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US Secretly Built 'Cuban Twitter' To Stir Unrest
- biesnecker 13y agoThis is such a bizarre story. It doesn't even seem like it was "the US" as much as it was an overeager and undersupervised team within USAID. It's sad, too, because USAID does good work in a lot of places around the world, and that works is undermined if (rightly or wrongly; seemingly rightly in this case) host governments think that USAID is an arm of the US intelligence community.
- aylons 13y agoI never heard of a work of USAID that does not involve US trying to enforce his vision of politics in the country. Could you please illuminate me?
- gadders 13y agoYeah, all that crazy freedom and democracy.
- why-el 13y agoCan't work out whether you are being sarcastic or not, but the notion of a free country exporting freedom and democracy is a novel one. A quick survey of history will tell you that a country A being democratic does not necessarily mean it will support countries to follow suit. Think England back in the late 1800s: Very liberal by anyone's standards at that time, but follows horrendous policies overseas.
- gadders 13y agoI agree it may be a modern idea, but I don't think you can really judge current policies on those of countries from 200 years ago.
- zimbatm 13y agoYeah, let's force freedom and democracy down people's throat. It didn't work so well in Irak but I'm sure the next one is going to be a success ! Everyone who doesn't think like us is wrong and needs to be set on the right path anyways.
- bcks 13y agoFor better or worse, U.S. foreign aid and assistance are instruments of U.S. foreign policy. Just look at the list of countries and how much they receive. It's not exactly correlated to the amount of poverty and hunger among recipient countries.
- biesnecker 13y ago"instrument of US foreign policy" != "arm of the US intelligence services"
- meric 13y agoHere's how I see it. As the government of the US relies on information mostly from US intelligence services when figuring out foreign policy, US intelligence services have a large influence on US foreign policy, and by extension it also has a substantial influence on the instruments used to implement such a policy.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- bitsteak 13y agoWhat in this article associates USAID with the intel community? The fact that they both use technology?
- ipsin 13y agoNothing in the article, but they have had a close association in the past. For example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Public_Safety http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Public_Safety
- barry-cotter 13y agoUSAID is an arm of the US intelligence community. Every US embassy has a CIA Chief of Station. That most USAID employees and cobtractors are sincere and not officially or knowingly spies does not mean that they can really be trusted. They're agents of a foreign power and they're in your country to further its hegemony. Remember how they found bin Laden? If they'll use a vaccination programme as a front to spy they're not going to take the "independence" or "mission" of USAID seriously.
- not_paul_graham 13y agoThis almost sounds like something that someone would make up. Why the hell would the US Govt. want so much unrest all over the world? Haven't they learned from their screw ups in the past [0]? US supported Egyptian army is doing god knows what in Egypt; the US has been involved in the two biggest wars in recent memory (Iraq, Afghanistan), and in not-so-covert operations in countries like Pakistan, Syria and the like. Seriously what is this obsession with unrest and wars. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'%C3%A9tat#U.S._role http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'%C3%A9tat#U...
- jdimov 13y agoThis is a direct result of their (continued) fuck-ups. No one will ever be able to look favourably upon the USG again. This is quickly leading to the country's demise as a perceived 'world power'. Unfortunately, military might is next to useless in restoring reputation.
- happyscrappy 13y ago>This is quickly leading to the country's demise as a perceived 'world power'. Oh really, is there even a single metric supporting your wishful thinking. Those hoping for the demise of the US are going to be in for a few disappointing decades, probably more.
- jere 13y agoEnemy? Spy on them. Ally? Spy on them. Communist regime? Overthrow it. Democratic government? Overthrow it. So proud to be an American.
- myth_drannon 13y agoStrong governments are an obstacle to corporate ambitions of taking over the resources of the country.
- choonkeymoonkey 13y agoBecause those strong governments surely don't mean to exploit the resources of the country to buy themselves gold plated private jets...
- danso 13y agoI've been wondering when a government sponsored excursion into twitter astroturfing would come up...it is trivially easy to build a network of fake accounts and to have them followed by hundreds of thousands of fake accounts. As follower count is the main way that people seem to validate accounts, and Twitter has little incentive to stop puffed up accounts, how hard would it be during a revolt to fake something atrocious from the revolters' side and have it endlessly retweeted before anyone realized what happened? And that's just a brazen op...more subtle, patient intel ops could be even more pervasive. There really aren't many tools to quickly validate accounts by sight, though showing account age would be at least one metric that is harder to fake
- Zigurd 13y ago> it is trivially easy to build a network of fake accounts And that's available as an off-the-shelf product of defense/intelligence contractors: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ntrepid http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ntrepid
- xenophonf 13y agoI am so disappointed. The kinds of outreach and charity provided by USAID isn't perfect, but the intent behind it was always good. Heck, if anything I'm really, really proud of the humanitarian work the U.S. government does, including USAID at State and NIH and CDC at HHS. Overthrowing governments is completely at odds with humanitarian missions, never mind the fact that the outcomes (especially in the Americas) for covert U.S. interventions in foreign governments are _not_ generally positive.
