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There are beliefs in this world that you cannot publicly hold and still expect to be taken seriously. If Eich were arguing against interracial marriage there wo

by ucarion 13y ago

There are beliefs in this world that you cannot publicly hold and still expect to be taken seriously. If Eich were arguing against interracial marriage there would be very little debate about this issue; believing that humans cannot marry between races is not a belief modern society continues to respect. I think this controversy is an indication that -- to the tech community at least -- believing that discrimination based on sexual orientation is one of those illegitimate beliefs.

ralfd 13y ago
But Eich isn't arguing or advocating anything. All he made was to donate to a popular proposition, I mean, it did found the majority of the electorate (then). In all other comments I read from him, he says his private politic views are a private matter and I agree with him there. I also think donations of this rather small size ($1000) should not needed to be publicly disclosed.
- shinratdr 13y ago
  What does it being popular have to do with anything? Popular bigotry is still bigotry. A donation in support of that bigotry is tantamount to bigotry. Finally, personal political views absolutely enter in to public debate when the views are held by a public figurehead that is in place to represent the ideals of an organization. This is how you change public opinion, by making it dangerous to hold these views and still be supported or taken seriously. People didn't just suddenly decide not to be racist. It took endless shaming of the people that hold those views until those views are no longer the norm, then the next generation grows up in an environment where that kind of bigotry is considered reprehensible and instead of just hiding their bigotry due to shame, they actually find it reprehensible. This is social change in action. Personal views aren't sacrosanct, and simply believing in something and having the right to say it doesn't entitle you to be tolerated or respected by those who hear it. Free speech isn't a license to say or do whatever the fuck you want without consequence. It simply protects you from government censorship or physical violence.
  - ralfd 13y ago
    Oxford defines bigotry as "Intolerance towards those who hold different opinions from oneself". Which is exactly what is done to Eich, just by bigots from the other side.
    - shinratdr 13y ago
      Yep, I'm also bigoted against racists. The "you're bigoted against bigots" argument is as old as dirt, uncreative, and childish. Pretty much the "I know you are but what am I" playground argument tactic.

by ucarion 13y ago

ralfd 13y ago

But Eich isn't arguing or advocating anything. All he made was to donate to a popular proposition, I mean, it did found the majority of the electorate (then). In all other comments I read from him, he says his private politic views are a private matter and I agree with him there. I also think donations of this rather small size ($1000) should not needed to be publicly disclosed.

shinratdr 13y ago
What does it being popular have to do with anything? Popular bigotry is still bigotry. A donation in support of that bigotry is tantamount to bigotry. Finally, personal political views absolutely enter in to public debate when the views are held by a public figurehead that is in place to represent the ideals of an organization. This is how you change public opinion, by making it dangerous to hold these views and still be supported or taken seriously. People didn't just suddenly decide not to be racist. It took endless shaming of the people that hold those views until those views are no longer the norm, then the next generation grows up in an environment where that kind of bigotry is considered reprehensible and instead of just hiding their bigotry due to shame, they actually find it reprehensible. This is social change in action. Personal views aren't sacrosanct, and simply believing in something and having the right to say it doesn't entitle you to be tolerated or respected by those who hear it. Free speech isn't a license to say or do whatever the fuck you want without consequence. It simply protects you from government censorship or physical violence.
- ralfd 13y ago
  Oxford defines bigotry as "Intolerance towards those who hold different opinions from oneself". Which is exactly what is done to Eich, just by bigots from the other side.
  - shinratdr 13y ago
    Yep, I'm also bigoted against racists. The "you're bigoted against bigots" argument is as old as dirt, uncreative, and childish. Pretty much the "I know you are but what am I" playground argument tactic.