6 ms·

The problem isn't the start menu. A fullscreen searchable start menu is something people have likely gotten used to - except for a vocal minority. The problem

The problem isn't the start menu. A fullscreen searchable start menu is something people have likely gotten used to - except for a vocal minority. The problem is the context switching. Some apps full screen (even when they don't make sense or I want them part screen). Some control panel stuff in 'apps' (which requires full screen); some still in the old control panel. Some in both. Somewhere along the way someone started thinking the whole 'single task at a time [or at most two]' was a Good Thing - but then someone else said that we can't do that, and what we got was the ugly bastard child of both. I've stopped booting Windows, haven't done so even for gaming in a couple of months now. It's just too annoying at 8.x. edit: before someone calls me on it, why no I did not read the article - I've since gone back and done so, and it sounds like they'll be offering windowed mode for metro apps as well. So I take it back, this has the potential to make it far less annoying (if they consistently make it available for all metro apps).

DerpDerpDerp 13y ago
I mostly agree with your opinion about why Windows 8 was bad. A full screen, searchable start menu isn't the worst thing - though it does mean I can't be read a webpage while looking for something (which is a slight loss on usability). This is just a special case of your point about only being able to do one (or two) things at a time, when on a desktop, I really want to be able to 4 or 5. It seems like an interface designed for a tablet stapled (badly) to a completely different interface. Another problem is that they spread settings across 2 or 3 different places, hid things like shut down commands (because, you know, I'm never going to be shutting down my desktop!), and generally broke any consistency/sensibility to how the controls interface with the system.
- jimmaswell 13y ago
  I end up dragging things onto/onto items on to open with/off the start menu enough that that was a major annoyance having it take up the whole screen.
- bunderbunder 13y ago
  > A full screen, searchable start menu isn't the worst thing No, but it's a symptom of the worst thing. The worst thing is that Microsoft's UX team failed to realize that "The user's actually only interacting with this one thing right now" does not necessarily imply "This one thing is the only thing that deserves to even be visible right now."
jobu 13y ago
It seems like the thinking at Microsoft has been that "Windows should be the same on every platform" That's why they had a terrible desktop-like experience in the mobile WinCE, and a terrible mobile-like experience in desktop Windows 8. (There were also rumors a while back that Ballmer wanted to put a Windows interface on the Xbox.) Mobile and Desktop are very different use cases, and it seems like Microsoft is finally understanding that.
ape4 13y ago
Yes, if I am using a word processor and want to pull up the calculator I don't want to lose sight of the document I am working on. Its nice that the old start menu didn't hide everything. Then when I get the calculator I want to see the number from my document -- don't want it taking up my entire 25 inch screen.
- bananas 13y ago
  This. I did a comparison photo (I can't find it any more) with my HP50g help up next to the Windows 8.1 calendar on my 27" display. Embarrassingly bad.
- stinky613 13y ago
  I think if Microsoft made more of an effort to encourage users to filter the start screen by typing then this would all be less of a sticking point for people. If I have a word processor open and I want to use the calculator I press the windows key and hit c-a-l-c-<enter>. The calculator is up on the screen alongside the word processor and the desktop has been obscured for less than a second.
  - dllthomas 13y ago
    Right. Winding up in front of a modern Windows computer for the first time, I was pleased to learn they'd moved things much closer to my workflow in ratpoison on Linux.
Pxtl 13y ago
Yeah, the "windowed metro apps" thing is way more interesting than the start-menu. I stubbornly insist that the idea behind a unified tablet and desktop OS is sound, it's just that windows 8 screwed the implementation with its Classic/Metro schizophrenia instead of focusing on the nature of the user's screen real-estate instead of the nature of the applications. On a desktop I have space, so use my space for an always-visible taskbar and windowed apps. On at tablet I don't have space, so make the apps always-maximized and auto-hide the taskbar. But that doesn't mean unifying the OS was a bad thing - I'd want that auto-hide always-fullscreen tablet-oriented OS on an 11" ultrabook, even if it was the "desktop" form of the OS. And likewise, give me windowing on some kind of monstrous 23" tablet thing.
- lugg 13y ago
  It sounds ugly and wrong to have both IMHO. Yet I use both in Mac is every day. Coding = full screen zone mode, debugging = panel / window mode. Window mode I find pretty much useless these days Im not sure what has changed but I prefer full screen and panels windows just add an extra step and use case of organizing my windows which should be handled for me in this day and age. Side note, anyone know of something like awesome for Mac?
  - kijin 13y ago
    The traditional windows UI is perfectly capable of accommodating all of your use cases. You want to code full screen? Put your editor into full screen mode and auto-hide all the panels. You want multiple windows? Just drag windows around and resize them to your heart's satisfaction. You want neat tiles? Use the snapping feature that virtually all modern desktop environments provide, or if you're really serious about tiles, use a tiling window manager. All the alternatives I've seen so far, on the other hand, are excellent at one or two of these use cases but not all of them. So it's understandable that each and every one of them has a sizable group of vocal opponents (though not necessarily the same group of people) whose needs are being ignored.
jc4p 13y ago
Speaking of the searchable start menu - I realized last week that hitting Win + S will open up just the search area over in a right sidebar. It's made me so much happier.
- ssully 13y ago
  This is the first time I have heard of this and I am genuinely angry that this is the first I have heard of it. Maybe I should of read a short-cut doc.
- GrinningFool 13y ago
  Nice find, thanks!
vacri 13y ago
My first experience with Win8 was trying to troubleshoot a legacy software issue where the relevant guide was in .pdf form... but the pdf viewer was fullscreen. It beggared belief that someone thought that you'd never want to see another part of the OS while working on a document, on a desktop system. How did they think that this would appeal to business users?