- morgante 13y ago> Overthrowing governments is completely at odds with humanitarian missions Is it? Oppressive regimes can pose a direct threat to human well-being and sometimes the best thing you can do for people's humanity is to overthrough said regime.
- moo 13y agoWhen are we going after the house of Saud?
- morgante 13y ago> When are we going after the house of Saud? There's actually been increased isolation from Saudi Arabia over the past year.
- moo 13y agoHuman well-being, along with literacy, are Cuba's strong suit. They send doctors all over the world, such as during environmental disasters. During the 2010 Haiti earthquake, the U.S. sent troops, weird. But I guess the Haitians are free to eat mud cakes. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/jul/29/food.internationalaidanddevelopment http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/jul/29/food.internatio...
- morgante 13y agoThere's more to well-being than being nominally healthy and literate. Cuba might have great doctors, but they're not much use to political prisoners. Cubans might be literate, but they can't read whatever they want. [1] 1: https://www.hrw.org/americas/cuba https://www.hrw.org/americas/cuba
- iamthepieman 13y agoI'm really curious about this paragraph: "...launched shortly after the 2009 arrest in Cuba of American contractor Alan Gross. He was imprisoned after traveling repeatedly to the country on a separate, clandestine USAID mission to expand Internet access using sensitive technology that only governments use." expand internet access with technology only governments use? Is this just some shoddy reporting from a writer who doesn't understand technology or something else?
- sehugg 13y agoAllegedly he was carrying technology that made satellite phone calls hard to geolocate: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Phillip_Gross#Background https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Phillip_Gross#Background
- matthewsimon 13y agoYou could read this as a cautionary tale about the difficulty in launching a social networking service: Even with $1.6 million cash (earmarked for a development project in Pakistan) and 500,000 mobile phone subscriber records (stolen from the incumbent telecom), their free service couldn't reach 5% market penetration and was shut down when it ran out of money.
- ianhawes 13y agoThere was simply no way to monetize the service.
- aurumpotest 13y agoBut it said in the article that they decided to keep penetration under 1% of the population so as not to arouse suspicion. Plus, they had a lot more limitations than your average Silicon Valley startup. (edit: second point)
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- work_account_2 13y agoFelt you needed to use a throwaway for that?
- mcintyre1994 13y agoThat account seems to be a throwaway only in name. :)
- dethstar 13y agoStop pretending to be the police of the world. Also, is not like the imperialists have stuck their nose to HELP totalitarian states. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_intervention_in_Chile#Pinochet_regime https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_intervention_in_...
- nraynaud 13y ago'reminds me of Chile, they had a precursor of the internet for communication to the Capital. Then the CIA had this barbecue party on the 10th of September 1973 in Viña Del Mar. And on the 11th, the country got freed, people were rounded in the soccer stadium in Santiago for a big freedom party. 'never heard again of this network and of 38000 people either for that matter. But the Chileans got 17 years of imperialist-supported freedom (3200 confirmed deaths). That's what's important. Saudis also are very happy for this democracy that the US big brother brought to them, same for Turkey, Pakistan. Let's stop being ironic and talk about countries who actually have had free elections since an actual open US intervention: Afghanistan and Iraq. But life expectancy there predict that you probably won't survive to the next poll anyways.
- morgante 13y agoI'm sure this will bring me lots of downvotes, but I actually applaud these tactics. Helping people in oppressive regimes to communicate freely with each other is one of the more humanitarian actions the US can take, and this sort of connectivity is critical in allowing people a degree of freedom even under totalitarian governments. Truly repressive regimes are out there, and without foreign interference and investment people might not have any access to dissenting views. As an example, look at the recent article from HN about Romania's brutal dictatorship.[1] VoA helped to play a major role by inspiring hope and providing alternative viewpoints within an oppressive system. Efforts like this (bringing internet connectivity and alternative service to oppressive regimes which filter internet access) are the VoA of our times. [1] http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26838177 http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26838177
- letrerrr 13y agoSigh.
- jbooth 13y agoWell, the US has a pretty checkered history regarding Cuba if you're going to talk about altruism. I'd say we've done more to inadvertantly prop up that regime than to undermine it. There are 3 nominally communist countries left in the world, from a high of dozens -- Cuba's one of them, and probably the closest to actually being communist (China and North Korea being technocratic-capitalist and pharaonic, respectively).
