip ME demand, though not with high confidence (the future is always uncertain).