4 ms·

No it's rock solid underneath. The TCP stack hasn't been a 32-bit driver since XP. NTFS has been modernised already: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReFS http://

by bananas 13y ago

No it's rock solid underneath. The TCP stack hasn't been a 32-bit driver since XP. NTFS has been modernised already: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReFS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReFS The registry is fine - it's people pissing around in it that break it. Win32 - haven't touched it for years. Driver model: not my problem. Mavericks is a crime compared to windows 8.1. I use both, regularly. It's virtually impossible to use efficiently with a keyboard unless you have twisted mutilated hands to hit meta keys galore and half the apps don't actually survive more than 2 minutes without crashing.

taiki 13y ago
I should've been way more clear about my gripe with the Windows TCP/IP stack. Why the hell does the TCP/IP stack eat itself? No other OS I've ever used has the nuttiness that is netsh winsock reset as a regular troubleshooting step when diagnosing network connectivity issues. I was long under the impression that the reason why that kept happening was that the NT kernel didn't have a robust TCP/IP stack of its own and was reimplementing the BSD sockets via a translation layer that was easily hooked into by godawful apps that felt like putting whatever it wanted there. ReFS wasn't on my radar, and that's my fault. The registry isn't fine. As of Windows 8 it can still hose a machine by going corrupt. The concept of having a centralized application database for application state and other metadata isn't a bad one, the current implementation absolutely sucks. It goes corrupt and the entire machine is rendered useless. Granted, the current solution is to just back it up and hope none of the backups corrupt either. Corruption doesn't happen from just people manually messing with it, corruption happens from a lot of apps reading and writing from it at the same time. A lot of apps not even bothering with good practices in how to handle it either. As far as Win32 and the driver model not being your problem... When crappy apps written in 20 year old APIs and devices using crappy drivers crash your machine, then it absolutely IS your problem. I can't speak to your use of OSX with a keyboard. However, given my choices, I'll take weird metakey combos over, "Is my TCP/IP stack going to eat itself this week?" Besides, emacs uses nothing but crappy and bizarre meta key combos and it's still a thing. So.
- nbevans 13y ago
  None of the "problems" of which you speak are actually mainstream problems. It's perfectly possible to hose your network stack in any OS. Just don't do that and you'll be fine. USB drivers, sound drivers, printer drivers, web cam drivers, etc etc, are all using user-mode drivers since Vista. They cannot crash your system. Similarly, graphics card drivers use a special model that means they can auto-restart if they were to crash; which as it happens is exceptionally rare and often resolved by upgrading the driver. I've used Windows ever since it first got a Registry (95) and it's never corrupted on me, ever. I lol'd at the "or improving the driver model?", as though there is ANY mainstream OS out there with a better more flexible and stable driver model than Windows has today. You've basically dug up a load of non-issues, fictional issues and historical issues and portrayed them as relevant issues in the world of Windows today. They aren't.
  - pjc50 13y ago
    hose your network stack in any OS No, this is very very rare on things that aren't Windows. Lots of people say "registry corruption" when they mean "cruft"; over time apps register shell extensions and various other systemwide bits and pieces that gradually reduce UI responsiveness or break in strange ways.
    - nbevans 13y ago
      It's rare on Windows too. Only on Hacker News, on this thread, does it appear to be an issue.
      - taiki 13y ago
        https://www.google.com/#q=winsock+reset https://www.google.com/#q=winsock+reset No, it's not as rare as you think. Yes, it's because of the lousy design of the TCP/IP stack in windows.
        nbevans 13y ago
        Yes it is. No it isn't. Yes it is. No it isn't. Repetitive much? There's nothing wrong with the network stack in Windows. NT has always had a first class network stack and they keep improving it with every release, as is normal for any modern mainstream OS. PS: That Google link I assume was provided for humour rather than any real substance. Two can play at that game: https://www.google.co.uk/?q=osx+network+reset https://www.google.co.uk/?q=osx+network+reset https://www.google.co.uk/?q=linux+network+reset+defaults https://www.google.co.uk/?q=linux+network+reset+defaults
scott_karana 13y ago
Not to take away from your other excellent points, but ReFS is not exactly a modernization of NTFS, since it additionally removes quite a few features.[1] The lack of disk quotas, deduplication, and named streams (and more) mean that it's not exactly a general-purpose filesystem, at least as far as standard Windows Domain deployments are concerned. I suspect they'll address all of these issues eventually, and look forward to it, but as it stands you unfortunately can't just format everything as ReFS instead of NTFS and expect that everything will work. Unlike with ZFS. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReFS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReFS
tomwilson 13y ago
All these points are fine but theres no reason to flat out lie about the quality of Mavericks.... 1) Keyboard shortcuts are fine, if u use a OSX all day every day you will think Windows shortcuts are bad. That and you can edit pretty much every single shortcut in OSX if you are really that offended by them. 2) If your apps are crashing every 2mins (or even more than once a week...) your computer is f'd.
- bananas 13y ago
  No they're horrible, inconsistent between apps and put emacs to shame. It is fecked. Its a 2011 MBP with NVidia graphics. Total waste of money that was. Totally unreliable machine.