- morgante 13y agoAgreed. I definitely don't think we've always had the best policies on Cuba, and also am not entirely convinced Cuba is itself the best target of this sort of effort. But regardless I think the tactics themselves are commendable. Speech, not guns.
- BgSpnnrs 13y agoI think a more commendable tactic would be to not stick their oar into sovereign state's business with a mind to ruin their systems of government. I suppose not killing people is commendable, but it is pretty low bar for moral behaviour.
- puppetmaster3 13y agoHow long has USA tried to destabilize a neighbor. And look at Canada, one of their favorite vacation spots. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Ron_Paul#Non-intervention http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Ron_Paul...
- jusben1369 13y agoI see a bad comedy where they pitch this to "secret VC's" and talk about how Cuba is simply the "beach head" with plans to expand into Venezuela next. They're raising now due to an opportunity to take huge share from Twitter in Turkey and Egypt. (where they've gone viral despite only being in Spanish)
- zrail 13y agoYeah, this could be a bad 10 minute SNL sketch or an amazingly awesome 15 minute "Whitest Kids You Know" sketch.
- CrazedGeek 13y agoI think it could just be a copy/paste of this WKUK sketch in particular: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAjrbtzr_NA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAjrbtzr_NA
- andyl 13y agoThe US Government strikes yet another blow to undermine the credibility and trustworthiness of American Internet Industry. Mission Accomplished.
- pearjuice 13y agoLittle less than a week ago I commented: "It is no secret that the protests and revolutions in Syria, Egypt, Tunis and the like were caused by internal fabrications from American soil so they could use the uproar for settling marionettes and proper satellite states instead of having to deal with nations which are against America and [its allies]."[0] I got down voted into oblivion but I didn't really care. I knew I was right. Hopefully all of you will realize this too, now. You really thought this is a new tactic? One case like this? Never done before? A "social experiment"? [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7481111 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7481111
- tremols 13y agoThis just sounds like Castro-Chavista propaganda and its worrying that americans and europeans are starting to buy this crap. The idea that US government fights against communism and extreme islam is just an old lie kept alive by both left & right parties and there is enough evidence of the contrary (ie Allies surrendering eastern europe to the URSS, US backing up Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein, supporting the coup against the Persian Shah and Al Qaeda). So the truth is that communism and extreme islam are psycho-social ideological weapons designed to bring countries down - not much different than how opium was used as a weapon by the brittish. Then Bankers, the weaponry industry, international insurance companies, and transnationals among other birds of prey enjoy doing juicy billionary businesses with the talibanized governments anywhere be it africa or latin america.
- DominikR 13y agoThat's the reason why countries like Russia and China make it so hard for NGOs to work within their borders. I can't blame them for that, why should they allow foreign governments to stir up protests in their countries? Is anyone better off in Libya, Syria or Egypt after the so called "Arab Spring" destabilized these countries?
- blacksmith_tb 13y agoThe answer there may be "not yet". But Tunisia is an example of a positive outcome.
- DominikR 13y ago> The answer there may be "not yet" With that argument you could justify almost anything. Just ask yourself if you'd tolerate a coup in the US initiated by China that leads to a civil war which lasts 10 years (basically what people are experiencing in Afghanistan) and kills millions to install a type of government that China feels is better and more humane than capitalism. That's basically what the US is doing to other countries on a regular basis.
- bowlofpetunias 13y agoIt never seizes to amaze me that while the US treats Cuba as a hostile nation it is in conflict with, the rest of the Western world considers Cuba a holiday destination.
- cromwellian 13y agoI wondering if this story was about North Korea and parachuting in communication devices and foreign media, if the condemnation would be equal.
- terio 13y agoOh, the naiveté! I doubt anybody in their right mind and with enough information about Cuba could actually think that the Cuban government could be subverted by a social network. The government controls all communication in Cuba and they listen to it ... all the time! The minute something smells a little anti-government, it gets shut down immediately and people go to prison and are made an example on national TV. It really does not matter where the money came from to create this network. At the end the Cuban government controlled it and there was no way it could be used for subversion. I really doubt that was the original intention of the project. The other interesting point is this: "... the 2009 arrest in Cuba of American contractor Alan Gross. He was imprisoned after traveling repeatedly to the country on a separate, clandestine USAID mission to expand Internet access using sensitive technology that only governments use." This is a disguised exaggeration. The equipment Alan Gross brought to Cuba was completely normal (radios, blackberries, routers, etc) with the only alleged exception of some protection against geo-location for satellite phones. I have to suspect the article for its bias towards Cuban propaganda.