DerpDerpDerp 13y ago

I mostly agree with your opinion about why Windows 8 was bad. A full screen, searchable start menu isn't the worst thing - though it does mean I can't be read a webpage while looking for something (which is a slight loss on usability). This is just a special case of your point about only being able to do one (or two) things at a time, when on a desktop, I really want to be able to 4 or 5. It seems like an interface designed for a tablet stapled (badly) to a completely different interface. Another problem is that they spread settings across 2 or 3 different places, hid things like shut down commands (because, you know, I'm never going to be shutting down my desktop!), and generally broke any consistency/sensibility to how the controls interface with the system.

jimmaswell 13y ago
I end up dragging things onto/onto items on to open with/off the start menu enough that that was a major annoyance having it take up the whole screen.
bunderbunder 13y ago
> A full screen, searchable start menu isn't the worst thing No, but it's a symptom of the worst thing. The worst thing is that Microsoft's UX team failed to realize that "The user's actually only interacting with this one thing right now" does not necessarily imply "This one thing is the only thing that deserves to even be visible right now."

jobu 13y ago

It seems like the thinking at Microsoft has been that "Windows should be the same on every platform" That's why they had a terrible desktop-like experience in the mobile WinCE, and a terrible mobile-like experience in desktop Windows 8. (There were also rumors a while back that Ballmer wanted to put a Windows interface on the Xbox.) Mobile and Desktop are very different use cases, and it seems like Microsoft is finally understanding that.

ape4 13y ago

Yes, if I am using a word processor and want to pull up the calculator I don't want to lose sight of the document I am working on. Its nice that the old start menu didn't hide everything. Then when I get the calculator I want to see the number from my document -- don't want it taking up my entire 25 inch screen.

bananas 13y ago
This. I did a comparison photo (I can't find it any more) with my HP50g help up next to the Windows 8.1 calendar on my 27" display. Embarrassingly bad.
stinky613 13y ago
I think if Microsoft made more of an effort to encourage users to filter the start screen by typing then this would all be less of a sticking point for people. If I have a word processor open and I want to use the calculator I press the windows key and hit c-a-l-c-<enter>. The calculator is up on the screen alongside the word processor and the desktop has been obscured for less than a second.
- dllthomas 13y ago
  Right. Winding up in front of a modern Windows computer for the first time, I was pleased to learn they'd moved things much closer to my workflow in ratpoison on Linux.

Pxtl 13y ago

Yeah, the "windowed metro apps" thing is way more interesting than the start-menu. I stubbornly insist that the idea behind a unified tablet and desktop OS is sound, it's just that windows 8 screwed the implementation with its Classic/Metro schizophrenia instead of focusing on the nature of the user's screen real-estate instead of the nature of the applications. On a desktop I have space, so use my space for an always-visible taskbar and windowed apps. On at tablet I don't have space, so make the apps always-maximized and auto-hide the taskbar. But that doesn't mean unifying the OS was a bad thing - I'd want that auto-hide always-fullscreen tablet-oriented OS on an 11" ultrabook, even if it was the "desktop" form of the OS. And likewise, give me windowing on some kind of monstrous 23" tablet thing.

lugg 13y ago
It sounds ugly and wrong to have both IMHO. Yet I use both in Mac is every day. Coding = full screen zone mode, debugging = panel / window mode. Window mode I find pretty much useless these days Im not sure what has changed but I prefer full screen and panels windows just add an extra step and use case of organizing my windows which should be handled for me in this day and age. Side note, anyone know of something like awesome for Mac?
- kijin 13y ago
  The traditional windows UI is perfectly capable of accommodating all of your use cases. You want to code full screen? Put your editor into full screen mode and auto-hide all the panels. You want multiple windows? Just drag windows around and resize them to your heart's satisfaction. You want neat tiles? Use the snapping feature that virtually all modern desktop environments provide, or if you're really serious about tiles, use a tiling window manager. All the alternatives I've seen so far, on the other hand, are excellent at one or two of these use cases but not all of them. So it's understandable that each and every one of them has a sizable group of vocal opponents (though not necessarily the same group of people) whose needs are being ignored.

jc4p 13y ago

Speaking of the searchable start menu - I realized last week that hitting Win + S will open up just the search area over in a right sidebar. It's made me so much happier.

ssully 13y ago
This is the first time I have heard of this and I am genuinely angry that this is the first I have heard of it. Maybe I should of read a short-cut doc.
GrinningFool 13y ago
Nice find, thanks!

vacri 13y ago

My first experience with Win8 was trying to troubleshoot a legacy software issue where the relevant guide was in .pdf form... but the pdf viewer was fullscreen. It beggared belief that someone thought that you'd never want to see another part of the OS while working on a document, on a desktop system. How did they think that this would appeal to business users?