by bananas 13y ago

taiki 13y ago

I should've been way more clear about my gripe with the Windows TCP/IP stack. Why the hell does the TCP/IP stack eat itself? No other OS I've ever used has the nuttiness that is netsh winsock reset as a regular troubleshooting step when diagnosing network connectivity issues. I was long under the impression that the reason why that kept happening was that the NT kernel didn't have a robust TCP/IP stack of its own and was reimplementing the BSD sockets via a translation layer that was easily hooked into by godawful apps that felt like putting whatever it wanted there. ReFS wasn't on my radar, and that's my fault. The registry isn't fine. As of Windows 8 it can still hose a machine by going corrupt. The concept of having a centralized application database for application state and other metadata isn't a bad one, the current implementation absolutely sucks. It goes corrupt and the entire machine is rendered useless. Granted, the current solution is to just back it up and hope none of the backups corrupt either. Corruption doesn't happen from just people manually messing with it, corruption happens from a lot of apps reading and writing from it at the same time. A lot of apps not even bothering with good practices in how to handle it either. As far as Win32 and the driver model not being your problem... When crappy apps written in 20 year old APIs and devices using crappy drivers crash your machine, then it absolutely IS your problem. I can't speak to your use of OSX with a keyboard. However, given my choices, I'll take weird metakey combos over, "Is my TCP/IP stack going to eat itself this week?" Besides, emacs uses nothing but crappy and bizarre meta key combos and it's still a thing. So.

nbevans 13y ago
None of the "problems" of which you speak are actually mainstream problems. It's perfectly possible to hose your network stack in any OS. Just don't do that and you'll be fine. USB drivers, sound drivers, printer drivers, web cam drivers, etc etc, are all using user-mode drivers since Vista. They cannot crash your system. Similarly, graphics card drivers use a special model that means they can auto-restart if they were to crash; which as it happens is exceptionally rare and often resolved by upgrading the driver. I've used Windows ever since it first got a Registry (95) and it's never corrupted on me, ever. I lol'd at the "or improving the driver model?", as though there is ANY mainstream OS out there with a better more flexible and stable driver model than Windows has today. You've basically dug up a load of non-issues, fictional issues and historical issues and portrayed them as relevant issues in the world of Windows today. They aren't.
- pjc50 13y ago
  hose your network stack in any OS No, this is very very rare on things that aren't Windows. Lots of people say "registry corruption" when they mean "cruft"; over time apps register shell extensions and various other systemwide bits and pieces that gradually reduce UI responsiveness or break in strange ways.
  - nbevans 13y ago
    It's rare on Windows too. Only on Hacker News, on this thread, does it appear to be an issue.
    - taiki 13y ago
      https://www.google.com/#q=winsock+reset https://www.google.com/#q=winsock+reset No, it's not as rare as you think. Yes, it's because of the lousy design of the TCP/IP stack in windows.
      - nbevans 13y ago
        Yes it is. No it isn't. Yes it is. No it isn't. Repetitive much? There's nothing wrong with the network stack in Windows. NT has always had a first class network stack and they keep improving it with every release, as is normal for any modern mainstream OS. PS: That Google link I assume was provided for humour rather than any real substance. Two can play at that game: https://www.google.co.uk/?q=osx+network+reset https://www.google.co.uk/?q=osx+network+reset https://www.google.co.uk/?q=linux+network+reset+defaults https://www.google.co.uk/?q=linux+network+reset+defaults

scott_karana 13y ago

Not to take away from your other excellent points, but ReFS is not exactly a modernization of NTFS, since it additionally removes quite a few features.[1] The lack of disk quotas, deduplication, and named streams (and more) mean that it's not exactly a general-purpose filesystem, at least as far as standard Windows Domain deployments are concerned. I suspect they'll address all of these issues eventually, and look forward to it, but as it stands you unfortunately can't just format everything as ReFS instead of NTFS and expect that everything will work. Unlike with ZFS. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReFS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReFS

tomwilson 13y ago

All these points are fine but theres no reason to flat out lie about the quality of Mavericks.... 1) Keyboard shortcuts are fine, if u use a OSX all day every day you will think Windows shortcuts are bad. That and you can edit pretty much every single shortcut in OSX if you are really that offended by them. 2) If your apps are crashing every 2mins (or even more than once a week...) your computer is f'd.

bananas 13y ago
No they're horrible, inconsistent between apps and put emacs to shame. It is fecked. Its a 2011 MBP with NVidia graphics. Total waste of money that was. Totally unreliable machine.